Migration of T-M184

[Tito_0]

You're

8(siyeed) and 9(sagaal) were initially based on 8 =(6 sons of cadde mirifle and 2 sons of madoowe mirifle )
9=(4 sons of subuge dab omar diin and 5 sons of shariif dalwaaq olmeer qarsin omardiin)

Siyeed:
Two sons of Madoowe Mirifle
1-Ali Madoowe
2-Dhargane Madoowe
Six sons of Cadde Mirifle
3-Yantaar
4-Heledi
5-Barbaare
6-Qoorlabo
7-Qooraabane
8-Daawane

Sagaal:
Four sons of Subuge
1-Juri Subuge
2-Guriile Subuge
3-Warantable Subuge
4-Yerow Subuge
Five sone of Shariif Dalwaaq Olmeer Qarsin Omardiin
5-Sarmi Shariif
6-Hassan Shariif
7-Uthmaan Shariif
8-Yuusuf Shariif
9-Gaayware Shariif

You're preaching to the choir.

I already stated that I didn't not know for sure about the relation to abu bakr Al sadiiq and Omar diin abtiris is said to go through zubair ibn awwam or through Omar abaadir.

Personally I have no knowledge. Only know about my own the rest are a side note.

HOGOL LING HILOWSINAAYI by Isaak Eething Hassing "Isak Doolow" that's where I got my info about the abtiris and family members. He is a joroon from madowe mirifle.

Whether they were wrong or right is the reason that drove me to YDNA test.

If what you posted in true or not is a matter of who is telling the narrative.

 

[Griezmann7711]

Iraqi Christians are not Arabians. I have Iraqi friend who is kurd . Mandaean, Yazidi, Turkman, Kurdish, Arab, Assyrian etc these are all Iraqi.


This is the latest 2020 study on Iraq Arabs with 254 samples.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7499422/

results
J = 54%
E= 14.9
T= 2 %

Never said that, it's interesting that's why I sent you and maybe I sent you bc the prophet Ibrahim as wasn't Arabian either, he was Mesopotamian and these Iraqi christians are from Mesopotamia.


Where does it say in that site that T is 2% among Iraqi Arabs?

J2 is langaab in Arabia.

J2 has somewhat high or high prevalence in some places in Arabia, j2 is more common than j1 in the levant and Europe, and in Iraq j1 and j2 are roughly the same size 20-30%.

Haplogroup T on wiki and it's distributions, it's highly prevalent in many groups in Asia and Europe. Notice how so many jews carry it, levites the tribe of Musa and Haruun AS in Europe carry it at 22.6% in one study.

R is even younger but dominates Europe, India, Persia and is larger than T in the Middle East.

Depends on what place in Middle East, maybe overall tho. R was maybe more successful in having more kids than T.

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

I am 3adde mirifle Maxamad Reewing not luwaay, initially I wrote luwaay on ftdna, it's the tribe my clan was put in and currently count as. tribe wise but not based on abtiris if that makes sense.

Tribe wise we're luwaay and abtiris wise my clan is barbar 3adde mirifle and our home land is in Walanwyne "Defeat" grandparents and parents are from Xudur.

DIGIL&MIRIFLE

Digil&Mirifle descendants & ancestors were divided into 8/9

Some are descendants of mirifle/begedi/3alemo/jambalul sons of Raxwayne.

Some are from the brothers/descendants of luwaay/laysan/gasargud/gelidle/geledi/jilible/hadame sons of Omar Diin son of khutub son of Omar abaadir.

Some are from the descendants of Digil the great great grandfather of Raxwayne they're maatey/3ali"jiiddo" /Omar"Garre" /3iise"Tuni"/3usman/Digiin

Basically, the descendants and clans of Omar Diin, Raxwayne and Digil are what comprises of the DIGIL&MIRIFLE umbrella.

For example geledi belongs to DIGIL a maternal 5th great great grandfather yet his abtiris doesn't go through DiGIL but counted as Digil tribe wise, so the geledi kingdom was gabroon a descendant of geledi not DiGiL.

We are all related ether through paternally or maternally and inter-marry with each other and of course other Somali clans. I have cousins who are abgaal/Ogaden and my mother being xawadle and step brothers who are maternally mursade/shanshi.

So you're from a barbaare group that are part of luwaay by alliance? Either way you're a descendant of digil right

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

You're

You're preaching to the choir.

I already stated that I didn't not know for sure about the relation to abu bakr Al sadiiq and Omar diin abtiris is said to go through zubair ibn awwam or through Omar abaadir.

Personally I have no knowledge. Only know about my own the rest are a side note.

HOGOL LING HILOWSINAAYI by Isaak Eething Hassing "Isak Doolow" that's where I got my info about the abtiris and family members. He is a joroon from madowe mirifle.

Whether they were wrong or right is the reason that drove me to YDNA test.

If what you posted in true or not is a matter of who is telling the narrative.

Yh I've read about Omar diin being from abdullah bin zubair bin Al awwam, what I wrote was a translation from sheekh Eethin Sheekh sa'iids book.i linked his video on YouTube that explains it in depth.

Did Isaak doolow do any tests wether 23andme or yfull?

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Who are the Murusade aligned with in lower shabelle? @Banadiri Warrior

They're all independent right now, I doubt they're part of geledi confederacy anymore just like wacdaan

 

[Tito_0]

I'm not sure whether he did a test or not if he did, it should come out to be T based on his abtiris he is madow mirifle and I'm 3adde mirifle. He knows my father if I ever see him I would ask and try to encourage him to take the test if he hasn't.

Yes barbar 3adde mirifle maxamad reewing and are in the luwaay tribe as far as tribe is concerned but 100% mirifle.

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

I'm not sure whether he did a test or not if he didn't it should come out to be T based on his abtiris he is madow mirifle and I'm 3adde mirifle. He knows my father if I ever ran to him I will ask and try to encourage him to take the test if he hasn't.

Yes barbar 3adde mirifle maxamad reewing and are in the luwaay tribe as far as tribe is concerned but 100% mirifle.

Not all barbaare are part of luwaay tho, there's barbaare in wanlaweyn that are seperate. Also if you did 23andme what were the haplogroup of your rahanweyn matches on there what rahanweyn clans were they from if you know?

 

[Tito_0]

Not all barbaare are part of luwaay tho, there's barbaare in wanlaweyn that are seperate. Also if you did 23andme what were the haplogroup of your rahanweyn matches on there what rahanweyn clans were they from if you know?

BARO: ABTIRSIIMADA IYO TAARIIKHDA QOWMIYADA DIGIL IYO MIRIFLE

WAAJIDPRESS – 10 DEC 2012: Waxa ay Soomaalidu inta badan is weyddiisaa ayna isu sheegaan in DigilMirifle aan aheyn qowmiyad jirta oo iskeed u taagan, qaarkoodna waxa ayba aaminsan yihiin in q…

waajid.wordpress.com

I know of two hadaame and one gasaargude whom have T-L208 but haven't done any deep testing to see how close we could be on Yfull tree or ftdna

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

BARO: ABTIRSIIMADA IYO TAARIIKHDA QOWMIYADA DIGIL IYO MIRIFLE

WAAJIDPRESS – 10 DEC 2012: Waxa ay Soomaalidu inta badan is weyddiisaa ayna isu sheegaan in DigilMirifle aan aheyn qowmiyad jirta oo iskeed u taagan, qaarkoodna waxa ayba aaminsan yihiin in q…

waajid.wordpress.com

I know of two hadaame and one gasaargude whom have T-L208 but haven't done any deep testing to see how close we could be on Yfull tree or ftdna

Do you know if the hadames that you matched with are true hadame by lineage or from groups that joined?

That link you posted has many mistakes the biggest one being that it confuses Omar diin the father of Dab and qarsin with another Omar diin who's children were 8;
1-Aw Yaxye Sh Cumardin
2-Aw Calinasri Aw Cumardin
3-Aw Cabdullahi Aw Cumardin
4-Aw cabdiraxman Aw Cumardin
5-Aw Ismaciil Aw Cumardin
6-Jamaal Aw Cumardin
7-Isxaaq Aw Cumardin
8-Ibraahim Aw Cumardin

 

[Tito_0]

I know of two hadaame and one gasaargude whom have T-L208 but haven't done any deep testing to see how close we could be on Yfull tree or ftdna

Do you know if the hadames that you matched with are true hadame by lineage or from groups that joined?

That link you posted has many mistakes the biggest one being that it confuses Omar diin the father of Dab and qarsin with another Omar diin who's children were 8;
1-Aw Yaxye Sh Cumardin
2-Aw Calinasri Aw Cumardin
3-Aw Cabdullahi Aw Cumardin
4-Aw cabdiraxman Aw Cumardin
5-Aw Ismaciil Aw Cumardin
6-Jamaal Aw Cumardin
7-Isxaaq Aw Cumardin
8-Ibraahim Aw Cumardin

What clan and tribe do you belong to? Have you done yDNA test?

 

[Step a side]

Never said that, it's interesting that's why I sent you and maybe I sent you bc the prophet Ibrahim as wasn't Arabian either, he was Mesopotamian and these Iraqi christians are from Mesopotamia.


Where does it say in that site that T is 2% among Iraqi Arabs?

J2 has somewhat high or high prevalence in some places in Arabia, j2 is more common than j1 in the levant and Europe, and in Iraq j1 and j2 are roughly the same size 20-30%.

Haplogroup T on wiki and it's distributions, it's highly prevalent in many groups in Asia and Europe. Notice how so many jews carry it, levites the tribe of Musa and Haruun AS in Europe carry it at 22.6% in one study.

View attachment 275385
View attachment 275384


Depends on what place in Middle East, maybe overall tho. R was maybe more successful in having more kids than T.

J2 is dwarfed by J1 in Arabia and the Semitic speaking groups. J2 is more northern Middle East while J1 is southern Middle East. T is undoubtedly Middle Eastern but it wasn’t as successful as J or E

the top is j1 while the bottom is j2. This is something I new back in 2009!

There is more E and R among the Jews than T.

Here is a wiki table with all the studies referenced that looks at the general population rather than specific individuals.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_populations_of_the_Near_East

 

[Tito_0]

Never said that, it's interesting that's why I sent you and maybe I sent you bc the prophet Ibrahim as wasn't Arabian either, he was Mesopotamian and these Iraqi christians are from Mesopotamia.


Where does it say in that site that T is 2% among Iraqi Arabs?

J2 has somewhat high or high prevalence in some places in Arabia, j2 is more common than j1 in the levant and Europe, and in Iraq j1 and j2 are roughly the same size 20-30%.

Haplogroup T on wiki and it's distributions, it's highly prevalent in many groups in Asia and Europe. Notice how so many jews carry it, levites the tribe of Musa and Haruun AS in Europe carry it at 22.6% in one study.

View attachment 275385
View attachment 275384


Depends on what place in Middle East, maybe overall tho. R was maybe more successful in having more kids than T.

Based on a study that will be released in the future by Harvard. It hasn't been released yet I'm eagerly waiting.

Ancient sample from the Bronze Age in Khaybar (saudi arabia) >> Y haplogroup T

Ancient sample from Yemen from the Iron Age has >>Y haplogroup J1

And two ancient samples from Socotra Island in Yemen >> Y haplogroup J1 and J2.

Vast 4,500-year-old highway network of 'funerary avenues' stretching for thousands of miles and lined with Bronze Age tombs is uncovered in Saudi Arabia



if J1 is arab and is true then that's cool cause Ibrahim was not an Arab nor was ishamciil the father of Arabs cause his mother was Egyptian so was his wife an Egyptian, nither was his father an Arab. Israel aka ya3qub forfather was said to be a wondering aramean.

ibrahim never visited let alone lived in southern mesopotamia. He's from northern mesopotamia north of Haran a place called sanliurfa aka Ur-kasdim not UR south of mesopotamia.

You could find cities named after Ibrahim grand father in southern turkey such as sureg, nahor and lots father being named haran but not in Iraq.

Farther more when Issac and his son ya3qub were to be married both of them got wives in padam-aram which is around southern turkey and northern Syria where it was said is the land of there ancestors and marry from their own household.

https://www.thetorah.com/article/ur-kasdim-where-is-abrahams-birthplace

The idea of southern mesopotamia of ur being the city where ibrahim born was by This identification was first proposed by Henry C. Rawlinson (1810–1895), but Sir Leonard Woolley (1880‒1960) was the one who established it as standard doctrine.

the Chaldeans were resident in southern Mesopotamia during the 1st millennium B.C.E., the terms Babylonia and Chaldea become virtually interchangeable during the 7th and 6th centuries B.C.E., including during the reign of Nebuchadnezzar II.

One scholar who noted these problems, and disagreed with Woolley’s identification, was Cyrus Gordon (1908–2001). Gordon dug with Woolley at Ur in the 1930s, he could not accept the archaeologist’s conclusion. Instead, he noted that if Teraḥ and family left Ur-Kasdim to travel to Canaan, but stopped en route in Ḥarran, then the location of Ur-Kasdim should be to the north of Ḥarran.

 

[Step a side]

Based on a study that will be released in the future by Harvard. It hasn't been released yet I'm eagerly waiting.

Ancient sample from the Bronze Age in Khaybar (saudi arabia) >> Y haplogroup T

Ancient sample from Yemen from the Iron Age has >>Y haplogroup J1

And two ancient samples from Socotra Island in Yemen >> Y haplogroup J1 and J2.

Vast 4,500-year-old highway network of 'funerary avenues' stretching for thousands of miles and lined with Bronze Age tombs is uncovered in Saudi Arabia



if J1 is arab and is true then that's cool cause Ibrahim was not an Arab nor was ishamciil the father of Arabs cause his mother was Egyptian so was his wife an Egyptian, nither was his father an Arab. Israel aka ya3qub forfather was said to be a wondering aramean.

ibrahim never visited let alone lived in southern mesopotamia. He's from northern mesopotamia north of Haran a place called sanliurfa aka Ur-kasdim not UR south of mesopotamia.

You could find cities named after Ibrahim grand father in southern turkey such as sureg, nahor and lots father being named haran but not in Iraq.

Farther more when Issac and his son ya3qub were to be married both of them got wives in padam-aram which is around southern turkey and northern Syria where it was said is the land of there ancestors and marry from their own household.

https://www.thetorah.com/article/ur-kasdim-where-is-abrahams-birthplace

The idea of southern mesopotamia of ur being the city where ibrahim born was by This identification was first proposed by Henry C. Rawlinson (1810–1895), but Sir Leonard Woolley (1880‒1960) was the one who established it as standard doctrine.

the Chaldeans were resident in southern Mesopotamia during the 1st millennium B.C.E., the terms Babylonia and Chaldea become virtually interchangeable during the 7th and 6th centuries B.C.E., including during the reign of Nebuchadnezzar II.

One scholar who noted these problems, and disagreed with Woolley’s identification, was Cyrus Gordon (1908–2001). Gordon dug with Woolley at Ur in the 1930s, he could not accept the archaeologist’s conclusion. Instead, he noted that if Teraḥ and family left Ur-Kasdim to travel to Canaan, but stopped en route in Ḥarran, then the location of Ur-Kasdim should be to the north of Ḥarran.

Ibrahim was a Semite who are predominantly J1p58. Also everyone in Arabia know who is who. All the tribes that claim descend from Ismael are overwhelmingly FGC11. Even Cohan Jews are within P58.

 

[Tito_0]

Ibrahim was a Semite who are predominantly J1p58. Also everyone in Arabia know who is who. All the tribes that claim descend from Ismael are overwhelmingly FGC11. Even Cohan Jews are within P58.

First of all no Jew specially European Jew can truly trace his leanage back to harun nor Musa... There's absolutely no real documentation of modern day "Jews" who can prove that their abtiris goes back to levi. Although the priestly Kohanim came from haron be cause Allah command them and have them that specific responsibility but no living person specially a Jew can trace it.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/R1a-clade-frequencies-within-Jewish-castes_tbl2_259352391

majority of the Jews today are Ashkenazi German jews their yDNA is R1a and they claim that only your mother can make one Jew so if ones mother is Jew he will be Jew by that alone their whole book disagrees with them speaking of the Torah the leanage in the Torah is all about the male not female. As we know 8n our culture no one uses their mothers abtiris. They may be Jews but definitely not Israelite and they know it the only think going for them is the narrative not facts

The genetic variation in the R1a clade among the Ashkenazi Levites’ Y chromosome - PMC

Approximately 300,000 men around the globe self-identify as Ashkenazi Levites, of whom two thirds were previously shown to descend from a single male. The paucity of whole Y-chromosome sequences precluded conclusive identification of this ancestor’s ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

No one can truly say what haplogroup Ibrahim or his descendants belong to without test the main man himself.

Quite frankly It's all a moot.

The oldest Fgc11 is Yemeni TMRCA 3,900 not Iraqi/Jordanian/Ashkenazi nor Levites/Syrian or Turkish/Palestine.

And the oldest fgc11 found in the levant is Sidon (Canaanite) J-FGC11 > Y3014 > FGC46728* (1950-1690 calBCE)
ERS1790733 (Haber et al. 2017)


What do you mean by semitic? Language, culture, ethnicity. The term Semitic in a racial sense was coined by members of the Göttingen School of History in the early 1770s. No one knows what haplogroup shem was so how can semetic be J1a when it could include E, R, H etc because of the shared culture and language in the region they live together. Shems brother was ham and Japheth and uncle of Cannon they should all belong to the same haplogroup. the term also came to be applied to the religions and ethnicities of various cultures associated by geographic and linguistic distribution.

So who is specifically semitic? And their specific haplogroup/type?

 

[Step a side]

First of all no Jew specially European Jew can truly trace his leanage back to harun nor Musa... There's absolutely no real documentation of modern day "Jews" who can prove that their abtiris goes back to levi. Although the priestly Kohanim came from haron be cause Allah command them and have them that specific responsibility but no living person specially a Jew can trace it.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/R1a-clade-frequencies-within-Jewish-castes_tbl2_259352391

majority of the Jews today are Ashkenazi German jews their yDNA is R1a and they claim that only your mother can make one Jew so if ones mother is Jew he will be Jew by that alone their whole book disagrees with them speaking of the Torah the leanage in the Torah 8s all about the male not female.

The genetic variation in the R1a clade among the Ashkenazi Levites’ Y chromosome - PMC

Approximately 300,000 men around the globe self-identify as Ashkenazi Levites, of whom two thirds were previously shown to descend from a single male. The paucity of whole Y-chromosome sequences precluded conclusive identification of this ancestor’s ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

No one can truly say what haplogroup Ibrahim or his descendants belong to without test the main man himself.

Quite frankly It's all a moot.

The oldest Fgc11 is Yemeni TMRCA 3,900 not Iraqi/Jordanian/Ashkenazi nor Levites/Syrian or Turkish/Palestine.

And the oldest fgc11 found in the levant is Sidon (Canaanite) J-FGC11 > Y3014 > FGC46728* (1950-1690 calBCE)
ERS1790733 (Haber et al. 2017)

L858 is the most dominant Arabian lineage easily hitting the 70%. FGC11 is the dominant lineage among the Arabians that specifically claim Adnan. Verified Quraish members including sheriffs have come back positive for specific mutations within FGC12. You can’t tell children of Ismaeel about their linegae the same way no one can tell you about your lineage. That’s absurd.

FGC11 has origin in Yemen just like many of the old Semitic groups. Arabia is still the least searched area when it come to ancient samples but it would come as no surprise if most lineages within p58 have Yemeni roots considering how this nation has the most basal lineages. Abraham was most definitely part of the Semitic groups that expanded from Arabia and reached southern Mesopotamia.

 

[Tito_0]

Its true that fgc11 is Arab dominate I cannot negate that fact nor I'm I trying to but what proof is there that Ibrahim or isma3ill was? Or ali ibn abi talib was fgc10500 when it's 1350ybp what proof is there? How are the quraish ybp 1350 it just doesn't add up.

J-L859 Quraish YBP should at least go back TO 271BCE not 673CE

High frequency is not fact nor proof.

I 100% agree with you that Arabs are J1a there's no doubt in my mind and all the evidence that points to it but not Ibrahim, isma3iil or Ya3qub without having their samples tested.

 

[Step a side]

Its true that fgc11 is Arab dominate I cannot negate that fact nor I'm I trying to but what proof is there that Ibrahim or isma3ill was? Or ali ibn abi talib was fgc10500 when it's 1350ybp what proof is there? How are the quraish ybp 1350 it just doesn't add up.

J-L859 Quraish YBP should at least go back TO 271BCE not 673CE

High frequency is not fact nor proof.

I 100% agree with you that Arabs are J1a there's no doubt in my mind and all the evidence that points to it but not Ibrahim, isma3iil or Ya3qub without having their samples tested.

The children and family of Cali are known by the Arabs from Hejaz the same way we know the childeren of abgaal and Gadbuursi.

The Quraish lineage L859 is 3000+ years old.

Both Adnan and the Cohen Jews are within P58.

 

[Tito_0]

The children and family of Cali are known by the Arabs from Hejaz the same way we know the childeren of abgaal and Gadbuursi.

The Quraish lineage L859 is 3000+ years old.

Both Adnan and the Cohen Jews are within P58.

You're appealing to authority at this point through composition/division and slippery slope

The Cohen thing doesn't proof anything. Do you even know when was the last time an actual Cohen existed? There were no high priests following the destruction of the Second Temple.

The quraish lineage isn't that old 3000ybp is around the time of sulaiman. Quraish didn't exist then. At best quraish aka fihr was alive around 300ce as he was ali's 9th great great grandfather and I'm using 30by9 minus ali was born 599ce that's about 328ce-300ce.

Which quraish lineage goes back to 3000ypb?

 

[Griezmann7711]

J2 is dwarfed by J1 in Arabia and the Semitic speaking groups. J2 is more northern Middle East while J1 is southern Middle East. T is undoubtedly Middle Eastern but it wasn’t as successful as J or E

View attachment 275542

View attachment 275544

the top is j1 while the bottom is j2. This is something I new back in 2009!

There is more E and R among the Jews than T.

Here is a wiki table with all the studies referenced that looks at the general population rather than specific individuals.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_populations_of_the_Near_East

What did you knew back in 2009? Yeah J2 is more common in north while J1 is more common in the south I know, I said J2 is more common in levant and Europe and J1 and J2 has roughly the same frequency in Iraq. As for the "specific individuals" as you said, no it looks at specific ethnic groups actually.

 

[Step a side]

What did you knew back in 2009? Yeah J2 is more common in north while J1 is more common in the south I know, I said J2 is more common in levant and Europe and J1 and J2 has roughly the same frequency in Iraq. As for the "specific individuals" as you said, no it looks at specific ethnic groups actually.

Iraq is the border zone between the Indo-European world and the Afroasiatic world. The southern half has more J1 while the northern has more J2. Semitic people are known for J1-P58. It’s often called the Semitic marker alongside J-P56 and E-M123