You do know the lady who authored this book is married to a Puntite right? Compagnon has 0 ties to any clan btw.
Isaaq genocide narrative
- Thread starter Midas
- Start date
And? Barre's clan wasn't from Puntland lol
You brought out a source that believed that Morgan’s letter was fake. That lady’s writings can’t be taken as 100% truth considering she is married to one of Morgan’s clansmen. Why are you deflecting onto Siad lmfao
A genocide is an act committed with the intent to wipe out a particular group, even within inter-ethnic conflicts. In the latter part of his rule, Siad Barre's intentions became clear: he sought to eliminate certain clans and replace them with clans more loyal to him.
Unionism that relies on denial is misguided, yet modern Somali historical discussions often devolve into blame games. I remember when @Itsnotthateasy vehemently denied the systemic violence committed by the SNM against the Gadabuursi.
These conversations feel disingenuous, as people change their stance depending on the topic. When discussing the mass killings by the USC upon entering Mogadishu, or Morgan's atrocities against the Raxanweyn, the narrative quickly shifts to either exaggerate or downplay the events to fit a particular agenda.
Unionism that relies on denial is misguided, yet modern Somali historical discussions often devolve into blame games. I remember when @Itsnotthateasy vehemently denied the systemic violence committed by the SNM against the Gadabuursi.
These conversations feel disingenuous, as people change their stance depending on the topic. When discussing the mass killings by the USC upon entering Mogadishu, or Morgan's atrocities against the Raxanweyn, the narrative quickly shifts to either exaggerate or downplay the events to fit a particular agenda.
Denial of genocide and actively trying to debunk one is not the same thing. Just take a read through this thread, have you ever seen anything like this on other ones? This is just gaslighting
Its irrelevant aka genetic fallacy
Lmfaooooo
You compared her writings to Compagnon even though they aren’t close at all. Compagnon was actively working with the UN in 1991, even in his writings at the time he said that SL doesn’t control 30% of its claimed territory and it very unlikely to ever get independence. Where was she?
This lady has no writings on Somalia before her marriage (which was post 1991), and her only other writings on the country are focused on Somali music, of which she has even said she is more knowledgable on.
Hopefully you can actually respond to everything I say this time instead of cutting out 1/2 sentences and moving the goalposts
You tried to discredit her by saying she married someone of a certain clan lol.
Try not to engage in fallacies first and actually debunk what she said.
Morgan has really done a number on y’all, maybe even more than afweyne
Somalilanders bore the burnt of the 1977 war. The main battlefront during the war was on Somaliland's border. They made up a significant portion of the soldiers who fought against the Ethiopians to free Somali Galbeed. They, just as the rest of Somalis, were swept away by the emotions and danced to the beat the Kacaan drum to free their Somali walaalos against the colonizers. Somalianders were using their own personal property, such as vehicles and their funds to fight in the war. They lost many lives. The impact this war had on Somalilanders was far greater than any other Somali group in Somalia at the time.
Can’t call them qabilist, they welcomed Ogaden refugees in their lands, despite the dangers this could bring.
I noticed that some clans are very straight forward, the ones in british Somaliland that weren't brutally colonized and subjugated are more straight forward talking. The Italian Somaliland clans are all two-faced they'll claim unity while actually having a real problem with certain groups, that's why they are very dangerous. They won't say it directly but they'll come up with these bullshit arguments. They also adopt foreign ideologies and often mix it with qabil. Everything they come up with is a disaster from Kacaan to Alshabaab.
The best of them is PL and they are very shifty, the rest is well we already seen historically and presently what they are about.
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Tbh I disagree I think its more Xamar politics, very slimy game where people play dirty tricks against each other, you see that every election season. Who’s going to ally with who for certain positions.
People who have homelands to go back to are more straight-forward in sompol, they have nothing to lose by going for big jobs but they don’t usually have success because you can’t beat the locals at their game.
Those guys are all snaking eachother too, that's why there's no country. Xamar politics is just artificial.
Some of them even snake thier own group, those are the ones with no homelands.
It's not a good idea to mix with that.
The problem wasn't the refugees whom we have supported and welcomed but the regime scheme giving those registered refuges govt posts in our lands and forcefully settling them while also allowing their miltia to roam around and police in rural areas like they were the "actual" authority.
Shut up the regime didn't care about us as it set discriminatory polices against us which is why all the high ranking and lower officers in the military including civil servants and former ministers have defected to the opposition because that's what we demanded and diaspora communities played a role in that as they're the ones who have helped them to leave safely from that place.
It was our towns that Ethiopian derg jets used to fly over and bomb it not the south or any area close to Xamar
You guys sound like lunatics. Now i am more convinced of what actually happened.
I haven't seen a report of WSLF militia men roaming free, but i have seen reports of refugee camps defending themselves against attacks by the SNM militia.
They not only attacked refugee camps but they kidnapped and held hostage aid worker. And even hijacked aid shipment meant to go to those camps.
If many former SNM members and even former presidents had high ranking positions in the military and in the government. Then that discrimination narrative makes no sense. It's convenient to claim discrimination especially when those same people would act like double agents on behalf of Ethiopia , try to conspire against the government, or engaging exploitation/corruption and be dismissed for it. Then there are those who supported the government, carried out its orders and then welcomed by SNM/Somaliland after.
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You guys sound like lunatics. Now i am more convinced of what actually happened.
I haven't seen a report of WSLF militia men roaming free, but i have seen reports of refugee camps defending themselves against attacks by the SNM militia.
They not only attacked refugee camps but they kidnapped and held hostage aid worker. And even hijacked aid shipment meant to go to those camps.
If many former SNM members and even former presidents had high ranking positions in the military and in the government. Then that discrimination narrative makes no sense. It's convenient to claim discrimination especially when those same people would act like double agents on behalf of Ethiopia , try to conspire against the government, or engaging exploitation/corruption and be dismissed for it. Then there are those who supported the government, carried out its orders and then welcomed by SNM/Somaliland after.
By government are you referring to the US-proxy Kacaan regime?
Too much effort going into discussing foreign proxy wars in this region.
Seperate local Somalilanders/Isaaqs from SNM and those who support their betrayals
SNM were not born out of local public sentiment and rebellion of any kind. They were foreign proxy militia group that attacked, invaded and went to war against their own community in collaboration with a foreign enemy.
So when i say qabilist i am aiming at the person i was responding to not the average Somalilander , who actually complained about the SNM and their leadership turning their lives upside down
''The chiefs accussed the SNM Leadership "especially the intellectualys" in particular Mohammed Silanyo of having plunged the North into desolation and chaos, while the themselves were living comfortably abroad without being able to offer any alternative to the Barre regime"
Also they weren't motivated by Isaaq clan agenda's either, these were criminals and traitors who were driven by selfish interests and desires which was exploited by foreign enemies.
When the government was outsted those groups all devolved into qabilist thugs because they had zero plan, regime alternative or united vision. All they had was their close familial ties which they exploited, the foreign weapons & funds they used to brutalize the populous to get them to comply and couldn't attract any supporters outside their narrow base despite their attempts.
The Kacaan regime was the opposite of a proxy. They were neither a soviet or a US asset or worked on their behalf.
The government manipulated both the soviet and the united states for their own benefit. They would seek to restrict their influence as well and was distrustful of foreigners in general.
Also for the longest time Siad Barre saw US as threat to his regime
You can see more on how far the regime went to combat US inflitration and destabilization efforts here in this post where i explained how both the United States and Soviet saw the Somali regime as a threat to their expansionist interests in the Indian Ocean and on the Red Sea and sought to replace it by backing various coup attempts even.
When the government was outsted those groups all devolved into qabilist thugs because they had zero plan, regime alternative or united vision. All they had was their close familial ties which they exploited, the foreign weapons & funds they used to brutalize the populous to get them to comply and couldn't attract any supporters outside their narrow base despite their attempts.
By government are you referring to the US-proxy Kacaan regime?
Too much effort going into discussing foreign proxy wars in this region.
The Kacaan regime was the opposite of a proxy. They were neither a soviet or a US asset or worked on their behalf.
The government manipulated both the soviet and the united states for their own benefit. They would seek to restrict their influence as well and was distrustful of foreigners in general.
Also for the longest time Siad Barre saw US as threat to his regime
You can see more on how far the regime went to combat US inflitration and destabilization efforts here in this post where i explained how both the United States and Soviet saw the Somali regime as a threat to their expansionist interests in the Indian Ocean and on the Red Sea and sought to replace it by backing various coup attempts even.
The Kacaan government was also seen as a threat (not just ICU) by Ethiopia/Isreal and a threat to Soviets ambitions to expand into the red sea , but the US even though they dislked the Kacaan regime preferred it at time over Ethiopia because they were trying to limit Soviet and communist influence in the region, they would switch over to Ethiopia's side in a heartbeat if they re-aligned themselves back with them.
Because before this the United States and Somalias relations deteriorated following the coup in 1969. Somalia went far in beyond to counter and limit US infiltration in the Indian ocean.
Also they weren't motivated by Isaaq clan agenda's either, these were criminals and traitors who were driven by selfish interests and desires which was exploited by foreign enemies.
When the government was outsted those groups all devolved into qabilist thugs because they had zero plan, regime alternative or united vision. All they had was their close familial ties which they exploited, the foreign weapons & funds they used to brutalize the populous to get them to comply and couldn't attract any supporters outside their narrow base despite their attempts.
The Kacaan regime was the opposite of proxy. They were neither a soviet or a US asset or worked on their behalf.
The government manipulated both the soviet and the united states for their own benefit. They would seek to restrict their influence as well and was distrustful of foreigners in general.
Also for the longest time Siad Barre saw US as threat to his regime
You can see more on how far the regime went to combat US inflitration and destabilization efforts here
By the late eighties Siad had prayed to Jesus to become a US puppet and had their blessing, from the horses mouth:
The US Ambassador to Somalia, Frank Crigler:
"The US was already identified with the government, it didn't pick sides it was with the government"
US-proxy regime.
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