Look at this too, Petra is one of the eternal masterpieces of art. Frankly, when I see such works, I doubt that those who carved them were ordinary people.
Lalibela was built by Egyptian Copts not Ethiopians
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Don't let u reasonable hate for aidtopia blind y'all to discredit the noble Cushitic achievement
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The interior of the Debre Damo (pretty much one of the only surviving examples of Aksumite architecture) to show you what I mean about the mixture of wood and stone and what the Lalibela churches are trying to visually represent:
Even the famous stelae of Aksum literally do the same thing the Lalibela churches are doing and imitate this visual:
Same exact thing being depicted and with the stelae/obelisk you can see even more detail with the circles that also represent wooden beams. No such architecture, as far as I know, existed at any point in Yemen so this is pretty plainly an indigenous style and Cushites were always weirdly obsessed with stones and piling them up. From the moment they entered the Horn they started making small stelae, dolmens and large rock piles similar to the Kurgans of Eurasia you can find even in Somalia. Those pastoralist cave-paintings from all over the Horn and even in pre-Iron Age (seemingly Cushitic) Yemen? Some of the ones in Ethiopia were actually hewn rather than just paintings:
This stuff goes back a long, long time for Cushites.
Even the famous stelae of Aksum literally do the same thing the Lalibela churches are doing and imitate this visual:
Same exact thing being depicted and with the stelae/obelisk you can see even more detail with the circles that also represent wooden beams. No such architecture, as far as I know, existed at any point in Yemen so this is pretty plainly an indigenous style and Cushites were always weirdly obsessed with stones and piling them up. From the moment they entered the Horn they started making small stelae, dolmens and large rock piles similar to the Kurgans of Eurasia you can find even in Somalia. Those pastoralist cave-paintings from all over the Horn and even in pre-Iron Age (seemingly Cushitic) Yemen? Some of the ones in Ethiopia were actually hewn rather than just paintings:
This stuff goes back a long, long time for Cushites.
Step a side
VIP
Semites had developed this type of knowledge since the days of Thamud. Thamud predate Ibrahim (AS). This is Mada in Saleh.
Stop your Pan Cush retardism Agews are basically the same as Amhara genetically and phenotypically. The only thing they have similar to us is language. You wont see a Brit defending Bengalis by saying Muh Indo European
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Cringe Cushitic doesn’t exist
There were Arab kingdoms before Islam, spread in the south or north, and only a few people were isolated from them, and this is what we want from scholars coming to Somalia to learn more about our history and whether there are kingdoms.
How does one carve a building anyways? I like to replicate something like this in my backyard actually (dont worry about city codes Ill keep it hidden.
WE WUZ KANGZ
Step a side
VIP
Arabs were lucky geographically speaking as they were strategically located between the Nile Valley and Mesopotamia. They also adopted their own writing system which they borrowed from the proto-Sinaitic script very early on in the form of Old South Arabian.
We know about Ad because of the Quran. We know about Thamud, Petra, Saba etc because of their ruins. We know about Iron Age Arabs because of their scripture. Unfortunately the only information we have about ancient Somalia is Greco Roman trade with Proto Somalis, Ancient Egyptian- Punt trade relations and Chinese and Persian expeditions to our coast
I think that Somalis were present during these periods, right? Therefore, I think that if there were archaeologists in the country, we would have relations with them. Indeed, there is a high probability that there were previous kingdoms during this period. Much of our history is neglected and we must discover it.
The alchemist
VIP
Cushites are not a monolith. Agaws are very different from Somalis. It makes no sense to lump them as if they have similar attitudes when they have very different histories and lifestyles, not to mention different geographies. Lowland Eastern Cushites are different from the Agaw. A Somali is closer to a Beja than a highland Agaw by far.The church’s construction was commissioned by a Cushitic dynasty of Agew’s. If you guys remember @Shimbiris mentioned that Cushites hated hard labour makes sense that they’d paid Egyptians to do all the work.
Step a side
VIP
In terms of culture right? Because linguistically and genetically there is no difference I believe.
Between who?
Step a side
VIP
Somalis & Agaw vs Somalis and Beja. Beja are only culturally closer to us but not genetically or linguistically.
Agews are
The Tigray churches themselves have heavy Coptic influence Buxton asked about this.We and Arabs are the master race, remember that. Always making ajanabis sweat for us even when we're dirt poor. As it should be.
But jokes aside, fellas, this smells of bullshit to me. More complicated and older or just a little newer hewn churches and structures have been found in Ethiopia. I've lost the sources but there was an example of one near central Ethiopia very similar to the largest of the Lalibela churches and it was quite big and well-done.
Also, these claims of "Syrian influences" in the architecture must be subtle and due to trade at best because anyone familiar with Aksumite architecture at even a rudimentary level can see from looking at the Lalibela churches that they're basically that. For example, look at the doors:
View attachment 319279
Do you know why squares jut out like that? They're imitating the fact that Aksumite architecture was often a mixture of stone and wood and those would be wooden support beams:
View attachment 319280
Also, hewn churches are nothing unique in Northern Ethiopia. They're everywhere. Hence those ruins I spoke of. Just look it up:
Rock-hewn churches of tigray
Some get pretty impressive. The Lalibela churches are just the ultimate form of the art and the best preserved. 'fraid this was definitely something overwhelmingly indigenous. Read up on Ehret's writings about Agaws, he notes how they seemed pretty obsessed with stone from very early on based on the archaeology of the region. This also points to Aksumite architecture. There's a pretty strong distinction between it and the early D'mt type architecture you see at Yeha which to me just seems like it's been straight imported from ancient Yemen.
Aksumite architecture seems more indigenous and mishmash and due to the Agaws and probably predates the Southern Ethiosemitic influences based on what I remember various authors suggesting like Stuart Munro-Hay but of course in true cadaan fashion those chaps then claimed an even older strain of Semites must have been responsible.
This is a nonsense discussion, there is a long tradition of this type of monuments all over the country and was clearly built by the natives. The idea that it was built by the Egyptians has absolutely no merit whatsoever same with Gonder no evidence for it. The idea that anything sophisticated came from outside of its territories is typical Eurocentric garbage. They’ve been doing that with the history for years
Very much indigenous found all overThe interior of the Debre Damo (pretty much one of the only surviving examples of Aksumite architecture) to show you what I mean about the mixture of wood and stone and what the Lalibela churches are trying to visually represent:
Even the famous stelae of Aksum literally do the same thing the Lalibela churches are doing and imitate this visual:
Same exact thing being depicted and with the stelae/obelisk you can see even more detail with the circles that also represent wooden beams. No such architecture, as far as I know, existed at any point in Yemen so this is pretty plainly an indigenous style and Cushites were always weirdly obsessed with stones and piling them up. From the moment they entered the Horn they started making small stelae, dolmens and large rock piles similar to the Kurgans of Eurasia you can find even in Somalia. Those pastoralist cave-paintings from all over the Horn and even in pre-Iron Age (seemingly Cushitic) Yemen? Some of the ones in Ethiopia were actually hewn rather than just paintings:
This stuff goes back a long, long time for Cushites.
Well no, firstly it wasn’t a continuation that hasn’t been established. Saying it was complicated for Ethiopians makes no sense since there were buildings of these structures present way before contact. As for the Yemeni Sabean theory there is absolutely nothing that predates anything found in the horn there structure wise the buildings are contemporaneous so calling them Sabean is an absolute farce. They all agree that similarities in the structures predate the coming of so called Sabeans so to call it Sabean has no merit.
Gondar was built by the Portuguese and Indians there is not even a debate aboutnhh this. Stop being a revisionist ethiopianist hotep. Ethiopians didn’t even have mortar or stone bridges before the protoguese
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