Medieval trade routes: Which Islamic explorer visited (& wrote about) Mogadishu in the 13th century?

[Bernie Madoff]

Sarapion would've been a dope name for Mogadishu

 

[Madara x]

I don't think that an Arab - Somali war occurred but from what I've read is that the foreigners had to unite against the Somalis that surrounded the coastal cities like Mogadishu, after Arab domination it led to a joint Somali - Arab rule leading path for the Ajuuran's to eventually dominate the south and take control of Mogadishu and other Southern cities.

The Arab slave trade is a completely different situation. Somalis and Arabs were both Muslims by then and they collaborated on the East African slave trade against the "kuffar" (i.e the native pagan Africans). The majority of slaves (nearly half a million or 2/3rds) in the 18th century exported to Asia and Arabia were shipped from Somali coasts.

We also adopted Arab names after becoming Muslim, we weren't subdued in any way, shape, or form.

View attachment 11408
View attachment 11409


Yes.

Somalis lived in horn's territories since pre-history.
These cities just had different names (ex: Mogadishu was called sarapion).
So we can't dispute the fact that we inhabited those areas much before any Arab could have arrived there.

So, if we controlled these territories for a long long time, then the idea that "foreigners had to unite against Somalis that surrounded the coast cities" (line 2 of your response) means that there was some type of war that occurred. Foreigners unifying against a common enemy (which is us, as you've stated) indicates that there was a military situation.

And you've clearly agreed that we were "dominated" (line two of your response), so doesn't that contradict the idea that "we weren't subdued in any way, shape, or form" (last line of your response).

Adopting the names of the conquerors is a ritual that occurs whenever the opposition is defeated.
It is a sign that the loosing side has recognized its own inferiority and the superiority of its conquerors.
It happened with the natives in the Americas, it happened with the African Americans, and it also happened with the Sudanese who live in the north.

What makes you think it didn't happen with us?

 

[Madara x]

You're completely of track. During the rise of Islam came with it a rise in knowledge and education, that was primarily in Arabic. Therefore the elite Somali rulers were often educated abroad, spoke Arabic and Somali and brought back the knowledge to everyday Somalis. Through this process Arabic names were adopted, but that's like every other Muslim population on earth (Bosniaks, North Africans, Pakis and Indians)
View attachment 11419 And examples are Sa'id of Mogadishu and 1. Sultan of Mogadishu Abu Bakr who both had received education in Arabic but where very much Somalis. And Somalis adopted some Arabic/Muslim names while retaining many original Somali ones too. We only have Arabic/Muslim names because of Islam, not because of it being forced upon us.

This was all peaceful. There was never a Somali - Arab war, and if there were the fierce warrior Somali would prevail. There is a reason Somalis were feared and respected by all. Why are you asking for evidence that the Arabs dominated coastal city states? There is none, and the question is silly and offending.


Even the Portuguese Empire, stronger than any Arab force, didnt even dare to attack and occupy Mogadishu! Yet youre sitting here asking for how some measly goat fuckers ran Somali city states and fought us with violence? Have some shame, and then get some pride and don't beg Arabs. We helped free Arabs from the Portuguese even.

First of all, there is no need to be offensive.
Let's keep this civil. Saying i don't have pride is disrespectful.

Secondly, we need to separate fact from fiction.

I agree that elite Somali rulers and scribes were educated abroad in Arabic institutions and also in African Muslim nations. I also know that we've retained a portion of our original names even after the arrival of Arabs, so i agree with you there as well.

These facts, however, don't contradict the idea that the Somalis were dominated and ruled by the Arabs, and that there could have been potentially a violent military war between Somalis and Arabs (prior to the spread of Islam in our lands).

As you well know, the italians, french, and british, all violently dominated Somali territories for a very long time. And afterwards, many somali elites were educated in Italian, french, and british universities abroad.
This fact does not erase the reality of violent colonial domination.

Your last comment regarding us helping Arabs from the Portuguese is confusing. Please clarify it.

 

[Madara x]

Nobody is saying the Portuguese didn't attack Barawa. They, withouth warning of expectation, attacked Barawa, looted and burned the city, as is stated in the qoutes I qouted. Are you literate?


But the locals of Barawa regrouped and fought the Portuguese sending them away from the city, and the city quickly rose again. This was withouth military help from Ajuuran Sultanate or the Ottoman Empire. After the Portuguese were kicked out, Tristhao wanted to attack Mogadishu, the richest city on the East African coast. But the Ajuuran and ruling people had heard ot the Portuguese and were prepared. They amassed massive armies, cavalries, navies and fortified their walls. All the Portuguese soldiers and officiers, who knew how they got karbashed after having the upper hand and element of surprise, knew they wouldn't come close to capturing Mogadishu. They pleased Tristhao to not attack, and he eventually agreed and set sail for Socotra instead. Masha'allah when prepared the Somali people are fierceful.

View attachment 11425
READ BELOW - READ BELOW - READ BELOW - READ BELOW - READ BELOW

"He then steered for Magadoxo. The people at this place made a very formidable appearance : great numbers of foot, and cuiraffiers were patrolling on the shore ; the walls of the city lined with armed men, and a confiderable body of troops drawn up before it. Coutign being afraid to land, sent one of the Bravan captives to let the people know that the Portuguese came not to denounce war, but to offer peace. In Coutign's sight they tore to pieces the captive, and threatened to serve him in the same manner, if he could dare to come ashore. Coutign therefore returned to Cugna, to whom he ralted the cruelty and insolent menaces of the enemy. Cugna was for storming the city, but at the perfuations of all his officers and pilots, he dropped this resolution. The place was almost inaccesible, strong by its natural situation, and defended by a numerous garrifon, the station of our ships extremely dangerous, and very much exposed to the enemy. Cigna therefore with all expedition failed sailed for Socotra."



STRAIGHT from the medievial Portuguese themselves! @Madara x you need to read this too. Oh how they talk about Mogadishu brings a chill down my spine

Very useful information Indeed.

Having this would have helped when i was preparing my somali-history series.

I have a section on the portugues-somali wars and the role of Ethiopia in it.
Hopefully it will general even more fruitful discussion.

 

[Lord Flacko]

These facts, however, don't contradict the idea that the Somalis were dominated and ruled by the Arabs, and that there could have been potentially a violent military war between Somalis and Arabs (prior to the spread of Islam in our lands).

As you well know, the italians, french, and british, all violently dominated Somali territories for a very long time. And afterwards, many somali elites were educated in Italian, french, and british universities abroad.
This fact does not erase the reality of violent colonial domination.

Your last comment regarding us helping Arabs from the Portuguese is confusing. Please clarify it.

"The idea we were dominated" Sxb Arabs NEVER dominated Somalis. Some came to our lands as REFUGEES, and they quickly assimilated and intermarried with us. There was no fucking Arab-Somali wars. Islam wasn't forced onto Somalis by anyone. There is no single shred of evidence for this, there is for the opposite however.


North Africa, Europe f.ex got Islam through Arab conquests, and were a part of numerous Caliphates. Only Berbera was a part of Ottoman Empire for a short while, hundreds of years after Islam had settled there, and they weren't forcefully added to the Empire either. Other than that NO Caliphate ruled over Somalis, either violently or/and to spread Islam. Arabic wasn't forced upon us either, like with most of Arabs today. The Ottomen were allies of the Ajuraan, but that's it.

Somalis were NEVER ruled by Arabs. Never.

"The Italians, French and British violently Somalis" kulaha you're making it out to be like we were subject to slavery and massacres. These people never invaded Somali land, they were let in by some ruling forces. These people were nearly karbashed into oblivion by the Dervish alone, when they realised they could never successfully fight Somalis so they played divide and conquer instead where they tried to get Somalis to fight Somalis. After this they realised their relationship with they Somali had to be beneficial in both ways for them to stay, which is seen in as they didn't even dare to try and enslave the Somali

"
“Everytime a Somali got whipped, an Italian soldier was killed.”

“….You get into that way of thinking in the Somali waste. You think
that way because the Somalis bitterly resent the white man, and struggle
continually, and admirably, by lies and intrigue, to fight off his
influence which spells the end of their peculiar world. You cannot beat
them. They have no inferiority complexes, no wide-eyed worship of the
white man’s ways, and no fear of him, of his guns or of his official
anger. They are a race to be admired, if hard to love.”

“There is no one alive as tough as the Somali nomad. No one.
An askari wounded in a fight in the Haud country walked 14 miles holding
his guts in his hand, was sewn up and lived to soldier again. And the
women are as spiritually strong as their men.”

“But of all the races of Africa there cannot be one better to
live among than the most difficult, the proudest, the bravest, the
vainest, the most merciless, the friendliest; the Somalis.”

“A Somali always felt himself to be twice as good as any white man, or
any other kind of man at all, and still does, even when he is wrong.
Islam does wonders for the self respect of non-white people and
Christianity is right to worry about the spread of Islam in Africa, and
must honestly face the question of why it has happened.”

“I knew an Italian priest who had spent over thirty years among the
Somalis and he made two converts, and it amazed me that he got even those two. The Prophet has no more fervent, and ignorant, followers, but that is not their fault that they are ignorant. Their natural intelligence is second to none and when the education factories start work among them they should surprise Africa, and themselves.”

“Wandering in The Shag (desert) were Somalis with some of the sharpest
intelligences in the continent, nomads who had been forced into being
parasites of the camel, for centuries, and could anyone ever find a way
of using all that courage and intelligence?”

“The bravest, most merciless but, when they accept you, the friendliest of African peoples, the Somalis are also among the most intelligent. If they could overcome centuries of mayhem and murder, they could transform a dangerous African dustbin into a prosperous, modern state.”

‘Warriors’ by Gerald Hanley"
Yet you're here asking to know how Somalis were dominated, massacred and enslaved en masse. Where is your pride and sense of shame for the shit you've spewn?

 

[Lord Flacko]

Your last comment regarding us helping Arabs from the Portuguese is confusing. Please clarify it.

Over the next several decades Somali-Portuguese tensions would remain high and the increased contact between Somali sailors and Ottoman corsairs worried the Portuguese who sent a punitive expedition against Mogadishu under João de Sepúlveda, which was unsuccessful.[44] Ottoman-Somali cooperation against the Portuguese in the Indian Oceanreached a high point in the 1580s when Ajuran clients of the Somali coastal cities began to sympathize with the Arabs and Swahilis under Portuguese rule and sent an envoy to the Turkish corsair Mir Ali Bey for a joint expedition against the Portuguese. He agreed and was joined by a Somali fleet, which began attacking Portuguese colonies in Southeast Africa.[39]

The Somali-Ottoman offensive managed to drive out the Portuguese from several important cities such as Pate, Mombasa and Kilwa.

"b-b-but tell me how were we dominated again by Abu falafel?" Learn to do research son.

 

[Lord Flacko]

I understand that the general opinion that most people have regarding Somali-Arab relations, is similar to yours.

Still, i find it difficult to believe that we willingly (and peacefully) accepted Islam without any resistance to the Arab visitors who decided to tell us how to live.

I do wonder tho, where exactly is it written that the somalis "peacefully accepted islam without any resistance"?

Sudan had almost 20 centuries of combat with Arabs which led to the eventual seperation of the nation into north and south sudan. This is a totally different topic. Hopefully we will get more acquainted withe violence the Arabs committed against the whole continent of Africa (including us), when i finish uploading my series on the pre-history of Africa on my youtube channel. Don't forget to subscribe

Most of the 'Muslim world' was conquered by the Arabs. This was one of the many ways that Islam was spread.

What makes you think that we Somalis were not conquered too? What military or economic advantage did we have that made the task of conquering us so difficult?

Please share facts. Book pages and other references are appreciated.

Why is it weird that Islam was peacefully accepted by the Somali? The Arab visitors were subjugated to our rule. Why mix us with the Sudanese who were violently raped and identify solely as Arab and only speak Arabic.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests Somalis are entirely absent. If Arabs had conquered Somalis there would have been historical evidence to prove this. And the first Mosques in Mogadishu were built by the Somali (Abu Bakr, who was from Berbera) not by the Arab. There were already Muslim Somalis in Zeylac in the 9th century. When several Arab cartographer mentions Somalis, our society and Islam in Somali lands, but never any conquest of any time, that should be enough evidence for you alone. Couple that with everything I've said and you should know better by now.


"Hopefully we will get more acquainted with the violence the Arabs committed against us " You're fucking lost. Wallahi Bilahi hope no one watches your channel because you're actively trying to be a victim and Arab revisionist. It's utterly disgusting

"What makes you think that we Somalis were not conquered too? What military or economic advantage did we have that made the task of conquering us so difficult?" the fact that we were a fierce and warrior people who dominate the exterior and interior of the Horn maybe? Fucking White Colonialsts had more admiration and respect for the Somali than you do

 

[DuctTape]

Why is it weird that Islam was peacefully accepted by the Somali? The Arab visitors were subjugated to our rule. Why mix us with the Sudanese who were violently raped and identify solely as Arab and only speak Arabic.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests Somalis are entirely absent. If Arabs had conquered Somalis there would have been historical evidence to prove this. And the first Mosques in Mogadishu were built by the Somali (Abu Bakr, who was from Berbera) not by the Arab. There were already Muslim Somalis in Zeylac in the 9th century. When several Arab cartographer mentions Somalis, our society and Islam in Somali lands, but never any conquest of any time, that should be enough evidence for you alone. Couple that with everything I've said and you should know better by now.


"Hopefully we will get more acquainted with the violence the Arabs committed against us " You're fucking lost. Wallahi Bilahi hope no one watches your channel because you're actively trying to be a victim and Arab revisionist. It's utterly disgusting

"What makes you think that we Somalis were not conquered too? What military or economic advantage did we have that made the task of conquering us so difficult?" the fact that we were a fierce and warrior people who dominate the exterior and interior of the Horn maybe? Fucking White Colonialsts had more admiration and respect for the Somali than you do

Thank you for responding much more concisely to his bizarre points than I ever could. This guy seems fixated on the idea that we as a people were dominated and colonised and even implied that we were enslaved by Arabs. Horta do you have some kind of humiliation fetish? It would explain this odd fixation on making it seem like we were controlled by outside forces for hundreds of years.
"Sudan had almost 20 centuries of combat with Arabs which led to the eventual seperation of the nation into north and south sudan."
So? Indonesia, the country with the largest number of muslims on the planet had no "Arab conquest" or "domination". Just peaceful conversion. Contrary to popular belief Islam wasn't spread by the sword. EDIT: @Prince of Hobyo I just realised I reiterated your point about Sudan

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

Somalis lived in horn's territories since pre-history.
These cities just had different names (ex: Mogadishu was called sarapion).
So we can't dispute the fact that we inhabited those areas much before any Arab could have arrived there.

So, if we controlled these territories for a long long time, then the idea that "foreigners had to unite against Somalis that surrounded the coast cities" (line 2 of your response) means that there was some type of war that occurred. Foreigners unifying against a common enemy (which is us, as you've stated) indicates that there was a military situation.

And you've clearly agreed that we were "dominated" (line two of your response), so doesn't that contradict the idea that "we weren't subdued in any way, shape, or form" (last line of your response).

Adopting the names of the conquerors is a ritual that occurs whenever the opposition is defeated.
It is a sign that the loosing side has recognized its own inferiority and the superiority of its conquerors.
It happened with the natives in the Americas, it happened with the African Americans, and it also happened with the Sudanese who live in the north.

What makes you think it didn't happen with us?

Sudan, also known as Nubia, has been in contact with Islam ever since the Muslims conquered Egypt. However, the spread of Islam was blocked from entering Sudan due to the Nubian state and their strong adherence and attachment to the Christian faith. The Muslims who conquered Egypt eventually tried to enter Nubia in the year 651 but they were met with fierce resistance and were forced to seek a truce.

Somalis on the other hand did not have any strong state that fought off invaders or any foreign religions like the Nubians did. At most you could say we had coastal cities, if even that. So there wasn't any major attraction that the Arabs had with us. We didn't share a border with them, and they did not want to conquer us as we didn't have any state worth conquering, that's assuming they even knew who we are.

Continuing on with Sudan, the pact or treaty maintained the independence of the Christian Nubian state as long as the lives of the Muslims were safeguarded. Therefore, the Sudanese were not actually subdued militarily, nor were they conquered. In reality, they maintained their autonomous status.

So how did Sudan become Islam-ised and eventually Arab-ised? Well, the treaty included the free movement of people between the states of Egypt and Nubia. In short, many nomadic Arab tribes moved into Nubia and they intermarried with the locals + tribal chiefs and they started to gain prominence. Their children would then go on to become chiefs, and through this it led to the establishment of powerful Muslim lineages. Though you could say that Islam first entered into Sudan through direct military confrontation with the intention of conquest where the Muslims were not successful, Islam penetrated into Sudan through intermarriage and the integration of Arabs into the Nubian society whilst the Muslim state maintained somewhat of an influence though they were friendly neighbours.

~to be continued.

 

[Lord Flacko]

Somalis on the other hand did not have any strong state that fought off invaders or any foreign religions like the Nubians did. At most you could say we had coastal cities, if even that. So there wasn't any major attraction that the Arabs had with us. We didn't share a border with them, and they did not want to conquer us as we didn't have any state worth conquering, that's assuming they even knew who we are.

Oh now you're circling back and saying Somalis were irrelevant and unknown?

"Somalis on the other hand did not have any strong state that fought off invaders or any foreign religions like the Nubians did."
Except the Ajuraan Sultanate fought off the Portuguese several times, and the Adal Sultanate crushed the Xabashi and captured their lands.

"At most you could say we had coastal cities, if even that." We had several Sultanate and Kingdoms that fought off invaders and captured vast lands for Somalis. How the f*ck do you think we got the most land for one ethnic group in Africa?

"So there wasn't any major attraction that the Arabs had with us. We didn't share a border with them, and they did not want to conquer us as we didn't have any state worth conquering,"
We had vast resources that we traded, which secured us on the global map. Why do you think Arab traders came to Somali city states? We had the richest city on the East African coast in Mogadishu, which heavily tempted the Portuguese themselves (but you already know how that turned out now.

"We didn't share a border with them, and they did not want to conquer us as we didn't have any state worth conquering, that's assuming they even knew who we are."

Damn you really have alot of self hate. First you say they conquered us then this smh. They never conquered us not because we had nothing. We had plenty, which is why even the Chinese traded with us. And if they didn't know who we were why would Greek cartographer mention us, then several Arab travellers and cartographers like Ibn Hawqal, Ibn Battuta and Ibn Yaqoub. They all visited our lands and spoke of our people. So did the Chinese again, who visited our lands several times for trade

Somalis, or dark skinned Berbers, have been known for a long time. We've also been feared and respected for just as long if not longer

But I'd say we rose greatly in prominence after the rise of Islam

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

Oh now you're circling back and saying Somalis were irrelevant and unknown?

"Somalis on the other hand did not have any strong state that fought off invaders or any foreign religions like the Nubians did."
Except the Ajuraan Sultanate fought off the Portuguese several times, and the Adal Sultanate crushed the Xabashi and captured their lands.

"At most you could say we had coastal cities, if even that." We had several Sultanate and Kingdoms that fought off invaders and captured vast lands for Somalis. How the f*ck do you think we got the most land for one ethnic group in Africa?

"So there wasn't any major attraction that the Arabs had with us. We didn't share a border with them, and they did not want to conquer us as we didn't have any state worth conquering,"
We had vast resources that we traded, which secured us on the global map. Why do you think Arab traders came to Somali city states? We had the richest city on the East African coast in Mogadishu, which heavily tempted the Portuguese themselves (but you already know how that turned out now.

"We didn't share a border with them, and they did not want to conquer us as we didn't have any state worth conquering, that's assuming they even knew who we are."

Damn you really have alot of self hate. First you say they conquered us then this smh. They never conquered us not because we had nothing. We had plenty, which is why even the Chinese traded with us. And if they didn't know who we were why would Greek cartographer mention us, then several Arab travellers and cartographers like Ibn Hawqal, Ibn Battuta and Ibn Yaqoub. They all visited our lands and spoke of our people. So did the Chinese again, who visited our lands several times for tradeView attachment 11442


Somalis, or dark skinned Berbers, have been known for a long time. We've also been feared and respected for just as long if not longer

But I'd say we rose greatly in prominence after the rise of Islam

The Sudanese had a Christian Nubian state in the 7th century before Islam. The Somali ethnic group on the other hand did not have any state before Islam and the fact that you referenced the Ajuuran and the Adal empire highlights this. Both of them were Islamic states that came about centuries after Somalis became Muslim.

Perhaps you should read next time before drawing clumsy conclusions. My post(that I will finish when I come back later) was about Somalis pre-Islam and why the conclusions @Madara x drew to Sudan and us is incomparable.

 

[Lord Flacko]

The Sudanese had a Christian Nubian state in the 7th century before Islam. The Somali ethnic group on the other hand did not have any state before Islam and the fact that you referenced the Ajuuran and the Adal empire highlights this. Both of them were Islamic states that came about centuries after Somalis became Muslim.

Perhaps you should read next time before drawing clumsy conclusions. My post(that I will finish when I come back later) was about Somalis pre-Islam and why the conclusions @Madara x drew to Sudan and us is incomparable.

Sudanis were raped and forced into complete Arabzation. Somalis were not, so it's Sudanese people and Somalis aren't similar. Arabs that came to Somalia were Somalized and intermarried.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabization Somalis or Somalia aren't mentioned at all. Meanwhile they have an entire extensive section dedicated to the Sudanese. Go figure

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

Sudanis were raped and forced into complete Arabzation. Somalis were not, so it's Sudanese people and Somalis aren't similar. Arabs that came to Somalia were Somalized and intermarried.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabization Somalis or Somalia aren't mentioned at all. Meanwhile they have an entire extensive section dedicated to the Sudanese. Go figure

Complete lies and disortation of history. The Nubian Christian state forced the Muslims into a truce that lasted for over 700(!) years, which is one of longest ancient international treaties in history. The Muslim state (in Egypt) and Nubia were friendly neighbours. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Also, the person who stated that the Sudanese and the Somalis Islam-ization were similar was @Madara x, if you were able to read I was countering his argument but I don't think you're able to comprehend that with your intelligence.

Let me repost what I said again as it appears you didn't digest it well.

Sudan, also known as Nubia, has been in contact with Islam ever since the Muslims conquered Egypt. However, the spread of Islam was blocked from entering Sudan due to the Nubian state and their strong adherence and attachment to the Christian faith. The Muslims who conquered Egypt eventually tried to enter Nubia in the year 651 but they were met with fierce resistance and were forced to seek a truce.

Continuing on with Sudan, the pact or treaty maintained the independence of the Christian Nubian state as long as the lives of the Muslims were safeguarded. Therefore, the Sudanese were not actually subdued militarily, nor were they conquered. In reality, they maintained their autonomous status.

So how did Sudan become Islam-ised and eventually Arab-ised? Well, the treaty included the free movement of people between the states of Egypt and Nubia. In short, many nomadic Arab tribes moved into Nubia and they intermarried with the locals + tribal chiefs and they started to gain prominence. Their children would then go on to become chiefs, and through this it led to the establishment of powerful Muslim lineages. Though you could say that Islam first entered into Sudan through direct military confrontation with the intention of conquest where the Muslims were not successful, Islam penetrated into Sudan through intermarriage and the integration of Arabs into the Nubian society whilst the Muslim state maintained somewhat of an influence though they were friendly neighbours.

 

[Lord Flacko]

Complete lies and disortation of history. The Nubian Christian state forced the Muslims into a truce that lasted for over 700(!) years, which is one of longest ancient international treaties in history. The Muslim state (in Egypt) and Nubia were friendly neighbours. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Also, the person who stated that the Sudanese and the Somalis Islam-ization were similar was @Madara x, if you were able to read I was countering his argument but I don't think you're able to comprehend that with your intelligence.

Let me repost what I said again as it appears you didn't digest it well.

I posted legitimate historical evidence. This

Sudanis were raped and forced into complete Arabzation. Somalis were not, so it's Sudanese people and Somalis aren't similar. Arabs that came to Somalia were Somalized and intermarried.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabization Somalis or Somalia aren't mentioned at all. Meanwhile they have an entire extensive section dedicated to the Sudanese. Go figure

post, that I fully stand by, went out to everybody not just directly you, but mostly @Madara x and you.

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

Sudan, also known as Nubia, has been in contact with Islam ever since the Muslims conquered Egypt. However, the spread of Islam was blocked from entering Sudan due to the Nubian state and their strong adherence and attachment to the Christian faith. The Muslims who conquered Egypt eventually tried to enter Nubia in the year 651 but they were met with fierce resistance and were forced to seek a truce.

Somalis on the other hand did not have any strong state that fought off invaders or any foreign religions like the Nubians did. At most you could say we had coastal cities, if even that. So there wasn't any major attraction that the Arabs had with us. We didn't share a border with them, and they did not want to conquer us as we didn't have any state worth conquering, that's assuming they even knew who we are.

Continuing on with Sudan, the pact or treaty maintained the independence of the Christian Nubian state as long as the lives of the Muslims were safeguarded. Therefore, the Sudanese were not actually subdued militarily, nor were they conquered. In reality, they maintained their autonomous status.

So how did Sudan become Islam-ised and eventually Arab-ised? Well, the treaty included the free movement of people between the states of Egypt and Nubia. In short, many nomadic Arab tribes moved into Nubia and they intermarried with the locals + tribal chiefs and they started to gain prominence. Their children would then go on to become chiefs, and through this it led to the establishment of powerful Muslim lineages. Though you could say that Islam first entered into Sudan through direct military confrontation with the intention of conquest where the Muslims were not successful, Islam penetrated into Sudan through intermarriage and the integration of Arabs into the Nubian society whilst the Muslim state maintained somewhat of an influence though they were friendly neighbours.

~to be continued.

Yes thats correct, Nubia was subjugated by the Arabs in that humiliating treaty which allowed Nubia to continue being independent, but Arab visitors where to have a special status in Nubia, However, Nubian visitors where not given special privileges when they visited Arab lands. Whereas, Ancient Somalia was divided into city-states; the way Islam spread in Somalia is obscure because it hasn't been recorded (not that i know of). However, its generally accepted that the Arabs never conquered our lands, therefore our ancestors willingly embraced Islam because they saw the truth in it.

 

[Madara x]

Somalis lived in horn's territories since pre-history.
These cities just had different names (ex: Mogadishu was called sarapion).
So we can't dispute the fact that we inhabited those areas much before any Arab could have arrived there.

So, if we controlled these territories for a long long time, then the idea that "foreigners had to unite against Somalis that surrounded the coast cities" (line 2 of your response) means that there was some type of war that occurred. Foreigners unifying against a common enemy (which is us, as you've stated) indicates that there was a military situation.

And you've clearly agreed that we were "dominated" (line two of your response), so doesn't that contradict the idea that "we weren't subdued in any way, shape, or form" (last line of your response).

Adopting the names of the conquerors is a ritual that occurs whenever the conquerors are defeated.
It is a sign that the loosing side has recognized its own inferiority and the superiority of its conquerors.
It happened with the natives in the Americas, it happened with the African Americans, and it also happened with the Sudanese who live in the north.

What makes you think it didn't happen with us?

"The idea we were dominated" Sxb Arabs NEVER dominated Somalis. Some came to our lands as REFUGEES, and they quickly assimilated and intermarried with us. There was no fucking Arab-Somali wars. Islam wasn't forced onto Somalis by anyone. There is no single shred of evidence for this, there is for the opposite however.


North Africa, Europe f.ex got Islam through Arab conquests, and were a part of numerous Caliphates. Only Berbera was a part of Ottoman Empire for a short while, hundreds of years after Islam had settled there, and they weren't forcefully added to the Empire either. Other than that NO Caliphate ruled over Somalis, either violently or/and to spread Islam. Arabic wasn't forced upon us either, like with most of Arabs today. The Ottomen were allies of the Ajuraan, but that's it.

Somalis were NEVER ruled by Arabs. Never.

"The Italians, French and British violently Somalis" kulaha you're making it out to be like we were subject to slavery and massacres. These people never invaded Somali land, they were let in by some ruling forces. These people were nearly karbashed into oblivion by the Dervish alone, when they realised they could never successfully fight Somalis so they played divide and conquer instead where they tried to get Somalis to fight Somalis. After this they realised their relationship with they Somali had to be beneficial in both ways for them to stay, which is seen in as they didn't even dare to try and enslave the Somali

"
“Everytime a Somali got whipped, an Italian soldier was killed.”

“….You get into that way of thinking in the Somali waste. You think
that way because the Somalis bitterly resent the white man, and struggle
continually, and admirably, by lies and intrigue, to fight off his
influence which spells the end of their peculiar world. You cannot beat
them. They have no inferiority complexes, no wide-eyed worship of the
white man’s ways, and no fear of him, of his guns or of his official
anger. They are a race to be admired, if hard to love.”

“There is no one alive as tough as the Somali nomad. No one.
An askari wounded in a fight in the Haud country walked 14 miles holding
his guts in his hand, was sewn up and lived to soldier again. And the
women are as spiritually strong as their men.”

“But of all the races of Africa there cannot be one better to
live among than the most difficult, the proudest, the bravest, the
vainest, the most merciless, the friendliest; the Somalis.”

“A Somali always felt himself to be twice as good as any white man, or
any other kind of man at all, and still does, even when he is wrong.
Islam does wonders for the self respect of non-white people and
Christianity is right to worry about the spread of Islam in Africa, and
must honestly face the question of why it has happened.”

“I knew an Italian priest who had spent over thirty years among the
Somalis and he made two converts, and it amazed me that he got even those two. The Prophet has no more fervent, and ignorant, followers, but that is not their fault that they are ignorant. Their natural intelligence is second to none and when the education factories start work among them they should surprise Africa, and themselves.”

“Wandering in The Shag (desert) were Somalis with some of the sharpest
intelligences in the continent, nomads who had been forced into being
parasites of the camel, for centuries, and could anyone ever find a way
of using all that courage and intelligence?”

“The bravest, most merciless but, when they accept you, the friendliest of African peoples, the Somalis are also among the most intelligent. If they could overcome centuries of mayhem and murder, they could transform a dangerous African dustbin into a prosperous, modern state.”

‘Warriors’ by Gerald Hanley"
Yet you're here asking to know how Somalis were dominated, massacred and enslaved en masse. Where is your pride and sense of shame for the shit you've spewn?

I must say, i think that you've been misinformed. The image you paint is quite distorted.
This idea that you have, that we are strong mighty dignified warriors is very interesting.
I understand that ideas such as these are useful for building self-esteem. But is there any truth in them?

You have given me a lot of good opinions. Everyone has opinions. I appreciate your opinions.
One solid idea, that i accept from your end, is that it hasn't been proven (yet) that we were dominated and ruled forcefully by the Arabs.

Do you have any proof (texts preferred) for this statement that you made: "NO Caliphate ruled over Somalis, either violently or/and to spread Islam". I apologize if you've already presented your evidence and i've overlooked it.

On another note, I know about the dervishes and what they did much more than you can imagine; and their bravery was (and still is) unparalleled. We'll discuss them another day.

Also, for your information, a person can have pride and still dare to ask difficult questions.

 

[Madara x]

"b-b-but tell me how were we dominated again by Abu falafel?" Learn to do research son.

Loooooool

why are you citing wikipedia?

This is hilarious. But it's w/e because i checked the actual books your referred to. One of them dosen't even exit (The link for the Ajuuran empire) because When i clicked on the link on the wikipedia page it is not working. And the second one was written by a white dude. lol

I guess we can all create our own historical accounts if this is what people call research nowadays.

 

[DuctTape]

Loooooool

why are you citing wikipedia?

This is hilarious. But it's w/e because i checked the actual books your referred to. One of them dosen't even exit (The link for the Ajuuran empire) because When i clicked on the link on the wikipedia page it is not working. And the second one was written by a white dude. lol

I guess we can all create our own historical accounts if this is what people call research nowadays.

I don't understand. What does the author being a white person have to do with the historical validity of the source? And if he had some kind of racist agenda to "whitewash" or underplay the achievements of Africans, wouldn't he do the opposite, and underplay instead of seemingly overplaying them from your point of view? It's a little disappointing because so far you've been raising valid and reasonable arguments based on history and empirical evidence. The source itself literally describes Somalis attacking Portuguese fleets if I'm not mistaken, and if that isn't damaging to "muh white pride", then what is? Your argument doesn't make sense. Question a historical source based on how objective or accurate it is, not by the ethnicity of the fucking author.

 

[Madara x]

Why is it weird that Islam was peacefully accepted by the Somali? The Arab visitors were subjugated to our rule. Why mix us with the Sudanese who were violently raped and identify solely as Arab and only speak Arabic.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests Somalis are entirely absent. If Arabs had conquered Somalis there would have been historical evidence to prove this. And the first Mosques in Mogadishu were built by the Somali (Abu Bakr, who was from Berbera) not by the Arab. There were already Muslim Somalis in Zeylac in the 9th century. When several Arab cartographer mentions Somalis, our society and Islam in Somali lands, but never any conquest of any time, that should be enough evidence for you alone. Couple that with everything I've said and you should know better by now.


"Hopefully we will get more acquainted with the violence the Arabs committed against us " You're fucking lost. Wallahi Bilahi hope no one watches your channel because you're actively trying to be a victim and Arab revisionist. It's utterly disgusting

"What makes you think that we Somalis were not conquered too? What military or economic advantage did we have that made the task of conquering us so difficult?" the fact that we were a fierce and warrior people who dominate the exterior and interior of the Horn maybe? Fucking White Colonialsts had more admiration and respect for the Somali than you do

lool I am actually laughing out loud man. Stop dissing me first of all.
I am trying to engage in critical discussion about 'our' history.
There is no need to get emotional and angry.

Also, i do believe that we held our ground and fended off the invaders, but i'm just trynna separate fact from ficiton here and the only way to do that is to ask the questions that people already assume they've answered.

Stop with the personal attacks. It is immature.

 

[Madara x]

Thank you for responding much more concisely to his bizarre points than I ever could. This guy seems fixated on the idea that we as a people were dominated and colonised and even implied that we were enslaved by Arabs. Horta do you have some kind of humiliation fetish? It would explain this odd fixation on making it seem like we were controlled by outside forces for hundreds of years.
"Sudan had almost 20 centuries of combat with Arabs which led to the eventual seperation of the nation into north and south sudan."
So? Indonesia, the country with the largest number of muslims on the planet had no "Arab conquest" or "domination". Just peaceful conversion. Contrary to popular belief Islam wasn't spread by the sword. EDIT: @Prince of Hobyo I just realised I reiterated your point about Sudan

Besides the 'humilation fetish' comment, i appreciate your pointed response.

Giving an example of another nation that wasn't dominated violently by Arabs but that became Muslim nevertheless is a good way of responding.