Islamically You Must Avoid Overthrowing The Government At All Costs

[hanif#]

Abdul Malik bin Marwan did not rule all Muslims

What Muslim land did he not rule?

and what happened at that time was fatnah
A strong ruler should never be overthrown because this will cause much destruction and the death of many people

So you are basically saying the Tabi'in were wrong and shouldn't have fought Hajaj and his likes. The Salaf were wrong and you are right. Who do you think you are?

 

[Omar del Sur]

I suggest everyone Reads this brief book and PDF apart from the Khawariji since it is about them lol .

It is By Shaykh albani

https://abdurrahmanorg.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/descriptions-of-the-khawarij-shaykh-al-albanee-authentic-translations-com.pdf

btw you should read this yourself. nowhere in here does it say "believing that dismantling the shariah is major kufr is one of the traits of the khawarij".

the khawarij made takfir of people who committed major sins. they rebelled against Uthman and Ali.

contrary to ahlul starbucks propaganda, criticizing Saudi Shakira concerts is not remotely the same thing as picking up a sword against Uthman.

 

[techsamatar]

What Muslim land did he not rule?

So you are basically saying the Tabi'in were wrong and shouldn't have fought Hajaj and his likes. The Salaf were wrong and you are right. Who do you think you are?

Usual Khawarij tactics using the Salaf to mask his corrupt ideology lol, your the enemy of the salaf with the filth you type.

 

[hanif#]

Usual Khawarij tactics using the Salaf to mask his corrupt ideology lol, your the enemy of the salaf with the filth you type.

Let us see what Al Qurtubi said in his tafseer of ayah لا ينال عهدي الظالمين

استدل جماعة من العلماء بهذه الآية على أن الإمام يكون من أهل العدل والإحسان والفضل مع القوة على القيام بذلك وهو الذي أمر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ألا ينازعوا الأمر أهله على ما تقدم من القول فيه فأما أهل الفسوق والجور والظلم فليسوا له بأهل؛ لقوله تعالى {لا ينال عهدي الظالمين} ولهذا خرج ابن الزبير والحسين بن علي رضي الله عنهم وخرج خيار أهل العراق وعلماؤهم على الحجاج

A group of scholars have used this verse as an evidence that the imam(khilafah) is one of the people of justice, benevolence, and virtue, with the power to do so, and he is the one the prophet scw commanded us to obey him. As for the people of immorality, and injustice, they are not worthy of it; According to God Almighty’s saying: “لا ينال عهدي الظالمين” That is why Ibn al-Zubayr and al-Hussein bin Ali, may God be pleased with them revolted, and this is why the best of the people of Iraq and their scholars came out against al-Hajjaj.

(Google translation)

 

[techsamatar]

Let us see what Al Qurtubi said in his tafseer of ayah لا ينال عهدي الظالمين

استدل جماعة من العلماء بهذه الآية على أن الإمام يكون من أهل العدل والإحسان والفضل مع القوة على القيام بذلك وهو الذي أمر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ألا ينازعوا الأمر أهله على ما تقدم من القول فيه فأما أهل الفسوق والجور والظلم فليسوا له بأهل؛ لقوله تعالى {لا ينال عهدي الظالمين} ولهذا خرج ابن الزبير والحسين بن علي رضي الله عنهم وخرج خيار أهل العراق وعلماؤهم على الحجاج

A group of scholars have used this verse as an evidence that the imam(khilafah) is one of the people of justice, benevolence, and virtue, with the power to do so, and he is the one the prophet scw commanded us to obey him. As for the people of immorality, and injustice, they are not worthy of it; According to God Almighty’s saying: “لا ينال عهدي الظالمين” That is why Ibn al-Zubayr and al-Hussein bin Ali, may God be pleased with them revolted, and this is why the best of the people of Iraq and their scholars came out against al-Hajjaj.

(Google translation)

Al-Bukhari reported Muallaqan: Ibn Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, considered the Khawarij rebels to be the worst of Allah’s creation and he said, “Indeed, they take verses that were revealed about unbelievers and use them against believers.”


Your filthy kind are known for these tactics.

 

[hanif#]

Al-Bukhari reported Muallaqan: Ibn Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, considered the Khawarij rebels to be the worst of Allah’s creation and he said, “Indeed, they take verses that were revealed about unbelievers and use them against believers.”


Your filthy kind are known for these tactics.

Such a low iq reply

You are truly braindead and don't deserve my time bye

 

[techsamatar]

Such a low iq reply

You are truly braindead and don't deserve my time bye

Your an imbecile and your youth with this thinking fits right into the description given, like I always say you keyboard warriors just give the talk and not the walk instead of Takfiring Muslim rulers and inciting for overthrow please go ahead and leave the west and your sleeping with them and do it so inshallah your neck is stricken.

 

[Celery]

In todays time, it’s also haram to overthrow a non-Muslim country like America, for example. Millions of Muslims and non Muslims live peacefully and prosper there and it’s haram to cause chaos for ideological reasons.

 

[Al hashimi]

Reminds me of when Syria tried to overthrow Assad and ended up in their situation now. Their displaced all over the world and Assad still is in control

Bashar is a Kaffir even according to Madkhali standards. He is an Alawi

 

[Lahaine]

Bashar is a Kaffir even according to Madkhali standards. He is an Alawi

I believe he's a kaffir too and I hate what he did to he's people. The thing I'm saying is that the revolt against Assad was useless since he didn't lose power and hundreds of thousands of people died in the end

 

[Al hashimi]

I agree one should not rebel against the ruler. However this does not apply to any ruler except Afghanistan. They rule by other than Allah's Law which is Kufr Akbar.

 

[Al hashimi]

I believe he's a kaffir too and I hate what he did to he's people. The thing I'm saying is that the revolt against Assad was useless since he didn't lose power and hundreds of thousands of people died in the end

Hundreds of thousands of shaheeds
Its still ongoing so Allahu a'lam

 

[Celery]

I believe he's a kaffir too and I hate what he did to he's people. The thing I'm saying is that the revolt against Assad was useless since he didn't lose power and hundreds of thousands of people died in the end

Main reason why you don’t overthrow governments. It’s not that they’re good people. It’s the consequences for the masses compared to what is gained by overthrowing them.

 

[Periplus]

They are a secular country who are very far from Islam with prostitution, Sodomy alcohol and all forms of anti-Islam degeneracy being legal in the county. I don’t know a bigger Musiibo than that.

All that was happening in the Ottoman Empire prior to its collapse.

What’s your point?

 

[Periplus]

So Muslims should overthrow these governments?? The whole point is to avoid mass death, destruction, the breakdown of social order, displacement, hunger etc.

That’s why you shouldn’t overthrow a government.

No, I never said that either.

I said if you use the interpretation that many ulema use today then it can also apply to any non-Muslim secular government.

You can’t have the cake and eat it also.

 

[Al hashimi]

Main reason why you don’t overthrow governments. It’s not that they’re good people. It’s the consequences for the masses compared to what is gained by overthrowing them.

Does that mean we shouldn't do jihaad fi sabililaah because of the "consequences of the masses"

 

[Celery]

Does that mean we shouldn't do jihaad fi sabililaah because of the "consequences of the masses"

You must listen to scholars on the matter. None of them call for overthrow of governments through violence because they disagree with people eating pork or drinking alcohol.

Your ISIS fantasies are one thing, “Al Hashimi”, but reputable Muslim scholars don’t agree with it. Go back to your chat room and listen to nasheed while watching murder videos.

 

[Celery]

All that was happening in the Ottoman Empire prior to its collapse.

What’s your point?

He believes you should wage jihad for the sake of Allah against these governments. As in scream allahu akbar and shoot up a building etc. Put one and two together.

 

[Basra]

Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman reported: I asked, “O Messenger of Allah, we were living in an evil time and Allah brought us good in which we live now. Will there be evil after this good?” The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Yes.” I said, “And any good after this evil?” The Prophet said, “Yes.” I said, “And any evil after this good?” The Prophet said, “Yes.” I said, “How will it be?” The Prophet said, “Leaders after me will come who do not follow my guidance and my Sunnah. Some of their men will have the hearts of devils in a human body.” I said, “O Messenger of Allah, what should I do if I live to see that time?” The Prophet said, “You should listen and obey the ruler, even if he strikes your back and takes your wealth, even still listen and obey.”

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 1847

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Muslim

You see this is why i don't run to follow hadith. I mean-looking at it -it sounds reasonable -as in Quran Allaah swt said every hard time comes Good times. Inaa macaal uusrii yuusra!

However - obeying an evil leader? Subhannallaah.

 

[Omar del Sur]

I know you're itching to Takfir muslim rulers in the same category as Ataturk.

wait a minute- so you wouldn't takfir someone like Ataturk? and you think it's khariji to takfir someone like Ataturk? don't you know Albani made takfir of Ataturk? and I think Sheikh Ibn Baz made takfir of the first leader of Tunisia... Bourgouibe.... something like that, not sure how to spell his name. (that guy was like Tunisian Ataturk)

this idea that you can't takfir someone like Ataturk is really extreme. you think the salaf would have said to listen and obey Ataturk? the salaf would have made takfir of him and you'd be calling them khawarij.

you claim to be on the path of the salaf but you're not. spubs is not the salaf.

Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah made takfir of the tatars because they removed the shariah and were ruling by some other set of laws. What do you think Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah- who any spubs follower is going to regard as Sheikh ul Islam- what do you think he would have said about Ataturk?

You realize Abu Bakr made takfir of people for not paying the zakah? ie the riddah wars. you really think he would tell people to listen and obey to someone like Ataturk?

Abu Bakr radiAllahu anhu, the salaf, Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah... all of them would have made takfir of someone like Ataturk. you can pretend you are on the path of the salaf just because you call yourself a salafi- but you would have people live in an alterate reality where they would think those figures would have said to listen and obey someone like Ataturk whereas in reality they would have made takfir of someone like Ataturk.

that being said, removing someone like Ataturk isn't obligatory if there isn't the means to do so.

following the salaf is based on following the salaf. abu khadeejah is not the salaf, the ceo of starbucks is not the salaf and the Saudi Arabian government is not the salaf- and the UAE gov is definitely not the salaf. it has nothing to do with calling yourself a Salafi. you can call yourself a Salafi all you want but you're not actually following the salaf unless you're actually following the salaf. and in fact calling yourself a Salafi is not following the salaf but that's a different topic.

"If the title of following the way of the Salaf is going to be used, then it is obligatory that you differentiate between titling and the reality, because you have some who call themselves salafi without that being the reality and this one is not salafi." -Sheikh Fawzan (Salafiyyah its reality and characteristics)