Islamically You Must Avoid Overthrowing The Government At All Costs

[Gacmeey]

Usual Khawarij tactics using the Salaf to mask his corrupt ideology lol, your the enemy of the salaf with the filth you type.

Why do you never answer people’s points? Instead of calling them khawarij and accusing them of twisting words and events, explain why they are wrong please

 

[hanif#]

All that was happening in the Ottoman Empire prior to its collapse.

What’s your point?

I'm not sure if all that was happening. Sources?

Even if we assume that's true the Ottoman caliphate was not a legitimate caliphate as it's rulers were not Arabs.

 

[techsamatar]

Why do you never answer people’s points? Instead of calling them khawarij and accusing them of twisting words and events, explain why they are wrong please

Brother I spent nearly 100 threads on this topic and already dealt with these bafoons so am not going to waste my energy retyping and debating I did not get anywhere with them and their sick thinking wont change so let them continue their keyboard antics as long as they remain in the west and don't act upon what they preach.

 

[techsamatar]

wait a minute- so you wouldn't takfir someone like Ataturk? and you think it's khariji to takfir someone like Ataturk? don't you know Albani made takfir of Ataturk? and I think Sheikh Ibn Baz made takfir of the first leader of Tunisia... Bourgouibe.... something like that, not sure how to spell his name. (that guy was like Tunisian Ataturk)

this idea that you can't takfir someone like Ataturk is really extreme. you think the salaf would have said to listen and obey Ataturk? the salaf would have made takfir of him and you'd be calling them khawarij.

you claim to be on the path of the salaf but you're not. spubs is not the salaf.

Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah made takfir of the tatars because they removed the shariah and were ruling by some other set of laws. What do you think Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah- who any spubs follower is going to regard as Sheikh ul Islam- what do you think he would have said about Ataturk?

You realize Abu Bakr made takfir of people for not paying the zakah? ie the riddah wars. you really think he would tell people to listen and obey to someone like Ataturk?

Abu Bakr radiAllahu anhu, the salaf, Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah... all of them would have made takfir of someone like Ataturk. you can pretend you are on the path of the salaf just because you call yourself a salafi- but you would have people live in an alterate reality where they would think those figures would have said to listen and obey someone like Ataturk whereas in reality they would have made takfir of someone like Ataturk.

that being said, removing someone like Ataturk isn't obligatory if there isn't the means to do so.

following the salaf is based on following the salaf. abu khadeejah is not the salaf, the ceo of starbucks is not the salaf and the Saudi Arabian government is not the salaf- and the UAE gov is definitely not the salaf. it has nothing to do with calling yourself a Salafi. you can call yourself a Salafi all you want but you're not actually following the salaf unless you're actually following the salaf. and in fact calling yourself a Salafi is not following the salaf but that's a different topic.

"If the title of following the way of the Salaf is going to be used, then it is obligatory that you differentiate between titling and the reality, because you have some who call themselves salafi without that being the reality and this one is not salafi." -Sheikh Fawzan (Salafiyyah its reality and characteristics)

Are you cognitively challenged? I'd had enough of you moron scumbags. You used Ataturk as an example, who was a clear kafir and was not even a muslim to begin with, so using a kafir and a pharaoh as examples in that comment you made was a stretch, so I said I know your itching to label muslim rulers today as the same as him to justify your takfriing and call for overthrow.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Are you cognitively challenged? I'd had enough of you moron scumbags. You used Ataturk as an example, who was a clear kafir and was not even a muslim to begin with, so using a kafir and a pharaoh as examples in that comment you made was a stretch, so I said I know your itching to label muslim rulers today as the same as him to justify your takfriing and call for overthrow.

if I'm a moron come over to my thread on "madkhalis" and refute it. but you can't.

I know you're itching to Takfir muslim rulers in the same category as Ataturk.

that is what you said. I genuinely wasn't really paying attention to your post and I didn't see that you mentioned Ataturk is not a Muslim. but "I know you're itching to Takfir muslim rulers in the same category as Ataturk." that is badly written, I thought you meant a person can't make takfir of Ataturk types.

let me ask you- is abolishing the shariah kufr akbar?

 

[Omar del Sur]

to justify your takfriing and call for overthrow.

you realize that Sheikh Ibn Baz called for fighting rulers who dismantle the shariah? I am not calling for that, I am just mentioning that he said that (and I believe his statement saying this is shown in the "madkhali" thread). according to your standards, Sheikh Ibn Baz would be a khariji.

I quoted a fatwa of Sheikh Ibn Baz earlier in this thread and I took his position- I don't agree with trying to remove the ruler who has committed clear kufr unless Muslims have the means and it won't lead to a greater evil for the Muslims.

 

[Omar del Sur]

@techsamatar let me ask another question. is someone who rules with other than the shariah a taghut?

 

[techsamatar]

@techsamatar let me ask another question. is someone who rules with other than the shariah a taghut?

If he believes rule of man is superior and better then sharia then it is Kufr akbar, but if he believes sharia is superior and implements parts of it or even 98% then that Does not make him a kafir.

This Somali brother explains it perfectly.

 

[Omar del Sur]

@techsamatar two more questions

1- is someone who criticizes the Saudi gov a khariji?

2- is someone who criticizes the Somali gov a khariji?

why is the answer different for the first question than for the second? you called me a khariji for criticizing the Saudi gov. why don't you go ahead and call basically this entire forum as khariji for criticizing the Somali gov?

and let me prove that you're a liar.

You have "an intermediate proficiency in classical Arabic along with understanding Egyptian Arabic" but you didn't know the word khawarij is plural?

 

[techsamatar]

if I'm a moron come over to my thread on "madkhalis" and refute it. but you can't.




that is what you said. I genuinely wasn't really paying attention to your post and I didn't see that you mentioned Ataturk is not a Muslim. but "I know you're itching to Takfir muslim rulers in the same category as Ataturk." that is badly written, I thought you meant a person can't make takfir of Ataturk types.

let me ask you- is abolishing the shariah kufr akbar?

Am not gonna waste my time again We had our points in many threads and you keep using this madkhali myth and slandering a tribe and a noble sheikh so am not even gonna bother.

 

[reer]

Am not gonna waste my time again We had our points in many threads and you keep using this madkhali myth and slandering a tribe and a noble sheikh so am not even gonna bother.

that group call people surooris (after mohamed suroor) and qutbis (after sayyid qutb) so there is no qualms in calling then madkhali.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Am not gonna waste my time again We had our points in many threads and you keep using this madkhali myth and slandering a tribe and a noble sheikh so am not even gonna bother.

"@techsamatar two more questions

1- is someone who criticizes the Saudi gov a khariji?

2- is someone who criticizes the Somali gov a khariji?

why is the answer different for the first question than for the second? you called me a khariji for criticizing the Saudi gov. why don't you go ahead and call basically this entire forum as khariji for criticizing the Somali gov?"


Yes, it is no surprise you won't answer this- because you can't. Either you say this rule only applies to the Saudi gov- which would show you are a stooge for that gov... and in which case btw you'd have to call Albani a khariji as he publically criticized the Saudi gov.... or you'd have to just come out and call basically the entire userbase here as khawarij.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Why do you never answer people’s points? Instead of calling them khawarij and accusing them of twisting words and events, explain why they are wrong please

this is just how it is with these people.

I posted this in my "madkhali" thread:



this is one of the big "Madkhali" accounts on twitter and he took off running when the guy debating him was about to bring in what Ibn Kathir said. they pretend like their views match the classical scholars but this isn't actually true.

 

[techsamatar]

@Omar del Sur Continue yapping; the day I exposed you as a Salafi larper was well spent. Were you the one who pretended to be Salafi and then tried to brainwash people into thinking there were branches of Salafiyah, you moron agent, and then your true self came out with your obsession with rulers and finding ways to takfir them, and then your slander and npc usage of the word madkhali, which braindead sheep muslims just blurt out against anyone who does not think with their desires?

 

[Omar del Sur]

@Omar del Sur Continue yapping; the day I exposed you as a Salafi larper was well spent. Were you the one who pretended to be Salafi and then tried to brainwash people into thinking there were branches of Salafiyah, you moron agent, and then your true self came out with your obsession with rulers and finding ways to takfir them, and then your slander and npc usage of the word madkhali, which braindead sheep muslims just blurt out against anyone who does not think with their desires?

answer.

"@techsamatar two more questions

1- is someone who criticizes the Saudi gov a khariji?

2- is someone who criticizes the Somali gov a khariji?

why is the answer different for the first question than for the second? you called me a khariji for criticizing the Saudi gov. why don't you go ahead and call basically this entire forum as khariji for criticizing the Somali gov?"

 

[techsamatar]

answer.

"@techsamatar two more questions

1- is someone who criticizes the Saudi gov a khariji?

2- is someone who criticizes the Somali gov a khariji?

why is the answer different for the first question than for the second? you called me a khariji for criticizing the Saudi gov. why don't you go ahead and call basically this entire forum as khariji for criticizing the Somali gov?"

Firstly Somalia does not even have a government but state within states and Clans their is no central power or authority, so really dumb example to use but still any regions under the government anyone who tries to overthrow and rebel to seize power is a khariji.

Best advise for Somalia and for any group who wants to implement sharia and win the heart of the people is do what National socialist did when a coupe did not work, they took the smart path and won votes until they became largest Hizb and when he became Chancellor he asked the German people to give him complete power and authority to the level of a Sultan or a King for only 4 years and they can judge him on his work and from their on he improved the life of his people and he banned all opposition parties and only his party was allowed in Germany.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Firstly Somalia does not even have a government but state within states and Clans their is no central power or authority, so really dumb example to use but still any regions under the government anyone who tries to overthrow and rebel to seize power is a khariji.

Best advise for Somalia and for any group who wants to implement sharia and win the heart of the people is do what National socialist did when a coupe did not work, they took the smart path and won votes until they became largest Hizb and when he became Chancellor he asked the German people to give him complete power and authority to the level of a Sultan or a King for only 4 years and they can judge him on his work and from their on he improved the life of his people and he banned all opposition parties and only his party was allowed in Germany.

you have a Stalin avatar and you're calling to the minhaj of naziism but..... you're on the minhaj of the salaf???

anyways... so HSM is not the leader of Somalia?? are you making KHUROOJ against HSM?

is there not a federal government of Somalia?

anyways.

ok. fine. according to what you've said- criticizing Saudi makes you a khariji... but for some reason, that doesn't apply to someone who criticizes HSM or who criticized Farmaajo... and this also doesn't apply to someone who criticizes Hamas.... ok...

well- looks like we have here a khariji!:

so do you condemn Sheikh Albani as being a khariji?


wait...... and what's this......

it seems we have another "khariji"!







so do you condemn Sheikh Uthaymeen and Sheikh Albani as being khawarij?

 

[Omar del Sur]

look, @techsamatar- you should not even try to debate me. your ideology is nonsense.

if you say "criticizing the Saudi gov makes you a khariji"- ok, then this makes Sheikh Albani a khariji.

if you say "holding the view that dismantling the shariah is major kufr makes you a khariji"- ok, then this makes Ibn Hazm, Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn Kathir khawarij.

if you say "holding the view that it's permissible to rebel against a ruler who commits kufr akbar makes you a khariji"- you've made all the scholars ever khawarij because this is a point of ijma that isn't disputed.

even if you say "holding the view that it's permissible to fight a ruler who dismantles the shariah makes you a khariji"- you've made Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah a khariji as he made takfir of the tatar on this basis and clearly considered it acceptable to fight them on this basis- and you've also made Sheikh Ibn Baz a khariji as Sheikh Ibn Baz called for fighting rulers who dismantle the shariah. btw I'm not calling for fighting rulers who dismantle the shariah, I just make the point that they are not legitimate and don't have the rights of legitimate Muslim rulers.

 

[techsamatar]

look, @techsamatar- you should not even try to debate me. your ideology is nonsense.

if you say "criticizing the Saudi gov makes you a khariji"- ok, then this makes Sheikh Albani a khariji.

if you say "holding the view that dismantling the shariah is major kufr makes you a khariji"- ok, then this makes Ibn Hazn, Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn Kathir khawarij.

if you say "holding the view that it's permissible to rebel against a ruler who commits kufr akbar makes you a khariji"- you've made all the scholars ever khawarij because this is a point of ijma that isn't disputed.

even if you say "holding the view that it's permissible to fight a ruler who dismantles the shariah makes you a khariji"- you've made Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah a khariji as he made takfir of the tatar on this basis and clearly considered it acceptable to fight them on this basis- and you've also made Sheikh Ibn Baz a khariji as Sheikh Ibn Baz called for fighting rulers who dismantle the shariah. btw I'm not calling for fighting rulers who dismantle the shariah, I just make the point that they are not legitimate and don't have the rights of legitimate Muslim rulers.

Again stop mentioning those Sheikhs to align with your filthy thinking non of them Takfired the Modern rulers and called for their removal non of them slandered people as madkhali in fact they would be labelled as madkhali. You and your bandits consider the Muslim rulers as Kafirs and non believers on Sins alone and you spread the poison of rebellion.

 

[hanif#]

@Omar del Sur does not consider Mbs and the gulf rulers kufaf as far as I know