Madara x
Sleep soundly
If you watch the videos carefully or even just read the quotes on the slides, you will see that the authors never actually stated that the Somali cities were founded by Arabs.
Medieval trade routes: Which Islamic explorer visited (& wrote about) Mogadishu in the 13th century?
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If you watch the videos carefully or even just read the quotes on the slides, you will see that the authors never actually stated that the Somali cities were founded by Arabs.
Madara x
Sleep soundly
"
The East African Journey (page 13)
In the spring of 1331, Ibn Battuta traveled south along the East African coast from Aden to Mogadishu, Mombasa and Kilwa. He left Aden by ship in mid-late January 1331.
His first landfall in Africa was the city of "Zaila," four days journey from Aden (The modern city of Zeila is 40km southeast of Djibouti along the coast). He described the inhabitants as "Barbara," Muslim blacks who were followers of the Imam al- Shafi'i, although Battuta notes that the majority were "rejectors," i.e. (Shi'ite) people who rejected the first three caliphs. They herded camels and sheep.
From Zeila to Mogadishu, the land was all desert and the [overland] trip took two months. The city of Zeila was "a big city and has a great market but it is the dirtiest, most desolate and smelliest town in the world. The reason for its stink is the quantity of fish and the blood of the camels they butcher in its alleyways." To avoid the smell, Battuta spend the nights on his ship, even though the water was rough.
The next leg of the sea voyage lasted fifteen nights and brought Battuta to Maqdashaw (Mogadishu). He described the town as "endless in its size" and mentioned the large number of camels and sheep slaughtered there. Mogadishu was also famous for its cloth, which was sold as far away as Egypt. [COMMENT: If the sea voyage took fifteen days and the land voyage took two months, then a ship traveled four times as fast as a person could walk. The distance along the coast from Zeila to Mogadishu is about 1,200 miles (2,000 kilometers) and the overland distance is about 800 miles (1,200 kilometers) so a boat covered eighty miles a day and a caravan covered thirteen miles.
Upon arrival in Mogadishu harbor, it was the custom for small native boats ("sunbuqs") to approach the arriving vessel, and their occupants to offer food and hospitality to the merchants on the ship. If a merchant accepted such an offer, then he was obligated to lodge in that person's house and to accept their services as sales agent for whatever business they transacted in Mogadishu. According to Battuta, "there is profit for them [local people] in this custom." [COMMENT: This was a way for the local people to benefit from long distance trade that passed through their city.]
Because Battuta was a learned man and not a merchant, he was invited directly to the house of the "qadi" of Mogdishu.
An Account of the Sultan of Maqdashaw (page 17)
The sultan of Mogadishu was Abu Bakr ibn Shaikh Umar. He was Barbara amd spoke the local language of Mogadishu, but he also knew Arabic. Battuta was introduced to the Sultan by the "qadi" Ibn al-Burhãn, an Egyptian. After sending a message via a student to the Sultan, the student returned with a plate containing betel leaves and areca nuts, and a sprinkler that contained Damascas rose water.
The Sultan ordered Battuta to stay in the house reserved for Islamic students, and sent him food. Battuta described the food in detail as rice topped with butter ("ghee") and a sauce containing meat, chicken, fish and vegetables. They also served unripened banana cooked in milk. sour milk with pickled lemon, bunches of pickled chillies with vinegar and salt, green ginger, and mangoes. [COMMENT: Butter (ghee) was the best method for preserving milk in areas that had no refrigeration.]
Battuta noted that the people of Mogadishu ate as much as a whole group from Arabia, and they were "extremely large and fat of body." During the three days that they were the guest of the Sultan, they were fed thrice daily.
On the fourth day of their stay, a Friday, the Sultan sent clothing for them to wear to the mosque. The clothing consisted of a silk wrapper (trousers were unknown), "an upper garment of Egyptian linen with markings, a lined gown of Jerusalem material, and an Egyptian turban with embroideries."
They went to the mosque and prayed with the sultan in his royal enclosure. After the service, the Sultan stopped at the grave of his father, and then greeted his "wazirs", "amirs", and the commanders of his soldiers. Battuta observed that the customary greeting resembled that used in Yemen: touch one finger to the ground, then to one's head, and wish "May God prolong your might."
Battuta described the procession that accompanied the Sultan from the mosque to his house, which was nearby. In addition to men who carried four canopies over his head, there were crowds of barefoot people, groups of soldiers, and musicians who played drums, pipes and trumpets.
Once he arrived at his house, the Sultan held court in the council room. He was first to enter the room and then the others followed in order of precedence: wazirs, amirs and commanders, who were then seated. The "qadi", "faqihs" and "sharifs" were seated together on mats. During the afternoon prayer (the "`asr"), the soldiers joined them and stood in lines according to their rank. Battuta observed that whenever the drums, flutes and trumpets played, no one dared move.
On Saturday, the Sultan (Battuta called him a "shaikh") held audience at his home and people came to wait outside. Religious leaders occupied the second council room where they sat on wooden platforms. The "qadi" had his own platforms and each of the other groups--"faqihs", "sharifs", "imams", "shaikhs", and "hadji"--had their own platform. Guests were seated to the right of the "shaikh".
A meal is served and it is a sign of honor when people were invited to join the meal. Afterwards, the court session began. The Sultan retired to his house while the "qadi" heard cases involving the "shari'a" (religious law) and the council of ministers ("waziers" and "amirs") heard civil cases. When the Sultan's opinion was required, the court sent a written request and he replied by writing on the back of the note and returning it.
Battuta left Mogadishu by sailing south towards the land of the "Sawãhil" (coasts) and the city of Kilwa, "which is one of the cities of the land of the Zunüj." He arrived at the island of Mombasa, which he described as "a large island with two days journey by sea between it and the land of the "Sawãhil". It has no mainland. Its trees are the banana, the lemon, and the citron. They have fruit which they call the "jammun", which is similar to the olive and its [jammun] stone is like its [olive] stone except that it is extremely sweet."
There was no grain cultivated at Mombasa; all grain was imported from the "Sawãhil" coast. Most of their diet consisted of bananas and fish.
The people of Mombasa were "Shãfi'i" Muslims, "a religious people, trustworthy and righteous. Their mosques are made of wood, expertly built. At every door of the mosques there are one or two wells. The depth of the wells is a cubit or two." [COMMENT: What is the quality of water taken from a depth of two cubits (one cubit == roughly 18 inches) in a city on an island in the ocean?]
Battuta goes on in a stream-of-consciousness to describe the wooden device used to get water from the wells, the practice of feet-washing prior to entering the mosque. Apparently, everyone goes barefoot.
After an overnight stay in the town, Battuta continued on to Kilwa by ship. Most of the inhabitants of Kilwa were black ("Zunüj") and many had decorative scars on their faces, like those worn by the people of "the Limiyyin of Jan da." [COMMENT: Battuta actually wrote "j-n-d" and some authors have translated it to be the word from which the European word "Guinea" was derived.]
A merchant told Battuta that another great city, Sofala, was a half-month sail to the south, and that a third town, Yufi, was located a month's journey inland from Sofala. Yufi was the source of the gold dust that was traded through Sofala. [COMMENT: Sofala was located on the coast just south of the mouth of the Zambezi River, and Yufi must have been in the region of eastern Zimbabwe.]
According to Battuta, the city of Kilwa was beautiful and its houses were built of wood with reed ceilings. There was plentiful rain in the region. The people were devout "Shafi'i" Muslims and engaged in a continuous Holy War against the pagan "Zunüj" of the mainland.
Description of the sultan of Kilwa (page 24)
At the time of Battuta's visit, the Sultan of Kilwa was Abu al-Muzaffar Hasan. He was known as Abu al-Mawahib or "father of gifts" because of his generosity. He organized many "razzias" on the mainland and set aside one fifth of his booty to spend on ways recommended by the Koran, and set aside another share for the "sharifs" from as far away as Arabia. Battuta named four "sharifs" of Hijaz whom he met during his trip while they were visiting or en route to visit the sultan of Kilwa: Muhammed ibn Jammaz, Mansur bin Lubaida bin Abu Numayy, Muhammed bin Shumaila bin Abu Numayy, and Yabl bin Kubaish bin Jammaz.
A Story concerning the sultan of Kilwa's Deeds of Generosity (page 24)
While Battuta was there one Friday afternoon, he saw a Yemeni "faqir" ask for and receive the clothing of the Sultan. This act of generosity and humbleness increased the Sultan's prestige among his people. The Sultan's son bought the cloths back from the Yemeni "faqir" with a payment of ten slaves, and when the Sultan heard about the popular response, he added ten more slaves and two loads of ivory.
Battuta noted that these people usually made payments in ivory and never in gold. He also added that after this Sultan died, he was succeeded by his brother Da'ud, who was completely the opposite. [COMMENT: Ivory could be obtained locally, but gold could only be obtained in trade from regions to the south, notably Sofala. Gold was essential for trade with the Muslim homeland to the north.]
Battuta left Kilwa for the city of Zafar al-Hamud, at the end of Yemen in Arabia. [COMMENT: Gibb speculated that Battuta left on a southwest monsoon at the end of March, and would have required a month to reach Arabia. That meant his entire East African trip took about 2-2.5 months.]"
http://courses.wcupa.edu/jones/his311/lectures/16battut.htm
He also visited Maldives and saw a Somali ruler as I made a topic a while back, we eventually lost that territory to the Portuguese empire, aswell as Mozambique (Sofala province which was a gold colony for us).
http://www.somalispot.com/threads/somali-portuguese-conflict-also-took-place-in-the-maldvies.17143/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Aziz_of_Mogadishu
http://courses.wcupa.edu/jones/his311/lectures/16battut.htm
"Somali travellers identified the island for gold from the 13th century, prior to the Portuguese. Their transient continue to be afterwards ended in a bloody conflict acknowledged by the Somalis as “Dagaal Diig Badaaney” in 1424."
Zheng he (Muslim eunuch Chinese admiral, easily one of the best that the world has seen) notes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_voyages
"
The First Voyage
Twelve months after Zhu Di became the emperor, he suggested several voyages down the Western Ocean (now known as the Indian Ocean). He wanted Zheng He to be the commander, but was unsure as Zheng He was still relatively young. Zhu Di's advisors added onto the confusion by comparing the situation with picking dates- the older a date, the richer its flavor. Thus, Zhu Di sought advice from Yuan Zhongche, a fortune teller, who strongly believed that Zheng He was the best fit for the job. Zhu Di ultimately chose Zheng He and the latter agreed to be the Commander-in-Chief for these voyages. Zheng He had aways been interested in geography. The exact, official reason for these voyages are still unknown, as several important documents regarding the voyages were burnt in the 16th century. The majority claim trading to be the primary motive behind these voyages, but there are a few who believe that the emperor was trying to find Zhu Yunwen, seeking revenge. (see "Battle for Royalty" on "Zhu Di") Some also believe that it was for religious reasons.
On July 10, the night before the voyage, the crew had a huge banquet, led by Zhu Di. He wished them luck and made several sacrifices to the goddess of heaven, Mazu. According to legends, many sailors saw visions of Mazu when they encountered rough seas, then managed to return to safety. She was well respected throughout China and Zhu Di had built many temples under her name. These temples were called Tianfei temples. The largest and oldest of these temples is the Sunji Palace in Quanzhou.
On what was recorded as a beautiful day, July 11, 1405, Admiral Zheng He donned his formal long red robe and tall black hat, as he listened to the speech Emperor Zhu Di made to prepare the sailors for their first voyage. Thousands of spectators gathered at the Liujia Harbor in Taicang. The crew consisted of 27, 800 men, an armada of 62 treasure ships, which were for living, and 190 supporting ships. There were horse ships for trading goods, supply ships for staples, as well as water tankers for water. As soon as they were on board, they said prayers praising the invention of the compass. Each captain spoke of their admiration for the wonderful invention. Priests also burnt incense to scare away ghosts. They were determined and already certain to reach places such as Calicut, a major trading port back then, Taiwan, and several Arab countries in the Western Ocean. First, they sailed out of Liujia. Then, they reached Qui Nhon, a town in Champa. They traded aloe wood, rhino horns, and elephant trunks. The place where the fleet docked had a lot of poppies. It interested many doctors onboard who were intrigued by its usage as a painkiller. Reaching for Malacca, they visited Cambodia and Java six weeks later.
At the time the fleet arrived at Java, a civil war was being waged between East and West Java. Crew members were attacked by soldiers from the West Javanese army- 170 members of the fleet were killed. The Javanese had mistaken the Chinese crew members as reinforcements from the East Javanese army. Zheng He instantly sorted out the affair and received 60 000 taels of gold from the Javanese King as a compensation for their killings. Soon after, Zheng He even settled the conflict between the two opposing sides and returned peace to Java. Copper coins and spices were traded as well in the area.
Malacca was the next destination for the armada. Prince Parameswara warmy welcomed Zheng He, who shared with the locals skills in construction and handicrafts. Afterwards, they sailed southwest to Sri Lanka (Ceylon) and Calicut. The Ceylon king was said to have been disrespectful, resulting in Zheng He's instant departure. They stayed in Calicut from December 1406-April 1407. In Calicut, they heard of the story of Moses. At the time that they were touring Palembang, it was ruled by the Chinese pirate Chen Zuyi from Guangdong. Chen would order attacks on merchant ships. He planned an attack on Zheng He's fleet, but previous to that, was approached by a diplomatic messenger from the fleet. Chen falsely claimed that his gang of pirates would give into Zheng He and lay their hands off the armada. Once Zheng He let his guard down, Chen's pirates immediately attacked the ships. Zheng He ordered the pirates to be exterminated and the 27 800 men strong crew easily outnumbered the pirates. Over 5000 of Chen's men were killed in the battle. Chen himself was apprehended and taken back to China for trial where he received the death sentence. Peace was restored in Palembang.
During this voyage, a huge rare storm hit the ocean and the fleet. This was a significant challenge for Zheng He. Thankfully, a sudden light shined on them and the storm was over before any major damages were caused. It was recorded to have been a miracle.
The ships each had a room dedicated to Ma Tsu, a Chinese-Muslim goddess of the sea. As all of the crew members were religious, they prayed to her every night before dinner. A huge bronze mirror was used to reflect evil spirits when they arrived new lands.
For meals, they would eat brown rice, soya beans, wheat, millet, green beans, limes, lemons, oranges, pomelos, (a grapefruit-like fruit) coconuts, pears, vegetables, frogs, dogs, pigs, and dates. They would drink wine and sometimes tea. (red or green oolong) The crew ate healthy foods to maintain a good lifestyle.
Living on the ships was difficult. As it would be extremely cold at times, the crew would hug dogs and pigs for warmth. They sprayed arsenic to prevent insects and had ferocious dogs to scare rats. Many concubines were employed in Canton. They belonged to the Tanka and were mostly Buddhists. They spoke a different dialect of Chinese and did not have their feet bound. In Calicut, Ma Huan (a chronicler) recalled that the Chinese envoys ate, drunk, and slept with native women. Their husbands did not care, and instead complimented their wives.
Items of trade include silk, porcelain, tea, pepper, women, wood, silver, Ming goods, ginger, cinnamon, textiles, and many other foods and goods.
www.1421.tv)
[paste:font size="4"]The Seventh Voyage
Zhu Di's grandson, Zhu Zhanji, was the emperor of China during the time of the seventh voyage. Zhu Di had always admired his grandson's intelligence. In 1426, Zhanji, at the age of 26, became the fifth emperor of the Ming dynasty. (Note: Previous to Zhu Zhanji's reign, Zhu Gaozhi was the selected heir. His reign, and his life, did not last long. Months after he was crowned emperor, he passed away.) Zhanji did not seem to have much of an interest for the voyages, but finally on June 29, 1430, the emperor ordered a seventh and final voyage. The voyages were only for trade purposes between Siam and several other appointed kingdoms. It was relatively smaller-scaled as the previous expeditions were heavily criticized for utilizing enormous funds from the government. Previous to the voyages, Zheng He was sent to Nanjing where he built the aforementioned Dabaoen Temple and Glazed Pagoda.
On January 19, 1431, the fleet departed for the final time. They set off to their usual destinations- Vietnam, Malacca, Malaysia, and Siam. In Siam, Zheng He restored peaceful relations between Malacca and Siam. The fleet also arrived Calicut on December 10, 1432. As per usual, the fleet split up. Hong Bao lead the voyage to Hormuz. Hong Bao's fleet even reached Mecca, the Islamic holy land. The king of Mecca sent giraffes and lions back to China.
On the return voyage, Zheng He became very ill. He died at the age of 62. He and his family believed that "A life at sea should die at sea". According to religious customs, he was buried at sea. Wrapped in white cloth, his body was thrown into the ocean, with the backdrop of sailors chanting "Allah is great". Even Zheng He's burial ground is often disputed. Some believe that he died and was buried in Calicut. The voyages came to an end after 28 years."
http://zhenghe.webs.com/voyages.htm
First of all, i would like to say thank you for your generous contributions to this discussion. I read you response and it seems to me that you have a wealth of knowledge. The thorough information that you provided regarding ibn battuta's account was very enlightening. I believe that the information that you provided reinforced the claims that were made in the videos that i uploaded. So we are on the same page.
I want my viewers on youtube to have access to the information that you provided regarding battuta's account. Do you have this information uploaded online somewhere. I need i url link so that i can refer my viewers to this information.
Holla back
Madara x
Sleep soundly
Your statement "somalia did not exist untill the 20th century" could appear ludicrous, but i think i understand what you are saying.
By your statement, are you referring to the the fact that the nation state 'Somalia' (As a product of the unification of two colonized territories) literally did not exist before the 1960's, because before then we were ruled as Italian-Somaliland, french-somaliland, british-somaliland, ethiopian-somaliland, etc?
Madara x
Sleep soundly
The idea that Arabs dominated the Somali territories is interesting.
I know that if we look at the Arab slave trade in east Africa, and how all the names of Somali people are more or less Arab names, then we can conclude that there must have been a long process of Arabization, and that this process must have been violent. But these are just intuitions that i have.
On another note, can you give me some sort of the evidence that the Arabs dominated the coastal-city states?
And this domination, if it was in play, must have evoked serious resistance from the Somali's. At least i hope so.
So Was there a Arab-Somali war that occurred?
Madara x
Sleep soundly
I really like the fact that we are all have some serious discussion regarding our history. Your contributions are truly enlightening.
I have question, in the pages you've attached, i've read that Mogadishu was a Arab colony? Does that mean that the somalis were colonized by the Arabs? If so for how long, and under what terms?
Most somalis paint a picture of friendly co-existence with the invading Arabs who settled on the horn, but the formation of a colony is never a friendly matter, for it is often the consquence of some serious blood-shed.
Madara x
Sleep soundly
I must say, i never imagined such fruitful conversation could be the result of a mere thread. I am learning so much from you and all the others who've contributed. Thanks for sharing the information.
Madara x
Sleep soundly
Your contribution here is probably one of the most valuable things i've come across.
I'm going to do a series on Pre-history of Africa and you've just given me the old names of our current Somali cities
I think cushites were the first to be engaged with the inhabitants of the somali terriories. Ancient Egyptians came after.
The greeks literaly came towards the 1st A.D So they basically have no say. They are super late in the game.
Could you direct me to a map of Africa that has all the old names (like sarapion etc) of our current world?
Also these names are most greek names right? So what were the indigenous names of these areas?
DuctTape
I have an IQ of 300
An Arab-Somali War? Violent "Arabisation"? What? Firstly, no, there was no full-scale war between Somalis and Arabs. The Arab slave trade has little to do with Somalis in the case of how they became muslim since they were never enslaved. Somalis peacefully accepted Islam through ties with Arab traders. Unlike a lot of the muslim world, it was not defeated or conquered by Arabs. Secondly, I don't think Arabisation is the right word at all, since we have maintained our language and culture despite Arabs being very close to us geographically. If you want a better example, look at Sudan.
Prince of Lasanod
Eid trim pending
I don't think that an Arab - Somali war occurred but from what I've read is that the foreigners had to unite against the Somalis that surrounded the coastal cities like Mogadishu, after Arab domination it led to a joint Somali - Arab rule leading path for the Ajuuran's to eventually dominate the south and take control of Mogadishu and other Southern cities.
The Arab slave trade is a completely different situation. Somalis and Arabs were both Muslims by then and they collaborated on the East African slave trade against the "kuffar" (i.e the native pagan Africans). The majority of slaves (nearly half a million or 2/3rds) in the 18th century exported to Asia and Arabia were shipped from Somali coasts.
We also adopted Arab names after becoming Muslim, we weren't subdued in any way, shape, or form.
Yes.
Lord Flacko
VIP
You're completely of track. During the rise of Islam came with it a rise in knowledge and education, that was primarily in Arabic. Therefore the elite Somali rulers were often educated abroad, spoke Arabic and Somali and brought back the knowledge to everyday Somalis. Through this process Arabic names were adopted, but that's like every other Muslim population on earth (Bosniaks, North Africans, Pakis and Indians)
This was all peaceful. There was never a Somali - Arab war, and if there were the fierce warrior Somali would prevail. There is a reason Somalis were feared and respected by all. Why are you asking for evidence that the Arabs dominated coastal city states? There is none, and the question is silly and offending.
The European Age of discoverybrought Europe's then superpowerthe Portuguese empire to the coast of East Africa, which at the time enjoyed a flourishing trade with foreign nations. The wealthy southeastern city-states of Kilwa, Mombasa, Malindi, Pate and Lamu were all systematically sacked and plundered by the Portuguese. Tristão da Cunha then set his eyes on Ajuran territory, where the battle of Barawa was fought. After a long period of engagement, the Portuguese soldiers burned the city and looted it. However, fierce resistance by the local population and soldiers resulted in the failure of the Portuguese to permanently occupy the city, and the inhabitants who had fled to the interior would eventually return and rebuild the city. After Barawa, Tristão would set sail for Mogadishu, which was the richest city on the East African coast. But word had spread of what had happened in Barawa, and a large troop mobilization had taken place. Many horsemen, soldiers and battleships in defense positions were now guarding the city. Nevertheless, Tristão still opted to storm and attempt to conquer the city, although every officer and soldier in his army opposed this, fearing certain defeat if they were to engage their opponents in battle. Tristão heeded their advice and sailed for Socotra instead.[41] After the battle the city of Barawa quickly recovered from the attack.[42]
In 1660, the Portuguese in Mombasa surrendered to a joint Somali-Omani force.[43]
Over the next several decades Somali-Portuguese tensions would remain high and the increased contact between Somali sailors and Ottoman corsairs worried the Portuguese who sent a punitive expedition against Mogadishu under João de Sepúlveda, which was unsuccessful.[44]Ottoman-Somali cooperation against the Portuguese in the Indian Oceanreached a high point in the 1580s when Ajuran clients of the Somali coastal cities began to sympathize with the Arabs and Swahilis under Portuguese rule and sent an envoy to the Turkish corsair Mir Ali Bey for a joint expedition against the Portuguese. He agreed and was joined by a Somali fleet, which began attacking Portuguese colonies in Southeast Africa.[39]
The Somali-Ottoman offensive managed to drive out the Portuguese from several important cities such as Pate, Mombasa and Kilwa. However, the Portuguese governor sent envoys to Portuguese India requesting a large Portuguese fleet. This request was answered and it reversed the previous offensive of the Muslims into one of defense. The Portuguese armada managed to re-take most of the lost cities and began punishing their leaders, but they refrained from attacking Mogadishu, securing the city's autonomy in the Indian Ocean.[17][45] Ajuran's Somali forces would eventually militarily defeat the Portuguese. The Ottoman Empire would also remain an economic partner of the Somalis.[6] Throughout the 16th and 17th centuries successive Somali Sultans defied the Portuguese economic monopoly in the Indian Ocean by employing a new coinage which followed the Ottoman pattern, thus proclaiming an attitude of economic independence in regard to the Portuguese.[46]
Even the Portuguese Empire, stronger than any Arab force, didnt even dare to attack and occupy Mogadishu! Yet youre sitting here asking for how some measly goat fuckers ran Somali city states and fought us with violence? Have some shame, and then get some pride and don't beg Arabs. We helped free Arabs from the Portuguese even.
Lord Flacko
VIP
Are you madArabs came to Mogadishu and established small colonies, as in the driect defintion "settlement in a foreign land". These colonies were more akin to neighbourhoods where they were put by Somali rulers as they immigrated. They did not establish a colony on all of Mogadishu. It would be like saying Rinkeby in Stockholm is a Somali colony!
Wallahi you're posts are fuckings triggering me "invading Arabs"
gtfoh with your revisionistic abu falafel shit
Prince of Lasanod
Eid trim pending
A few hundred Portuguese soldiers seized complete control of Barawa, looted it and burnt the whole city down. Their force was only in three figures, whilst Somalis had to call get support from both Arabs and Ottomans along with tens of thousand of troops to defend against a small raiding party. The Portuguese were a superpower that were conquering continents, and had no time to waste resources conquering an empty barren land when they could use the same resources colonising great lands that would finance their empire. If they wished, the whole Somali race could have been annihilated, but they have nothing to prove against an insignificant populace.
What have Somalis ever done? The Arabs were producing the worlds greatest mathematicians, conquering Europe, astrologists, science, physicians etc. At one point in history, the whole world had to learn Arabic if they wanted to learn the secular sciences. Baghdad was the greatest city on earth at one point and the centre of learning and commerce. The Islamic/Arab golden age is one of the main reasons why Europe propspered as far as they did. Humble yourself. Arabs have destroyed both the Persian Empire and the Roman Empire, which were both the greatest superpowers at the time. The only thing Somalis have made is 50 words for a camel.
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Lord Flacko
VIP
The local population of Barawa fought back and kicked out the Portuguese. No help from other forces like Ottomans. When the Portuguese saw how they got karbashed by a local population,
they got scared and EVERY officer and soldier didn't want to attack Mogadishu knowing they'd fail horribly.
Humble myself? You should change your name to Abeed of Arab. You're pathetic. One day spouting about how Somalis are different races, other talking about your self hatred and bootyclapping for Arabs. Go join them in their land if you love them so much.
DuctTape
I have an IQ of 300
Prince of Lasanod
Eid trim pending
It seems time and time after again that when I debunk your lies, and remaking of history, I am described as a self hater that loves Arab. I am a realist. I don't need to believe in lies to make myself feel better, as if my honour and pride depends on the history of dead men who could potentially be from my ethnicity.
"In 1506, Barawa was reduced to ashes by the Portuguese fleet and became a major Portuguese port, but in league with other coastal towns, it liberated itself from Portuguese rule in 1758 when it became part of the coastal alliances led by the Zanzibar Sultanate."
Visual representation of what "ashes" is so you can condense this paragraph (book written by the Somali professor Mohamed Haji Mukhtar) perfectly:
Another source: "Further on along the coast is a town well walled, and built of good houses of stone and whitewash, which is called Brava. It has not got a king; it is governed by its elders, they seem honourable and respectable persons. It is a place of trade, which has already been destroyed by the Portuguese, with great slaughter of its inhabitants, of whom many were made captives, and great riches in gold, silver and other merchandise were taken here, and those escaped fled to the country, and after the place was destroyed they returned the people to it."
"A Description of the Coasts of East Africa and Malabar in the beginning of the Sixteenth Century" by Duarte Barbosa
Didn't know "great slaughter", "reduced to ashes", "place was destroyed" etc could be translated to a victory, but this is a Somali forum after all.
Just to let you know, the Portuguese had no idea who the Ajuurans were and they went to the East African coasts to reduce the Arab influence there and were successful, on their way to Socotra island (which they later successfully conquered) with a small raiding party he completely decimated Barawa. The Portuguese did not know nor care about the Ajuuran's and their mission in East Africa had nothing to do with them, but like usual, insecure Somalis love twisting history. But my time here is done.
Lord Flacko
VIP
Nobody is saying the Portuguese didn't attack Barawa. They, withouth warning of expectation, attacked Barawa, looted and burned the city, as is stated in the qoutes I qouted. Are you literate?
But the locals of Barawa regrouped and fought the Portuguese sending them away from the city, and the city quickly rose again. This was withouth military help from Ajuuran Sultanate or the Ottoman Empire. After the Portuguese were kicked out, Tristhao wanted to attack Mogadishu, the richest city on the East African coast. But the Ajuuran and ruling people had heard ot the Portuguese and were prepared. They amassed massive armies, cavalries, navies and fortified their walls. All the Portuguese soldiers and officiers, who knew how they got karbashed after having the upper hand and element of surprise, knew they wouldn't come close to capturing Mogadishu. They pleased Tristhao to not attack, and he eventually agreed and set sail for Socotra instead. Masha'allah when prepared the Somali people are fierceful.
READ BELOW - READ BELOW - READ BELOW - READ BELOW - READ BELOW
"He then steered for Magadoxo. The people at this place made a very formidable appearance : great numbers of foot, and cuiraffiers were patrolling on the shore ; the walls of the city lined with armed men, and a confiderable body of troops drawn up before it. Coutign being afraid to land, sent one of the Bravan captives to let the people know that the Portuguese came not to denounce war, but to offer peace. In Coutign's sight they tore to pieces the captive, and threatened to serve him in the same manner, if he could dare to come ashore. Coutign therefore returned to Cugna, to whom he ralted the cruelty and insolent menaces of the enemy. Cugna was for storming the city, but at the perfuations of all his officers and pilots, he dropped this resolution. The place was almost inaccesible, strong by its natural situation, and defended by a numerous garrifon, the station of our ships extremely dangerous, and very much exposed to the enemy. Cigna therefore with all expedition failed sailed for Socotra."
STRAIGHT from the medievial Portuguese themselves! @Madara x you need to read this too. Oh how they talk about Mogadishu brings a chill down my spine
DuctTape
I have an IQ of 300
White Pearl of the Indian Ocean indeedNobody is saying the Portuguese didn't attack Barawa. They, withouth warning of expectation, attacked Barawa, looted and burned the city, as is stated in the qoutes I qouted. Are you literate?
But the locals of Barawa regrouped and fought the Portuguese sending them away from the city, and the city quickly rose again. This was withouth military help from Ajuuran Sultanate or the Ottoman Empire. After the Portuguese were kicked out, Tristhao wanted to attack Mogadishu, the richest city on the East African coast. But the Ajuuran and ruling people had heard ot the Portuguese and were prepared. They amassed massive armies, cavalries, navies and fortified their walls. All the Portuguese soldiers and officiers, who knew how they got karbashed after having the upper hand and element of surprise, knew they wouldn't come close to capturing Mogadishu. They pleased Tristhao to not attack, and he eventually agreed and set sail for Socotra instead. Masha'allah when prepared the Somali people are fierceful.
View attachment 11425
READ BELOW - READ BELOW - READ BELOW - READ BELOW - READ BELOW
"He then steered for Magadoxo. The people at this place mad a very formidable appearance : great numbers of foot, and cuiraffiers were patrolling on the shore ; the walls of the city lined with armed men, and a confiderable body of troops drawn up before it. Coutign being afraid to land, sent one of the Bravan captives to let the people know that the Portuguese came not to denounce war, but to offer peace. In Coutign's sight they tore to pieces the captive, and threatened to serve him in the same manner, if he could dare to come ashore. Coutign therefore returned to Cugna, to whom he ralted the cruelty and insolent menaces of the enemy. Cugna was for storming the city, but at the perfuations of all his officers and pilots, he dropped this resolution. The place was almost inaccesible, strong by its natural situation, and defended by a numerous garrifon, the station of our ships extremely dangerous, and very much exposed to the enemy. Cigna therefore with all expedition failed sailed for Socotra."
STRAIGHT from the medievial Portuguese themselves! @Madara x you need to read this too. Oh how they talk about Mogadishu brings a chill down my spine
Sxb we need to return to our former glory. We have been reduced to memes in the past 30 years
People use Mogadishu/Somalia in their analogies when saying somewhere is a hellhole
Somalia ha noolato
Madara x
Sleep soundly
I understand that the general opinion that most people have regarding Somali-Arab relations, is similar to yours.
Still, i find it difficult to believe that we willingly (and peacefully) accepted Islam without any resistance to the Arab visitors who decided to tell us how to live.
I do wonder tho, where exactly is it written that the somalis "peacefully accepted islam without any resistance"?
Sudan had almost 20 centuries of combat with Arabs which led to the eventual seperation of the nation into north and south sudan. This is a totally different topic. Hopefully we will get more acquainted withe violence the Arabs committed against the whole continent of Africa (including us), when i finish uploading my series on the pre-history of Africa on my youtube channel.
Don't forget to subscribeMost of the 'Muslim world' was conquered by the Arabs. This was one of the many ways that Islam was spread.
What makes you think that we Somalis were not conquered too? What military or economic advantage did we have that made the task of conquering us so difficult?
Please share facts. Book pages and other references are appreciated.
TheLibertarianQuiche
Quintessentially negroid: Your problem?
Interesting.
TheLibertarianQuiche
Quintessentially negroid: Your problem?
Your contribution here is probably one of the most valuable things i've come across.
I'm going to do a series on Pre-history of Africa and you've just given me the old names of our current Somali cities
I think cushites were the first to be engaged with the inhabitants of the somali terriories. Ancient Egyptians came after.
The greeks literaly came towards the 1st A.D So they basically have no say. They are super late in the game.
Could you direct me to a map of Africa that has all the old names (like sarapion etc) of our current world?
Also these names are most greek names right? So what were the indigenous names of these areas?
Done
The map isn't accurate as Opone has been proved to be Haafun and Sarapion is in Banadir.
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