Is The Sharia Barbaric? #Stoning #Theft #Murder #Apostasy || The Hot Seat by AMAU

[Sheikh Google]

the problem with Mu'tazilite is that they always favor the mind over what is writen

It's another opinion. Who are you tell them they are wrong? Once you learn about the history of Islam you will see that for 1400 years it was never just one way. they still believe in the oneness of god in Allah? Heck if you pour over classical tafsirs e.g tafsir of al-Tabari to name one, they legit had a geocentric worldview and thought the world was flat?!!! Are you going to believe what's written and still think the world is flat? come on don't insult your own intelligence.

 

[codewebsduh]

Good discussion in this thread.



Personally im against stoning

 

[Muzaffer]

It's another opinion. Who are you tell them they are wrong? Once you learn about the history of Islam you will see that for 1400 years it was never just one way. they still believe in the oneness of god in Allah? Heck if you pour over classical tafsirs e.g tafsir of al-Tabari to name one, they legit had a geocentric worldview and thought the world was flat?!!! Are you going to believe what's written and still think the world is flat? come on don't insult your own intelligence.

the truth is always one you cant have many truth islam

 

[Sheikh Google]

I am asking you, questions too. Can you answer me? What is the purpose of having laws, penalties, consequences for those who commit lewd/evil acts? To deter people from even considering doing them, no?

This question answers nothing I said and doesn't add to the point we are talking about modern society and its laws. You just placing ad hominem into the question. The question was you will not convince modern society that the laws of sharia today can be applied. I could flip the question to you and say that do you really need to cut someone's fingers/hands off to deter them from stealing? Again with the salaf it's written to interpretation and there is no leeway to say someone steals to feed their family, does that person deserve to have their fingers and hands chopped off, and thus further means that he cant help his family? Or perhaps there is a better and more nuanced approach to the matter.

 

[Muzaffer]

It's another opinion. Who are you tell them they are wrong? Once you learn about the history of Islam you will see that for 1400 years it was never just one way. they still believe in the oneness of god in Allah? Heck if you pour over classical tafsirs e.g tafsir of al-Tabari to name one, they legit had a geocentric worldview and thought the world was flat?!!! Are you going to believe what's written and still think the world is flat? come on don't insult your own intelligence.

so if I believe in Allah but I also deni most sefat, does that make me Muslim?

 

[Sheikh Google]

the truth is always one you cant have many truth islam

Like I said and what I tell every salaf. Go and learn an unbiased and objective look at Islamic history and you will understand that this is just another version or way of looking at the deen. There were many different versions of power during different dynasties. Heck even within the salafs they gaalify themselves and can't even agree with each other. What is the true Islam is different for all 2 billion Muslims across the world. However, a salaf will say that everyone else is wrong and he is right. It's madness when you look at it.

 

[Sheikh Google]

so if I believe in Allah but I also deni most sefat, does that make me Muslim?

Am I Allah? I cant gaalify nobody but a salaf would 100% call takfir on me and the majority of Muslims and call them gaal.

 

[Kool-Aid]

Cut of a finger/hand for theft

We need this in the west, thieves are the worst. Sadly, will never happen

 

[Muzaffer]

It's another opinion. Who are you tell them they are wrong? Once you learn about the history of Islam you will see that for 1400 years it was never just one way. they still believe in the oneness of god in Allah? Heck if you pour over classical tafsirs e.g tafsir of al-Tabari to name one, they legit had a geocentric worldview and thought the world was flat?!!! Are you going to believe what's written and still think the world is flat? come on don't insult your own intelligence.

it the matter of earth flat the mind have a stronger claim.

 

[Muzaffer]

Am I Allah? I cant gaalify nobody but a salaf would 100% call takfir on me and the majority of Muslims and call them gaal.

The Salafists do not declare anyone a disbeliever until the proof is established on him

btw I'm not salafi

 

[Sheikh Google]

it the matter of earth flat the mind have a stronger claim.

I am confused about what you mean by this. Believe me, I have met salafs who literally believe the earth is flat because they take scriptures word for word. When you tell them the Islamic historical context of the tafsirs that state this. They turn their brains off and decide nope because ibn abbas was a close sahaba of the prophet and a cousin and his tafsir builds upon the earth is flat then nope we must believe that. Its madness.

 

[Muzaffer]

I am confused about what you mean by this. Believe me, I have met salafs who literally believe the earth is flat because they take scriptures word for word. When you tell them the Islamic historical context of the tafsirs that state this. They turn their brains off and decide nope because ibn abbas was a close sahaba of the prophet and a cousin and his tafsir builds upon the earth is flat then nope we must believe that. Its madness.

I'm mean we will bring both the mind and what is written and see who have more proof and we will take it.

some radicals always take hadiths even if they are weak

and mutazilah take mind always

but I balance between them

 

[Ismail99]

If you need the deen to tell you to not rape someone then boy I can't even tell you anything else.

I don't want you to tell me anything.

 

[Sheikh Google]

I'm mean we will bring both the mind and what is written and see who have more proof and we will take it.

some radicals always take hadiths even if they are weak

and mutazilah take mind always

but I balance between them

Fair enough you are on the right path at least your mind is open and you can take on other opinions. I would just tell you to delve into the history of Islam you will learn so much and understand how the deen has evolved over the last 1400 years. It might be boring if you don't like history-related stuff like me but hey it is what it is.

 

[Liban89]

النقل قبل العقل is part of Islam but its depend on the way you see explain it if what is written have a strong claim than mind then we would definitely choose what is written but if the mind has a stronger claim than what is written then we will take mind, it's impossible to both have a strong claim at the same time.

but to always taking favoring the mind over what is written is the way of mutazilah which are dangerous groups which Wahabis and ahlu sunnah was jama'ah ( Ash'aris and Maturidi ) warn people from them

According to salafis the concept is bid'ah, they believe one should never use critical thinking at all. Their way is always النقل قبل العقل

 

[Sheikh Google]

I don't want you to tell me anything.

I don't mean to be rude but I don't know how young you are. All jokes aside as someone who went down the salaf pathway when I was younger and lost in life. You will not find any intelligence or reason down this pathway only hate and a life devoid of anything with critical thinking. Allah gave you a mind and taking the fikrah of others and being a brain-dead zombie helps no one. Nothing worse than being a prisoner in your own mind.

 

[Abba Sadacha]

This question answers nothing I said and doesn't add to the point we are talking about modern society and its laws. You just placing ad hominem into the question. The question was you will not convince modern society that the laws of sharia today can be applied. I could flip the question to you and say that do you really need to cut someone's fingers/hands off to deter them from stealing? Again with the salaf it's written to interpretation and there is no leeway to say someone steals to feed their family, does that person deserve to have their fingers and hands chopped off, and thus further means that he cant help his family? Or perhaps there is a better and more nuanced approach to the matter.

Why do care about ''modern society,'' anyway?
What is ''modern society''? Disbelievers, who will eventually be fuel for the fire?
Disbelievers, who think they have no purpose in life, other than partying, fornicating like animals, until they reach the after-life, and they're full of regret, but by then, it'll be too late?
Disbelievers who have high rates of suicide, homelessness, corruption, theft, rape, etc?
Oh, okay cool!

You won't get your hands cut if you do not steal, right? And if you knew such laws existed, you'd think twice, perhaps THRICE before stealing, right? Oh btw, if you steal due to hunger, genuine hunger...you are excused in the Sha'riah, did you know that? That's why welfare, is an Islamic concept, that non-Muslims took, as well. Charity, sadaqah, etc, these things ensure no one, NO ONE goes without their basic needs, it's the responsibility of the state and the rich....

 

[Liban89]

If we use our minds then everybody can come up with their own ideas. What if I like raping boys? Should I do it because my mind tells me it's ok

Raping kids is sick and disgusting including girls, we are talking salafi version of islam and how the very problematic concept paves the way for close minded ideas like stoning and marrying girls at any age.

 

[Sheikh Google]

Why do care about ''modern society,'' anyway?
What is ''modern society''? Disbelievers, who will eventually be fuel for the fire?
Disbelievers, who think they have no purpose in life, other than partying, fornicating like animals, until they reach the after-life, and they're full of regret, but by then, it'll be too late?
Disbelievers who have high rates of suicide, homelessness, corruption, theft, rape, etc?
Oh, okay cool!

You won't get your hands cut if you do not steal, right? And if you knew such laws existed, you'd think twice, perhaps THRICE before stealing, right? Oh btw, if you steal due to hunger, genuine hunger...you are excused in the Sha'riah, did you know that? That's why welfare, is an Islamic concept, that non-Muslims took, as well. Charity, sadaqah, etc, these things ensure no one, NO ONE goes without their basic needs, it's the responsibility of the state and the rich....

The same society he lives in and is posting a comment from and on a forum where he is allowed to express his opinion. I wouldn't be surprised if your version of the perfect society is living like a bedouin in a desert in the 9th century.

Edit: Everything to a salaf is the big bad gaal. Like some kind of bogeyman who hides under the bed. These same "gaal" gave us asylum, healthcare, housing and allowed me to pursue a free education and better my life for myself and my family. The same salafs and wahabs who promote this hateful ideology are to busy bombing other Muslims in a never-ending war in Yemen. Heck, you go to a Somali in Somalia and offer him a visa to either an Arab country or the west, he will choose the west every time.

 

[Kool-Aid]

The same society he lives in and is posting a comment from and on a forum where he is allowed to express his opinion. I wouldn't be surprised if your version of the perfect society is living like a bedouin in a desert in the 9th century.

Are you against sharia law in Muslim countries or just the west