Is there any truth to this myth of Oromos living in northern Somalia?

[Factz]

No mention of Somalis during Amda Seyon yet you want to claim Ifat lol. We only find the Simur during emperor ishaq, and why am i not surprised your clan is named after a habasha king

I claim Ifat? Ethiopian scholars themselves claim it as a Somali Sultanate. Read the sources I posted, Harla people called Somalis "Simur". There was no Isaaq emperor nor were they named after the Habesha king. Man you are the biggest bullshit I've ever came across with, I speak to knowledgeable Hararis and none of them say some crazy shit like you. You need to chew some khaat because you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about. Your trolling skills are in a par with Grant.

Harla people referred Somalis as their ally and had a name for them called "Simur".

Another Ethiopian source states Ifat Sultanate was a Somali Sultanate.

Now don't bother wasting my time you troll.

 

[Young Popeye]

I claim Ifat? Ethiopian scholars themselves claim it as a Somali Sultanate. Read the sources I posted, Harla people called Somalis "Simur". There was no Isaaq emperor nor were they named after the Habesha king. Man you are the biggest bullshit I've ever came across with, I speak to knowledgeable Hararis and none of them say some crazy shit like you. You need to chew some khaat because you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about. Your trolling skills are in a par with Grant.

Harla people referred Somalis as their ally and had a name for them called "Simur".

Another Ethiopian source states Ifat Sultanate was a Somali Sultanate.

Now don't bother wasting my time you troll.

The simur submitted to the empror issaq that is the start of the issaq clan

 

[Factz]

The simur submitted to the empror issaq that is the start of the issaq clan

Yeshaq I is an Abyssinian emperor Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshaq_I

How the f*ck does that have to do with Isaaq? They were mentioned much earlier during Yusuf bin Ahmad al-Kawneyn.

My lord you have 0 knowledge of history, just continue chewing your khaat.

 

[Young Popeye]

Yeshaq I is an Abyssinian emperor Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshaq_I

How the f*ck does that have to do with Isaaq? They were mentioned much earlier during Yusuf bin Ahmad al-Kawneyn.

My lord you have 0 knowledge of history, just continue chewing your khaat.

no sources of simur before issaq royals entering zeila, so u have lost the debate already.

 

[Factz]

no sources of simur before issaq royals entering zeila, so u have lost the debate already.

I wasn't talking about Isaaq idiot. I was talking about Somalis always owning Zeila according to medieval historians who visited Zeila so you have no excuse and many sources even Ethiopian documents which I showed stated Ifat Sultanate was a Somali Sultanate, now swahollow those facts Harari boy

 

[Young Popeye]

I wasn't talking about Isaaq idiot. I was talking about Somalis always owning Zeila according to medieval historians who visited Zeila so you have no excuse and many sources even Ethiopian documents which I showed stated Ifat Sultanate was a Somali Sultanate, now swahollow those facts Harari boy

The Hararis in Somaliland fighting for ifat, no sign of simur https://books.google.ca/books?id=zp...6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=harla amda seyon&f=false

 

[Factz]

The Hararis in Somaliland fighting for ifat, no sign of simur https://books.google.ca/books?id=zpYBD3bzW1wC&pg=PA45&dq=harla+amda+seyon&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjfmZe5yvDcAhVuRN8KHf5jD5YQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=harla amda seyon&f=false

Somalis were never called Simur though, that is a nickname from Harla. I don't like repeating myself again but what was the capital of Ifat Sultanate? Zeila correct?

According to Al-Yaquubi, Ibn Said, Ibn Battuta, Ibn Usman and others who visited Zeila confirmed it a Somali dominated city and I don't care what army you show because that book also talks about Somali forces of Ifat Sultanate fighting Yeshaq I forces.

So far you haven't proven shit. Somali forces deserted to Tanzania, do you see us claiming Tanzania?

 

[Young Popeye]

Somalis were never called Simur though, that is a nickname from Harla. I don't like repeating myself again but what was the capital of Ifat Sultanate? Zeila correct?

According to Al-Yaquubi, Ibn Said, Ibn Battuta, Ibn Usman and others who visited Zeila confirmed it a Somali dominated city and I don't care what army you show because that book also talks about Somali forces of Ifat Sultanate fighting Yeshaq I forces.

So far you haven't proven shit. Somali forces deserted to Tanzania, do you see us claiming Tanzania?

Lets see what the judges have to say....

 

[Factz]

Lets see what the judges have to say....

You basically trolled the whole time. This is not even classed as a debate. You were buried long time ago.


I didn't even bother using all my sources. A couple was enough to debunk you and they were all Ethiopian sources.

 

[Young Popeye]

You basically trolled the whole time. This is not even classed as a debate. You were buried long time ago.


I didn't even bother using all my sources. A couple was enough to debunk you.

currently on a victory parade not taking any calls atm.

 

[Zuzu5]

This is one of those instances where I believe genetics, Herbert S. Lewis, and the logic of the rivers and the camels."All the evidence is for the reverse." Apollo has this one nailed.


https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...e-probably-emerged-in-southern-somalia.44344/


Contact
ApolloUseful idiotStaff MemberModerator
Joined:
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Messages:
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Factz: "It still doesn't make sense for ancient Somalis to move from fertile lands to non-fertile lands when they could've migrated to more fertile lands like Kenya and Tanzania. I'm sorry but this theory is absurd, shambolic and there is no evidence to support this basis."


Apollo: "They went North after the camel was introduced.

U6a2 is common marker shared between Copts and Bejas/Eritreans/Agaws not found in Somalis. It looks like a marker of the Puntites.

http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/u6a2_genbank_sequences.htm

IMO, Somalis weren't part of Punt.

Anyone with a 23andMe account can confirm. Almost no Somalis have U6a2."

Apollo, Jun 21, 2018Report
#

"Punt was in Eritrea and North Ethiopia and likely some geneflow happened between them and the Egyptians that Somalis weren't involved in (at least U6a2, probably others if I look into it).

The Somali Punt claims are cringy revisionist history."


NourUgaas @ Factz:

"You are right, Somalis originated from the North. There is no doubt about that. Southern Somalia was colonised by Somalis."

Apollo: "All the evidence is for the reverse."

I have put information that relates to this topic on this site before, but Apollo has rejected it and even deleted my thread. You see, I dont agree with what @Apollo says.

"The distinctive character of the Ist Dynasty, which separates it from all that went before, is the conquest and the union of the whole land of Egypt. It became thus subject to the falcon-bearing tribe of Horus, which was the natural enemy of the Aumu, the Set-bearing tribe. This falcon tribe had certainly originated in Elam, as indicated by the hero and lions on the Araq Knife handle. They went down the Persian Gulf and settled in the 'Horn of Africa'. There they named the 'Land of Punt', sacred to later Egyptians as the source of the race…Those who went up the Red Sea formed the dynastic invaders of Egypt, entering by the Qoceir-Koptos road. Others went on to Syria and founded Tyre, Sidon and Aradus named after their home islands in the Persian Gulf." - The Archaeology of the Arabian Gulf by Michael Rice


Everyone knows the kingdom of a punt is older than the kingdom of kush that invaded Egypt, that's a just irrefutable fact.



@Grant I hardly talk on this site, but your misleading information and oblivious ignorance of our history shouldnt be left unjustified.

Dunning-Kruger effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

 

[Grant]

Once again exposing your reading comprehension. I already pinpointed every bullshit you stated and debunked them with authentic sources. Now you want to change the subject? Usual Grant once he's cornered with facts.

This is a return to the subject and not a change in it. At some point you will have to stop running away and deal with reality.


https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...yone-have-more-information-on-it.45990/page-2

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/why-islam-is-a-blessing-for-men.46027/page-9#post-1259488

 

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

Apollos theory, which I happen to agree with, is regarding the proto-Somalis or the first Somali proper several thousand years ago, not recent clans. That is an important clarification to note.

 

[Zuzu5]

This is one of those instances where I believe genetics, Herbert S. Lewis, and the logic of the rivers and the camels."All the evidence is for the reverse." Apollo has this one nailed.


https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...e-probably-emerged-in-southern-somalia.44344/


Contact
ApolloUseful idiotStaff MemberModerator
Joined:
Aug 25, 2015
Messages:
12,095
Ratings:
+16,499
Factz: "It still doesn't make sense for ancient Somalis to move from fertile lands to non-fertile lands when they could've migrated to more fertile lands like Kenya and Tanzania. I'm sorry but this theory is absurd, shambolic and there is no evidence to support this basis."


Apollo: "They went North after the camel was introduced.

U6a2 is common marker shared between Copts and Bejas/Eritreans/Agaws not found in Somalis. It looks like a marker of the Puntites.

http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/u6a2_genbank_sequences.htm

IMO, Somalis weren't part of Punt.

Anyone with a 23andMe account can confirm. Almost no Somalis have U6a2."

Apollo, Jun 21, 2018Report
#

"Punt was in Eritrea and North Ethiopia and likely some geneflow happened between them and the Egyptians that Somalis weren't involved in (at least U6a2, probably others if I look into it).

The Somali Punt claims are cringy revisionist history."


NourUgaas @ Factz:

"You are right, Somalis originated from the North. There is no doubt about that. Southern Somalia was colonised by Somalis."

Apollo: "All the evidence is for the reverse."

I just realized you used the mtDNA U6a2 to say disprove Somalis being the puntites. Wow @Grant your confounding ignorance is too much. Did you really say "U6a2", which is most common in the North-West AFRICA is a punt marker????? I'm flabbergasted.



@Factz why do you even debate with this Somali hater?? This dude is FUCKING CRAZY!

 

[esmailxxx]

im pretty sure that hargeisa was a oromo city ina adeer

Never was

 

[esmailxxx]

H

I just realized you used the mtDNA U6a2 to say disprove Somalis being the puntites. Wow @Grant your confounding ignorance is too much. Did you really say "U6a2", which is most common in the North-West AFRICA is a punt marker????? I'm flabbergasted.



@Factz why do you even debate with this Somali hater?? This dude is FUCKING CRAZY!

He is against ethnic somalis

 

[Grant]

I just realized you used the mtDNA U6a2 to say disprove Somalis being the puntites. Wow @Grant your confounding ignorance is too much. Did you really say "U6a2", which is most common in the North-West AFRICA is a punt marker????? I'm flabbergasted.



@Factz why do you even debate with this Somali hater?? This dude is FUCKING CRAZY!

Go back and test your reading comprehension again. That was Apollo.


"Apollo: "They went North after the camel was introduced.

U6a2 is common marker shared between Copts and Bejas/Eritreans/Agaws not found in Somalis. It looks like a marker of the Puntites."

And I don't see anything about mt.

 

[Grant]

H

He is against ethnic somalis

.


Still into spreading misinformation I see.

 

[Zuzu5]

Go back and test your reading comprehension again. That was Apollo.


"Apollo: "They went North after the camel was introduced.

U6a2 is common marker shared between Copts and Bejas/Eritreans/Agaws not found in Somalis. It looks like a marker of the Puntites."

And I don't see anything about mt.

"Apollo has this one nailed"


Right, you weren't agreeing with him at all. U6a is a Maghreb/west African mt.

• U6
  • U6a'b'd
    • U6a: found in western and northern Africa, western Europe, the Middle East and the Horn of Africa
      • U6a1:
        • U6a1a: found in the Maghreb, Iberia and southern Italy
        • U6a1b: found in the Maghreb, Iberia, Italy, France, Belgium and Scandinavia / found in Late Paleolithic Morocco
      • U6a2
        • U6a2a: found in Ethiopia
        • U6a2b: found in Ethiopia and the Arabian peninsula
        • U6a2c: found in Armenia, Egypt and Portugal
      • U6a3
        • U6a3a: found in the Maghreb and Iberia
          • U6a3a1: found in the Maghreb, Iberia and Finland
          • U6a3a2: found in the Maghreb, Iberia and Germany
        • U6a3c: found in Ghana
        • U6a3d: found in Egypt and Palestine
        • U6a3e: found in the Maghreb and Iberia
        • U6a3f: found in Guinea-Bissau, Burkina Faso and Nigeria
      • U6a4: found in Iraq and Italy
      • U6a5: found in the Maghreb, Iberia, Italy, Hungary, Chad, Cameroon and Nigeria
        • U6a5a
        • U6a5b
      • U6a6
        • U6a6a: found in Morocco
        • U6a6b: found in Morocco and Tunisia / found in Late Paleolithic Morocco
      • U6a7: found in Late Paleolithic Morocco
        • U6a7a
          • U6a7a1: found in France, Italy and Mauritania
            • U6a7a1a: found among the Acadians
            • U6a7a1b: found among Sephardic Jews
          • U6a7a2: found in Britain
        • U6a7b: found in Algeria, Tunisia, France and Britain / found in Late Paleolithic Morocco
        • U6a7c: found in Tunisia
      • U6a8: found in the Maghreb
        • U6a8a: found in the Maghreb
        • U6a8b: found in the Maghreb and Spain
      • U6b'd
      • U6b: found mostly in southwest Asia, West Africa and Iberia
        • U6b1: found in northern Spain and the Canaries
        • U6b2: found in Morocco and Spain
        • U6b3: found in Morocco, Portugal and Spain
      • U6d: found mostly in the Maghreb and Iberia
        • U6d1: found mostly in the Maghreb
          • U6d1a: found in Britain
          • U6d1b: found in the Maghreb and southern Italy
        • U6d2: found in Algeria and Ethiopia
        • U6d3: found in Morocco, Portugal and Spain
  • U6c : found mostly in the northern Maghreb and southwest Europe
    • U6c1: found in Italy and the Canaries
    • U6c2: found in Morocco and France

This is the puntite "marker". Smh, Take your BS somewhere else dude.

 

[Grant]

"Apollo has this one nailed"


Right, you weren't agreeing with him at all. U6a is a Maghreb/west African mt.

• U6
  • U6a'b'd
    • U6a: found in western and northern Africa, western Europe, the Middle East and the Horn of Africa
      • U6a1:
        • U6a1a: found in the Maghreb, Iberia and southern Italy
        • U6a1b: found in the Maghreb, Iberia, Italy, France, Belgium and Scandinavia / found in Late Paleolithic Morocco
      • U6a2
        • U6a2a: found in Ethiopia
        • U6a2b: found in Ethiopia and the Arabian peninsula
        • U6a2c: found in Armenia, Egypt and Portugal
      • U6a3
        • U6a3a: found in the Maghreb and Iberia
          • U6a3a1: found in the Maghreb, Iberia and Finland
          • U6a3a2: found in the Maghreb, Iberia and Germany
        • U6a3c: found in Ghana
        • U6a3d: found in Egypt and Palestine
        • U6a3e: found in the Maghreb and Iberia
        • U6a3f: found in Guinea-Bissau, Burkina Faso and Nigeria
      • U6a4: found in Iraq and Italy
      • U6a5: found in the Maghreb, Iberia, Italy, Hungary, Chad, Cameroon and Nigeria
        • U6a5a
        • U6a5b
      • U6a6
        • U6a6a: found in Morocco
        • U6a6b: found in Morocco and Tunisia / found in Late Paleolithic Morocco
      • U6a7: found in Late Paleolithic Morocco
        • U6a7a
          • U6a7a1: found in France, Italy and Mauritania
            • U6a7a1a: found among the Acadians
            • U6a7a1b: found among Sephardic Jews
          • U6a7a2: found in Britain
        • U6a7b: found in Algeria, Tunisia, France and Britain / found in Late Paleolithic Morocco
        • U6a7c: found in Tunisia
      • U6a8: found in the Maghreb
        • U6a8a: found in the Maghreb
        • U6a8b: found in the Maghreb and Spain
      • U6b'd
      • U6b: found mostly in southwest Asia, West Africa and Iberia
        • U6b1: found in northern Spain and the Canaries
        • U6b2: found in Morocco and Spain
        • U6b3: found in Morocco, Portugal and Spain
      • U6d: found mostly in the Maghreb and Iberia
        • U6d1: found mostly in the Maghreb
          • U6d1a: found in Britain
          • U6d1b: found in the Maghreb and southern Italy
        • U6d2: found in Algeria and Ethiopia
        • U6d3: found in Morocco, Portugal and Spain
  • U6c : found mostly in the northern Maghreb and southwest Europe
    • U6c1: found in Italy and the Canaries
    • U6c2: found in Morocco and France

This is the puntite "marker". Smh, Take your BS somewhere else dude.

I don't think you understand Apollo. Somalis DON"T have the marker, which IS found in Ethiopians. I bow to his expertise but note this:

https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-14-109

U6a2

• "U6a2a: found in Ethiopia"

Subclade- location- date of origin

U6a2b Ethiopia 8600

U6a2a1a Ethiopia 8600

U6a5a West Africa 8600

U6a5b Sub-Saharan Africa 7200

U6a3f Sub-Saharan Africa 6500

U6a2a1b Ethiopia 5900

U6a2b1 Ethiopia 5200

------------------------------------------------

These are all specific subclades of U6a that do not relate to other areas. You are welcome to your opinion, but I think Apollo is on to something. At the very least, U6a2 distinguishes Somalis from Ethiopians. I do admit that the "Puntite" bit requires a reading of the archaeology of the Gash river basin, which you should look into..

Take up your fight with Apollo. I am not a good surrogate.