liberal ethio-philia phenomenon deep dive

[Marmarsi]

An Ethiopian scholar saying this

''Their best dish and drink required little or no skill''

It makes sense when i read it back, their dishes are splattering random stuff on a platter.

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[Aseer]

They benefited a lot from Portuguese and Dutch traders and missionaries entering their country in the early 1500-1600s , they introduced a bunch of things and they readily adopted it.


They have as a result a number of portuguese and dutch loanwords:

List of Japanese words of Portuguese origin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of Japanese words of Dutch origin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The portuguese and various Europeans tried to introduce those same mechanical devices, printing press(for mass book production) , technologies , sciences, medicine etc things to Ethiopia and they outright rejected things.

This from the thread you made some time ago: SOCIETY AND TECHNOLOGY IN ETHIOPIA 1500-1800

''After the king saw the work that it did, he had it dismantled it right away saying that thing had no use in his country because he was always moving in a camp throughout his Kingdom and he would not carry with him those machines and he would not carry with him those machines which were always fixed in one place . As if that device would serve only wherever he himself happened to be and not his entire kingdom''


I wonder if Somalis could have benefited in the same way if they weren't hostile towards us at the behest of Ethiopians or had a bias towards ''Moors''(Muslims) as they called them.

Ethiopia sent out many letters urging Portugal and Spain to attack and occupy our coast, instead of entering diplomatic trade missions the way they did with Japan.

They were being spoonfed and they barely developed if the europeans tried helping us instead we would have probably bebbattling for hegemony over the indian ocean in the near future

 

[Aseer]

Somalia was extremely centralized back then. A lot of the same portuguese and other Europeans who would pass by would make note of it.

They were also already using different mechanical devices like water wheels, mechanical oil pressers, mechanical mills, mechanical textile spinners and reeling.

And Zeila was a hub for book production, clock making and ship building.

Somalia in the 1500-1600s would have been in the best position to take advantage of the printing press. Along with other stuff.

Please post all the resources you read to know of this I never knew most of this stuff.

 

[Idilinaa]

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That was written in the 1984 by an Ethiopian scholar.

Their pre-modern food was not anything better. This is a medieval description:

''They eat cow stomach raw with the remains of it's dung in it''

I also remember reading another european visitor around 1800s commented on them eating live raw animals and being repulsed by it and them mixing food with random stuff they could find.

An Ethiopian scholar saying this

''Their best dish and drink required little or no skill''

It makes sense when i read it back, their dishes are splattering random stuff on a platter.

'' the Ethiopian emperors and the rest of the landed mobility lived poorly''

You can compare this to Somalis , the rich classes that lived in towns lived well.

''good food, clothes, furniture and houses.''

I'll just show a brief description of Majerteen coastal towns as an example, you can relate this to Harar, Zeila, Berbera, Luuq and the benadiri coast, i was planning on adding more descriptions later on.

Townsmen on board a ship drinking coffee, carrying ceremonial swords in 1889

Townswomen

Sultans castle in Bandar Qasim(Bosaso)

Stone forts in Bosaso, some kids chiling on the rooftops

Castle town of Qandala

One of the castles of the Majerteen Naib(Governor of Qandala) that are still standing today

Meanwhile Ethiopian leaders didn't even wear sandles. Their so called Emperor Tewadoros the 2nd was called the barefoot slave-king. While Somalis had an active leather and shoe making industry, Ethiopian didn't even produce shoes.

Their kings and nobility didn't live in 4-3 storey forts and grand castles like the Majerteen sultans and ruling class, and governors and wealthy town classes in other Somali cities , they like for Emperor Menelik lived in a one story hut

This was advertised as a palace btw of Menelik II

 

[Idilinaa]

Please post all the resources you read to know of this I never knew most of this stuff.

I shared some of it in the agricultural revolution thread: https://www.somalispot.com/threads/somali-agricultural-revolution-900-1600s.172550/#post-4172940

They were being spoonfed and they barely developed if the europeans tried helping us instead we would have probably bebbattling for hegemony over the indian ocean in the near future
View attachment 346083

They was doing everything and beyond to upgrade Ethiopians, imagine that they was crashing us so hard at the same time. We fought them off and they returned with more ammo and resumed. While they returned to Ethiopia with new gifts, devices and technology.

Ethiopia is one of the big reasons they started attacking us and other Muslims, while they approached Japan, Korea and China as a commercial partner. They didn't approach them with the intent to make war

They kept sending them letters and urging them to bail them out and occupy the coast and screw around in the red sea and Indian oceans.

His Highness should know that the King of Portugal, by means of his captains, was powerful enough to defend and guard the Red Sea against all the power of the great Sultan and of the great Turk, and to make war upon them even to the holy house; and that he had made greater conquests in the parts of Africa with the King of Fez and Morocco, and many other kings, subjugating all the Indies and making all their kings his tributary subjects…”

and that it would be well if he was to write to the King of Spain that he should order a fortress to be built in Zeila, and the King of Portugal should order one to be built in Masua, and the King of France order one to be made in Suaquem; and all three, with the forces of the Prester, would be able to guard the Red Sea and take Jiddah and Mekkah and Cairo, and the holy house, and go through all the countries they chose.

@The alchemist, we can go back further in time, and see the same mentality from Dawit II, who was turned into an IDP by Imam Ahmed during the Futuh;

“While we were at the town of Dara, Prester John sent us a map of the world, which we had brought to him four years ago, and which Diogo Lopez de Sequeira had sent him, with a message that if the letters on the map said what the countries were that we should put his letters at the foot of them that he might know what these countries were. We at once set to work, the friar who is going to Portugal and I, he wrote and I read, and beneath our writing he placed theirs. And because our Portugal is mixed with Castile in a small space, and Seville is very near Lisbon and near to Gorunna, I put Seville for Spain,¹ and Lisbon for Portugal, and Corunna for Gralieia. When the whole of the map was finished and nothing remained they took it away. The following day he sent to call the ambassador and all of us that were with him, and immediately in the first conversation he sent to say that the King of Portugal and the King of Castile were sovereigns of few lands, and that the King of Portugal would not be strong enough to defend the Red Sea from the power of the Turks and Rumys; and that it would be well if he was to write to the King of Spain that he should order a fortress to be built in Zeila, and the King of Portugal should order one to be built in Masua, and the King of France order one to be made in Suaquem; and all three, with the forces of the Prester, would be able to guard the Red Sea and take Jiddah and Mekkah and Cairo, and the holy house, and go through all the countries they chose.

The ambassador replied to this that His Highness was deceived or ill informed, and if any one had told him so, that be had not told him the truth; and that if he judged of it by looking at the map of the world, that he would not acquire a right knowledge of the countries, because Portugal and Spain are in the map of the world as things that are well known, and not as things requiring to be known: and that he should look in the map how the cities and castles and monasteries were, and also how Venice, Jerusalem, and Rome were, like things well-known and in small spaces, and let him look at his Ethiopia, how it was an unknown thing, very large and much spread out, full of mountains, and lions and elephants and many other animals, and also many mountain ridges, without the map showing any city, town, or castle; His Highness should know that the King of Portugal, by means of his captains, was powerful enough to defend and guard the Red Sea against all the power of the great Sultan and of the great Turk, and to make war upon them even to the holy house; and that he had made greater conquests in the parts of Africa with the King of Fez and Morocco, and many other kings, subjugating all the Indies and making all their kings his tributary subjects…”

Narrative of the Portuguese Embassy to Abyssinia During the Years 1520-1527, by Francisco Alvarez. Cap. CXIV.

 

[Idilinaa]

it's probably the most offensive lie to someones intelligence

i'm supposed to just believe that it's a whole 3000 year long continuous royal bloodline from king solomon to haile selassie? 3000 years from king solomon and it's somehow still untouched until 1974?? it's ridiculous

Lmaaoo i touched on this in a different thread

The Solomon Dynasty is fake asf as well. Their history reads like a modern day epic fiction novel.

Firstly there is no evidence whatsoever that Yekuno Amlak was related to the kings of Axum. Neither the Kings of Axum nor Yekuno Amlak ever claimed descent from Solomon

Even if the lineage was true Emperor Na‘od (Who ever other emperor claimed descent) from was a Bastard. So the line died out with Emperor Baeda Maryam

Whats even worse is that Yekuno Amlak was put in power as a puppet King by Omar Walasma to replace an Agaw ruler, after his ancestor Wali B Asma conquered and dominated the Showa region. It was the Agaw ruler who was initially hostile towards muslim expansion in the area, later Amhara took up the cause.

Here is a medieval source that reports on this event:

Translation:
"From the year 1270 A.D. Yekno Amlak was able to seize the Abyssinian throne, with the help of the Somali Zaila force led by King Omar Walasmaale, who is from the lineage of Sheikh Yusuf Barqadle, the founder of the powerful Zaila state, the king boasted of this Zayla'i power when he wrote to Tahir Beybars in Egypt, mentioning to him, "I have a military force of one hundred thousand Muslim horsemen." ''and with that the rule of the Agaw ended''

I am not fully certain about the last source but if it's so happen to be true then thats a major blow to their fantasies as well.

 

[Galool]

It is as simple as they are a kaffir satellite state in a kaffir world order that has been at war with Islam/Muslims.

Read the Quran, kuffar and their master ibliis are constantly at war with Islam and Muslims, the past couple of centuries they have been dominating and they empowered the peasant christians over the larger more powerful Muslims, Somalis in particular.

Most of their history as you mentioned is myth, most of the things they boast about are Somali history and Somali towns. The only historical places in their country are the medieval castles you mentioned built by the portugese. The historical towns, the coffee, the historical sites, the elephants, nearly everything they claim had nothing to do with them and was our history.

They were a poor isolated mostly peasant people who lived in the mountains for fear of Muslims. Their actual history consists of them begging the west to help them fight Somalis from the medieval times until now, that is all it is. They are characterized by their hate of Islam and Muslims.

 

[Galool]

One of the recommendations to this video is ''Can Ethiopia now dominate Africa?'' with a ''Mighty Ethiopia'' tumbnail ''Could Ethiopia become the future''

They really love sucking their tatas and playing into their grandiose fictions fantasies.

If anyone were to industrialize like Japan in Africa it would be Egypt or Somalia. Somaliweyn had cities, forts, industries, ships, education system/schools, commerce, modern state bureaucracies , was either using and minting currency and diplomatic embassies and trading stations abroad. Some of our cities and sultanates had flags even. This was in the 1800s.

Ethiopia had none of those things. Yet they speak about it like it qualifies as a legitimate state or an empire or had the framework to able to industrialize. Japan had most of those things i mentioned as well and more before they industrialized.

The only requirement missing from Somalia was that we were less centralized across the whole after the medieval collapse and we were in the process of rebuilding our trade networks and recovering our productive powers.

Even in our reduced fragmented state we was far more productive and enterprising , while Ethiopia as a whole was a landlocked violent petty rural semi-illiterate feudal fiefdoms that didn't produce much, their only claim to notoriety is being propped up by more advanced European powers and claiming their neighbors past achievements as their own, while not emulating anything that embodies those achievements.

I should of kept reading before posting my comment. As always you have already provided the response in a more informative and eloquent way. Jzk.

It is insane that people still fall for this propaganda.

 

[Galool]

Even their largest religious pilgrimage is a recent creation. They market it today as if it is an ancient religious tradition. They sell tours of it.

It is a recent church they built on the site of a Masjid destroyed by Menelik and his European arms, they destroyed the Masjid, killed Muslims, and made it their largest pilgrimage site and today they come twice a year in their hundreds of thousands.

Just another example of their entire identity being built upon hating Islam and Muslims and then lying and marketing as if it is some ancient historic church and pilgrimage.

Their largest religious pilgrimage is visiting a hundred year old church on the site of a recently destroyed Masjid. What kind of religion is this?

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Ethiopians are good at PR, unlike a certain ethnic group we are part of.

 

[Zak12]

The only requirement missing from Somalia was that we were less centralized

Another hurdle Somalia faced when it comes to industrialization I believe was the fact that most of Somalia was nomadic as well as the lack of wage based economy. In the mid-late 19th century Somali economies gradually relied a lot on slavery which we know for fact hampers industrialization efforts heavily. Just look at Madagascar. They had one of the most ambitious industrialization campaigns in the non-western world by bringing in British experts, building schools, factories and still failed because they had no labor beyond slavery.

Japan succeeded in part because it wasn't a slave society like most of Africa was. (not saying Somalia was a slave society of course). Even Thailand which had similar literacy rates and urbanization as pre-modern Japan struggled with industrialization because of their usage of slavery.

 

[Idilinaa]

Another hurdle Somalia faced when it comes to industrialization I believe was the lack of wage based economy. In the mid-late 19th century Somali economies gradually relied a lot on slavery which we know for fact hampers industrialization efforts heavily. Just look at Madagascar. They had one of the most ambitious industrialization campaigns in the non-western world by bringing in British experts, building schools, factories and still failed because they had no labor beyond slavery.

View attachment 346111

Japan succeeded in part because it wasn't a slave society like most of Africa was. (not saying Somalia was a slave society of course). Even Thailand which had similar literacy rates and urbanization as pre-modern Japan struggled with industrialization because of their usage of slavery.

Somalis had wage labourers, in majerteen society for example and it was similar in western galbeed/harar and waqooyi.

Servants and slave were mostly used as guards and attendants, not really for production.

I am assuming the same or similar wage labour set up existed in Benadiri coast alongside slave labour. So i don't see it being difficult transform this into industrialization.

I also think we didn't lack capital either unlike the Madagascar crown, the Majerteen sultans and the city states were pulling in large sums, and we had an increase in non-agricultural workforce and town population due to the surplus food production in the mid-late 1800s.

Somalis had more effective transport caravan system that could be transformed into road structure if needed.

I think Somalis outside of Egypt was at the best position to industralize out of Africans.

Europeans never approached Somalia like they did with Madagascar and Ethiopia, they approached us with the intent of dismantling our commerces, destroy our cities and take control of our land resources. They didn't come to help or aid our development

 

[Zak12]

Somalis had wage labourers, in majerteen society for example and it was similar in western galbeed/harar and waqooyi.

Servants and slave were mostly used as guards and attendants, not really for production.

I am assuming the same or similar wage labour set up existed in Benadiri coast alongside slave labour. So i don't see it being difficult transform this into industrialization.

I also think we didn't lack capital either unlike the Madagascar crown, the Majerteen sultans and the city states were pulling in large sums, and we had an increase in non-agricultural workforce and town population due to the surplus food production in the mid-late 1800s.

Somalis had more effective transport caravan system that could be transformed into road structure if needed.

I think Somalis outside of Egypt was at the best position to industralize out of Africans.

Europeans never approached Somalia like they did with Madagascar and Ethiopia, they approached us with the intent of dismantling our commerces, destroy our cities and take control of our land resources. They didn't come to help or aid our development

And what of the nomadism? Much of Somalia was still practicing pastoralism by independence which is counter productive against industrialization.

 

[Idilinaa]

And what of the nomadism? Much of Somalia was still practicing pastoralism by independence which is counter productive against industrialization.

You mean pastoralists? they were producers much like the agricultural worker and they would aid in industralization in the towns and cities, which would gradually create more rural development and settlement by supplying produce. In the 1970/80s during our industrialization this turned into a large commercial livestock sector.

The pastoralists were also seasonal labourers in the towns and cities , they were recruited as a work force in a lot of cases and not just militarily.

There was a large sum of Somalis in the mid-late 1800s actively looking for employement oppurtunities which had them be described as:

''Somali people are the African work people...S.Easter Arabian''

In Zeila for example rich Somali merchants would finance them to work for them as pearl divers and fishermen.

It was similar in Majerteen coast as well. The pastoralists were in-exhaustive work force

You could easily turn them into a large industrial work force, to boost the non-agricultural town populations

 

[Idilinaa]

I should of kept reading before posting my comment. As always you have already provided the response in a more informative and eloquent way. Jzk.

It is insane that people still fall for this propaganda.

Ethiopians was not only taking Losing against us during the medieval period, but every time they tried to expand into Somali territories in the modern period they was destroyed. These are various dates 1890, 1895, 1895, 1897, 1905 , 1905 1901, 1901. 1907. 1907 to mention a few where they was defeated and they siezed attempts to expand into Somali territories in after 1915

''resulted in a continuation about a crushing defeat for the Abyssinians''

Every conquest Menelik/Ethiopians tried to undertake everywhere else in Ogaden resulted in his defeat and humiliation at the hands of Somalis. Every single one.

Powerful pretend Ethiopian empire taking Loss after Loss, they was losing thousands in the process. At one point there was even an old Somali man that tricked their army into eating a poisonous plant and 20 thousand of them died.

This is how Gaajo the mighty Ethiopian army was , they was some undisciplined famished bunch

The propaganda that paints them as mighty conquerors and dominating force is embarrasing.

 

[Zak12]

@Idilinaa since you say 19th century Somalia was the most developed region of Africa outside of the north how would you compare it to the Sokoto Caliphate of West Africa? It looked to be more powerful and richer than any Somali polity.

Sokoto Caliphate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even ajnabis believe this

 

[Midas]

@Idilinaa since you say 19th century Somalia was the most developed region of Africa outside of the north how would you compare it to the Sokoto Caliphate of West Africa? It looked to be more powerful and richer than any Somali polity.

Sokoto Caliphate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even ajnabis believe this

View attachment 346145

Yeah while I don't knwo if it was more advanced. It was definitely larger and richer. These guys had millions of slaves.

 

[Idilinaa]

@Idilinaa since you say 19th century Somalia was the most developed region of Africa outside of the north how would you compare it to the Sokoto Caliphate of West Africa? It looked to be more powerful and richer than any Somali polity.

Sokoto Caliphate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even ajnabis believe this

View attachment 346145

I looked at the ref to it and it says Sokoto was a slave society. I doubt an economy largely based on mostly slave export to be that advanced.

Somali societies had more diversified trade developments and networks.

For example our textile industry was larger it was the one of the most dominant in Africa, especially in East Africa and they got incredibly wealthy from it continued throughout the 1800s until the early 1900s, exporting finished garments, shawls and artisanal caps.

It managed to even stay competitive against American textile exports:

And this is just southern Somalia alone, Harar textiles and tailored garments probably compounded that several folds i am looking more into.

 

[Zak12]

I looked at the ref to it and it says Sokoto was a slave society. I doubt an economy largely based on mostly slave export to be that advanced.

Somali societies had more diversified trade developments and networks.

For example our textile industry was larger it was the one of the most dominant in Africa, especially in East Africa and they got incredibly wealthy from it continued throughout the 1800s until the early 1900s, exporting finished garments, shawls and artisanal caps.

It managed to even stay competitive against American textile exports:

And this is just southern Somalia alone, Harar textiles and tailored garments probably compounded that several folds i am looking more into.

American fabrics were flooding into 19th century East Africa? Lmao that is new to me. I figured Somali workers and businesses would only compete against Arab and Indian products

 

[Idilinaa]

American fabrics were flooding into 19th century East Africa? Lmao that is new to me. I figured Somali workers and businesses would only compete against Arab and Indian products

Not sure about what happened to Arab products, but indian products and manufacturing was nerfed by the British who flooded their market with cheap goods and put tarifs on Indian goods which dislodged them from the markets.

Somali textile manufacturing and production of other goods was the only thing that held out it seems.