Lalibela was built by Egyptian Copts not Ethiopians

[awsaleban667]

The greatest piece of architecture to come out of Ethiopia wasn’t even Ethiopian! European travellers such as James Bruce, Francisco Alvarez, Job Ludolf and Manuel De Almeida all mention that the builders of Lalibela were Copts who came to Ethiopia both at the request of King Lalibela of Ethiopia and to escape the persecutions of Fatimid Caliph Al Hakim Bi-Amr Allah.

Job Ludolf: He personally interviewed the Amhara Monk Abba Gorgoryos

James Bruce

Manuel De Almeida: Jesuit who served in the court of Emperor Susenyos of Ethiopia

Francisco Alvarez: Jesuit who visited Lalibela and personally met with Emperor Lebna Dengel

 

[awsaleban667]

@Khaemwaset @Yami

 

[awsaleban667]

@Step a side

 

[Killamenace78]

The greatest piece of architecture to come out of Ethiopia wasn’t even Ethiopian! European travellers such as James Bruce, Francisco Alvarez, Job Ludolf and Manuel De Almeida all mention that the builders of Lalibela were Copts who came to Ethiopia both at the request of King Lalibela of Ethiopia and to escape the persecutions of Fatimid Caliph Al Hakim Bi-Amr Allah.

Job Ludolf: He personally interviewed the Amhara Monk Abba GorgoryosView attachment 319242
James Bruce
View attachment 319243
Manuel De Almeida: Jesuit who served in the court of Emperor Susenyos of Ethiopia
View attachment 319244
Francisco Alvarez: Jesuit who visited Lalibela and personally met with Emperor Lebna Dengel
View attachment 319245

What did you expect their rulers lived in mud huts

 

[Step a side]

Saw a TikTok video on this. Makes sense for Egyptians to have build this. Egyptians have the knowledge and skills. It’s too complicated for Ethiopians. The castle of Fasilidies was Portuguese while Aksum was just a continuation of D’Mt which is Yemeni Sabean throughout.

 

[awsaleban667]

Saw a TikTok video on this. Makes sense for Egyptians to have build this. Egyptians have the knowledge and skills. It’s too complicated for Ethiopians. The castle of Fasilidies was Portuguese while Aksum was just a continuation of D’Mt which is Yemeni Sabean throughout.

I gave that nigga his sources lol

 

[awsaleban667]

Archaeologists say that the Bete Maryam Church of Lalibela has strong Syrian Influences architecturally

 

[awsaleban667]

Saw a TikTok video on this. Makes sense for Egyptians to have build this. Egyptians have the knowledge and skills. It’s too complicated for Ethiopians. The castle of Fasilidies was Portuguese while Aksum was just a continuation of D’Mt which is Yemeni Sabean throughout.

Actually the castle was built by Indian Stoenmasons while the rest of Gondar was just mudhuts

 

[awsaleban667]

@Nin123 I see you are pseudo Habesha larper

 

[awsaleban667]

@ibrahym post this on twitter

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

Saw a TikTok video on this. Makes sense for Egyptians to have build this. Egyptians have the knowledge and skills. It’s too complicated for Ethiopians. The castle of Fasilidies was Portuguese while Aksum was just a continuation of D’Mt which is Yemeni Sabean throughout.

Interesting, what was limiting them in learning how to build things. And were somalis the same in how they constructed things? Brick and mortar cant be that hard to learn

Something else i noticed unrelated is how far underground these buildings sunk in only a couple of centuries

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

The greatest piece of architecture to come out of Ethiopia wasn’t even Ethiopian! European travellers such as James Bruce, Francisco Alvarez, Job Ludolf and Manuel De Almeida all mention that the builders of Lalibela were Copts who came to Ethiopia both at the request of King Lalibela of Ethiopia and to escape the persecutions of Fatimid Caliph Al Hakim Bi-Amr Allah.

Job Ludolf: He personally interviewed the Amhara Monk Abba GorgoryosView attachment 319242
James Bruce
View attachment 319243
Manuel De Almeida: Jesuit who served in the court of Emperor Susenyos of Ethiopia
View attachment 319244
Francisco Alvarez: Jesuit who visited Lalibela and personally met with Emperor Lebna Dengel
View attachment 319245

Good work on this, must have taken you a lot of time to find these sources and even worse trying to read this old english and making sense of it. Good Skill.

 

[Step a side]

Actually the castle was built by Indian Stoenmasons while the rest of Gondar was just mudhuts
View attachment 319250

Ah I misread it. It has Portuguese, Nubian and Indian influences. The architect was Indian.

Interesting, what was limiting them in learning how to build things. And were somalis the same in how they constructed things? Brick and mortar cant be that hard to learn

Something else i noticed unrelated is how far underground these buildings sunk in only a couple of centuries

They literally carved the structure from the bedrock itself. Egyptians been doing this for millenniums. Abu Simble comes to mind.

This size. scale and precision of those Ethiopian churches was difficult to achieve even for other societies during that time. I don’t think Ethiopians and Somalis have ever build anything similar to this anywhere.

 

[Yami]

The church’s construction was commissioned by a Cushitic dynasty of Agew’s. If you guys remember @Shimbiris mentioned that Cushites hated hard labour makes sense that they’d paid Egyptians to do all the work.

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

Ah I misread it. It has Portuguese, Nubian and Indian influences. The architect was Indian.




They literally carved the structure from the bedrock itself. Egyptians been doing this for millenniums. Abu Simble comes to mind.

View attachment 319259

This size. scale and precision of those Ethiopian churches was difficult to achieve even for other societies during that time. I don’t think Ethiopians and Somalis have ever build anything similar to this anywhere.

Thats ancient egypt bro Im talking about post year 0, I think they later egyptians forgot how to even do this. Im speaking about how could ethiopians not build with mortar, the builds in lalibela are just strong brick churches re inforced with lime which lasts a long time

 

[Step a side]

Thats ancient egypt bro Im talking about post year 0, I think they later egyptians forgot how to even do this. Im speaking about how could ethiopians not build with mortar, the builds in lalibela are just strong brick churches re inforced with lime which lasts a long time

Egypt was under Greek, Roman, Byzantine, Rashidun, Ummayad etc. They were always part of great civilisations so I doubt they forgot it. If anything they only increased their knowledge by combining various cultures they got exposed to.

I’m not well versed in to Lalibela but I believe the churches were carved not build. The literally carved it from the soil you walk on. That’s difficult in my opinion.

 

[Khaem]

The church’s construction was commissioned by a Cushitic dynasty of Agew’s. If you guys remember @Shimbiris mentioned that Cushites hated hard labour makes sense that they’d paid Egyptians to do all the work.

Yes the Zagwe rulers of Ethiopia was Central Cushite Agew.

And in classic Cushitic laziness they hire foreigners to work hard labour for them.
Egyptians are experts at being wipped into building gigantic structures.

 

[Shimbiris]

Yes the Zagwe rulers of Ethiopia was Central Cushite Agew.

And in classic Cushitic laziness they hire foreigners to work hard labour for them.
Egyptians are experts at being wipped into building gigantic structures.

We and Arabs are the master race, remember that. Always making ajanabis sweat for us even when we're dirt poor. As it should be.

But jokes aside, fellas, this smells of bullshit to me. More complicated and older or just a little newer hewn churches and structures have been found in Ethiopia. I've lost the sources but there was an example of one near central Ethiopia very similar to the largest of the Lalibela churches and it was quite big and well-done.

Also, these claims of "Syrian influences" in the architecture must be subtle and due to trade at best because anyone familiar with Aksumite architecture at even a rudimentary level can see from looking at the Lalibela churches that they're basically that. For example, look at the doors:

Do you know why squares jut out like that? They're imitating the fact that Aksumite architecture was often a mixture of stone and wood and those would be wooden support beams:

Also, hewn churches are nothing unique in Northern Ethiopia. They're everywhere. Hence those ruins I spoke of. Just look it up:

Rock-hewn churches of tigray

Some get pretty impressive. The Lalibela churches are just the ultimate form of the art and the best preserved. 'fraid this was definitely something overwhelmingly indigenous. Read up on Ehret's writings about Agaws, he notes how they seemed pretty obsessed with stone from very early on based on the archaeology of the region. This also points to Aksumite architecture. There's a pretty strong distinction between it and the early D'mt type architecture you see at Yeha which to me just seems like it's been straight imported from ancient Yemen.

Aksumite architecture seems more indigenous and mishmash and due to the Agaws and probably predates the Southern Ethiosemitic influences based on what I remember various authors suggesting like Stuart Munro-Hay but of course in true cadaan fashion those chaps then claimed an even older strain of Semites must have been responsible .

 

[Cartan Boos]

The church’s construction was commissioned by a Cushitic dynasty of Agew’s. If you guys remember @Shimbiris mentioned that Cushites hated hard labour makes sense that they’d paid Egyptians to do all the work.

Cushitic ain't lazy and agew have literally tradition of carving things into the ground this not their first time, this hotep remind how Cadaan claimed runaway Egyptian slave built adulis even tho it's proven the native to do it

 

[Khaem]

We and Arabs are the master race, remember that. Always making ajanabis sweat for us even when we're dirt poor. As it should be.

But jokes aside, fellas, this smells of bullshit to me. More complicated and older or just a little newer hewn churches and structures have been found in Ethiopia. I've lost the sources but there was an example of one near central Ethiopia very similar to the largest of the Lalibela churches and it was quite big and well-done.

Also, these claims of "Syrian influences" in the architecture must be subtle and due to trade at best because anyone familiar with Aksumite architecture at even a rudimentary level can see from looking at the Lalibela churches that they're basically that. For example, look at the doors:

View attachment 319279


Do you know why squares jut out like that? They're imitating the fact that Aksumite architecture was often a mixture of stone and wood and those would be wooden support beams:

View attachment 319280

Also, hewn churches are nothing unique in Northern Ethiopia. They're everywhere. Hence those ruins I spoke of. Just look it up:

Rock-hewn churches of tigray

Some get pretty impressive. The Lalibela churches are just the ultimate form of the art and the best preserved. 'fraid this was definitely something overwhelmingly indigenous. Read up on Ehret's writings about Agaws, he notes how they seemed pretty obsessed with stone from very early on based on the archaeology of the region. This also points to Aksumite architecture. There's a pretty strong distinction between it and the early D'mt type architecture you see at Yeha which to me just seems like it's been straight imported from ancient Yemen.

Aksumite architecture seems more indigenous and mishmash and due to the Agaws and probably predates the Southern Ethiosemitic influences based on what I remember various authors suggesting like Stuart Munro-Hay but of course in true cadaan fashion those chaps then claimed an even older strain of Semites must have been responsible .

Good to see the sspot historian is back to give a lesson 🫡🫡