Isaaq genocide narrative

[Midas]

I'm not here to talk about the political aspect. Siad did obviously kill a lot of issaqs. But recently watched what happned in plaestnia and lascanood has me wondering. Even the lowest estimates you often here from people talking about the isaaq genocide is 50,000 people. That came mainly from bombing the cities. But when you think about that number that's about how many people died in palestine in the first few months( it's obviously higher now) where they were subjected to massive bombing everyday and they couldn't escape Gaza. How would siad barre who obviously didn't have as many bombs been able to kill that many people ? Especially when they woukd have been able to flee right after the first couple bombs. I mean look how everybody in lascanood was gone within a few days. Yet siad barre was able to kill that many people that quickly? It doesn't make sense

 

[The Oponian Guild]

I'm not here to talk about the political aspect. Siad did obviously kill a lot of issaqs. But recently watched what happned in plaestnia and lascanood has me wondering. Even the lowest estimates you often here from people talking about the isaaq genocide is 50,000 people. That came mainly from bombing the cities. But when you think about that number that's about how many people died in palestine in the first few months( it's obviously higher now) where they were subjected to massive bombing everyday and they couldn't escape Gaza. How would siad barre who obviously didn't have as many bombs been able to kill that many people ? Especially when they woukd have been able to flee right after the first couple bombs. I mean look how everybody in lascanood was gone within a few days. Yet siad barre was able to kill that many people that quickly? It doesn't make sense

He had jets and tanks and whatnot, he also had a large force stationed in the northwest. Also I think Siad Barre wanted them pacified but his underlings interpreted his orders differently and began using ferocious methods and tactics, and most of them being from clans that had a bone to pick with the Isaaq over unsettled scores.

 

[Hilmaam]

Population of city was 90k back then I believe. 50k would be next level massacre.

whole country population was 2 million back then. I don’t even think 50kndied from violence whole civil war. Somalis exaggerate alot

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

I question those numbers aswell, like you said even gaza which has been completely razed and undergoing daily bombings they dont have a number that high. So that brings up the question, where is this figure of 50,000 coming from? And how could other somalis be complacent in this, especially people who were isaaq who were fighting for the gov. It dosent make sense in my opinion, I could be wrong aswell but still questioning this. I mean the SNM were being funded by various sources and only caused instability. Most isaaqs back then didnt even support it

 

[Midas]

He had jets and tanks and whatnot, he also had a large force stationed in the northwest. Also I think Siad Barre wanted them pacified but his underlings interpreted his orders differently and began using ferocious methods and tactics, and most of them being from clans that had a bone to pick with the Isaaq over unsettled scores.

Yeah but how can you kill that many people by bombing a city when most people can flee. I think even in the civil war in the early to mid 90s most people that died were because of starvation. The amount actually killed probably wasn't much larger than 50-100k . So how could siad barre actually kill that many?

 

[Arabsiyawi]

Yeah but how can you kill that many people by bombing a city when most people can flee. I think even in the civil war in the early to mid 90s most people that died were because of starvation. The amount actually killed probably wasn't much larger than 50-100k . So how could siad barre actually kill that many?

You guys are clearly clueless.
50k are the most conservative estimates. People were prevented from leaving Hargeisa if they were isaaqs while being under attacks. Funny thing is, no one ever stated that these were only the numbers of people killed in Hargeisa.
Burco was also bombed, massacres happened all over, even in Xamar.

 

[Midas]

You guys are clearly clueless.
50k are the most conservative estimates. People were prevented from leaving Hargeisa if they were isaaqs while being under attacks. Funny thing is, no one ever stated that these were only the numbers of people killed in Hargeisa.
Burco was also bombed, massacres happened all over, even in Xamar.

I dont trust the Wikipedia page but even they mentioned from a newspaper quote about how quickly people fled. Yeah but rhe idea is that isaaqs were genocide becuase they bombed the 3 cities in the north . But if you look at conflicts around the world you realize how hard it is to kill that many people. Especially since this isn't a situation where isaasqa are surrounded and make up a tiny minority in where they live. The north is a huge region. On top of there being the snm which had weapons and could fight back. Look at the civilian death toll of the syrian war that had far more advanced weapons and missiles and has been going on for 13 years.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

I dont trust the Wikipedia page but even they mentioned from a newspaper quote about how quickly people fled. Yeah but rhe idea is that isaaqs were genocide becuase they bombed the 3 cities in the north . But if you look at conflicts around the world you realize how hard it is to kill that many people. Especially since this isn't a situation where isaasqa are surrounded and make up a tiny minority in where they live. The north is a huge region. On top of there being the snm which had weapons and could fight back. Look at the civilian death toll of the syrian war that had far more advanced weapons and missiles and has been going on for 13 years.

People don’t only die from straight bullets or bombardment. Famine, lack of medications due to blockades, diseases like malaria spreading across all refugee camps. It was something extremely common for people to die walking on land mines planted around the cities…
A genocide isn’t about how many people die btw.

 

[Zak12]

A genocide isn’t about how many people die btw.

Doesn't really matter anyways since there is no proof that Barre had genocidal intent. His campaign in Hargeisa/Somaliland was meant to defeat SNM.

 

[Midas]

People don’t only die from straight bullets or bombardment. Famine, lack of medications due to blockades, diseases like malaria spreading across all refugee camps. It was something extremely common for people to die walking on land mines planted around the cities…
A genocide isn’t about how many people die btw.

Uh that's exactly what it's about? A famine is not genocide unless your
somehow purposely burn/destroy the food. But even then it's mostly about actually killing people.

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

Doesn't really matter anyways since there is no proof that Barre had genocidal intent. His campaign in Hargeisa/Somaliland was meant to defeat SNM.

Caught in 4K, actually VHS.

 

[Zak12]

Caught in 4K, actually VHS.

i don't see Barre

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

i don't see Barre

I don't see him either, he died in Nigeria.

 

[Farahslayer]

I'm not here to talk about the political aspect. Siad did obviously kill a lot of issaqs. But recently watched what happned in plaestnia and lascanood has me wondering. Even the lowest estimates you often here from people talking about the isaaq genocide is 50,000 people. That came mainly from bombing the cities. But when you think about that number that's about how many people died in palestine in the first few months( it's obviously higher now) where they were subjected to massive bombing everyday and they couldn't escape Gaza. How would siad barre who obviously didn't have as many bombs been able to kill that many people ? Especially when they woukd have been able to flee right after the first couple bombs. I mean look how everybody in lascanood was gone within a few days. Yet siad barre was able to kill that many people that quickly? It doesn't make sense

Doesn't really matter anyways since there is no proof that Barre had genocidal intent. His campaign in Hargeisa/Somaliland was meant to defeat SNM.

He’s the same man that in the 70s/early 80s save thousands of isaaq lives from the same famine that made Ethiopia notorious for famine.

Research the Dabadheer famine, Isaaq people were resettled to places like walanweyn and sablale, given food and shelter. He could have been like any African leader and let them die off if he wanted to ‘genocide’ isaaqs.

Genocide is a lengthy process that needs a huge portion of the population’s permission which takes years of propaganda. But that wouldn’t work because a large number of the top kacaan officials were isaaq.

The reality is all the S groups (sunk, ssdf, usc etc) were not only complicit in the Kacaan government they were part and parcel and key officials. They just wanted power from Sisd to create their own ‘kacaan’.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

Uh that's exactly what it's about? A famine is not genocide unless your
somehow purposely burn/destroy the food. But even then it's mostly about actually killing people.

You actually have to be retarded to be this obtuse in this conversation while living in the very year where the definition of genocide has been brought up/debated more than pretty much anything.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

---

Yeah but how can you kill that many people by bombing a city when most people can flee. I think even in the civil war in the early to mid 90s most people that died were because of starvation. The amount actually killed probably wasn't much larger than 50-100k . So how could siad barre actually kill that many?

They dont say he killed that many, just a combination of all the things you mentioned which led to the figure.

 

[DR OSMAN]

At least there some fuckin reason being applied by Somalis not just accepting anything you hear we know the kill rate of a mig 23 and it's payload over 2 weeks. Plus we know Isaaqs we're all in harshin as refugees and the town was rebels and helpers who are fair game and domestic enemies fighting for clan pride.

Siyad cannot be compared to clan rebel leaders who were subject to menguistu evil intention for this nation. Siyad defended the nation which was his duty why don't we see any condemnation on abi Ahmed doing the same to tigray and amhara why is siyad held to a different standard?

Siyad didn't harm anyone if they were not troublemakers this is the truth and untill Somalis face the truth and stop deflecting to nonsensical arguments used by clan rebel groups we are wasting time on your mythologies.

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

Research the Dabadheer famine, Isaaq people were resettled to places like walanweyn and sablale, given food and shelter. He could have been like any African leader and let them die off if he wanted to ‘genocide’ isaaqs.

Genocide is a lengthy process that needs a huge portion of the population’s permission which takes years of propaganda. But that wouldn’t work because a large number of the top kacaan officials were isaaq.

The reality is all the S groups (sunk, ssdf, usc etc) were not only complicit in the Kacaan government they were part and parcel and key officials. They just wanted power from Sisd to create their own ‘kacaan’.

The genocide obviously started at a later point than those events, if they are even true.

Genocide has no time limit and doesnt' need the permssion of a certain number of people.That's just your own invention

 

[TheLand]

People don’t only die from straight bullets or bombardment. Famine, lack of medications due to blockades, diseases like malaria spreading across all refugee camps. It was something extremely common for people to die walking on land mines planted around the cities…
A genocide isn’t about how many people die btw.

Doesn't really matter anyways since there is no proof that Barre had genocidal intent. His campaign in Hargeisa/Somaliland was meant to defeat SNM.

Can't be 'genocide' anyway cause you are talking about the same ethnic group. How do you even prove who the people that were killed were? Even dna wouldn't be able to prove that since it's all basically the same anyway. Maybe a new term such as 'qabiloside' is needed? Either way it's clearly massively overblown.

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

You actually have to be retarded to be this obtuse in this conversation while living in the very year where the definition of genocide has been brought up/debated more than pretty much anything.

It's timing is on the heels of an L for their project to dismantle Somaliland. So they reopen the case of the genocide, these fools are totally predictable at this point.