GENETICS Mixed Somali DNA testing

[Al-Ma'mun]

How many times do you say ridiculous things? On average those from the Northwest and Northeast are more Somali than Southerners from what I've seen. Almost all the questionable results I see come from konfuur. And you are questioning the make up of Northerners. Do not throw stones in a glass house. You live closer to Bantus than they do to Nilotes.

Majority of reer waqooyi from Bari/Mudug Puntland/Galmudug, all of SL,Dijbouti and majority Ethio Somalis are primarily Cushitic + minor Arab ( with some having other Horner admixes like Afars,Hararis or Oromos).In the South you tend to see non-Afro-Asiatic ancestry admixture like Indian (Cadcads) or Bantu (Bajuni or the Mushunguli speakers)

 

[Shimbiris]

Majority of reer waqooyi from Bari/Mudug Puntland/Galmudug, all of SL,Dijbouti and majority Ethio Somalis are primarily Cushitic + minor Arab ( with some having other Horner admixes like Afars,Hararis or Oromos).In the South you tend to see non-Afro-Asiatic ancestry admixture like Indian (Cadcads) or Bantu (Bajuni or the Mushunguli speakers)

No. You are both overdoing it with both the north and the south. Almost no one in the north has actual Arab admixture. If they do it's usually very recent, extremely rare and known to them in their family like an ayeeyo or hooyo who is Yemeni-Somali (Somalized Yemenis who settled in some of the coastal towns). The Arabian found in northerners is also found in reer Koonfur in basically the same amounts on average. It's even found all the way down in Kenya in even Rendilles to some extent. It's ancient and seems to have something to do with intra-Horn admixture as modeling Somalis as part Xabash or Oromo makes the Yemeni admixture disappear. And the same goes for reer Koonfur regarding exotic admixture in them. It's extremely rare to find anyone with "Bantu" or even Cadcad admixture. Let's not pretend it's the norm. The vast majority of Geeljires all over the place look pretty much the same.

 

[Mujahid Nur Marehan]

These reer Waqooyi neighbouring communities are heavily mixed with Nilotes.

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

No. You are both overdoing it with both the north and the south. Almost no one in the north has actual Arab admixture. If they do it's usually very recent, extremely rare and known to them in their family like an ayeeyo or hooyo who is Yemeni-Somali (Somalized Yemenis who settled in some of the coastal towns). The Arabian found in northerners is also found in reer Koonfur in basically the same amounts on average. It's even found all the way down in Kenya in even Rendilles to some extent. It's ancient and seems to have something to do with intra-Horn admixture as modeling Somalis as part Xabash or Oromo makes the Yemeni admixture disappear. And the same goes for reer Koonfur regarding exotic admixture in them. It's extremely rare to find anyone with "Bantu" or even Cadcad admixture. Let's not pretend it's the norm. The vast majority of Geeljires all over the place look pretty much the same.

The Arabian found in Somalis can definitely be found in both South and North but I disagree with the premise that the Arabian in Somalis is from Intra-Horn migrations. Somalis are way to heterogenous in Arab ancestry (0-12%) for it be older then the Medieval period.Somalis also lack J-P56 and the highest Arabian scoring Somalis would have heightened Mota ancestry which is not the case at all.

Out of the two Rendille samples only one of them has around 5% Yemeni admixture but that sample seems to be heavily Oromo/Borana admixed (between 45-50%) while the other completely lacks it

 

[The alchemist]

These reer Waqooyi neighbouring communities are heavily mixed with Nilotes. View attachment 216957
View attachment 216958

You went back to 2003 with this one. Looking at pictures of people does not always reflect genetics. Those Afars are, in fact, more Eurasian than you, despite being dark.

 

[Mujahid Nur Marehan]

You went back to 2003 with this one. Looking at pictures of people does not always reflect genetics. Those Afars are, in fact, more Eurasian than you, despite being darker.

Yes they might be more Euro Asians. But I am more Caucascoid than them. Also they have significant recent Nilotic influence.

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

Yes they might be more Euro Asians. But I am more Caucascoid than them. Also they have significant recent Nilotic influence.

Somalis carry more Nilotic-like ancestry then the Afars...you're delusional.If anything, Cisse Somali individuals who are mixed with Afars would be Eurasian and Semitic then you.

 

[The alchemist]

Yes they might be more Euro Asians. But I am more Caucascoid than them. Also they have significant recent Nilotic influence.

Define "Caucasoid". If you mean skull-wise, then I don't think Somalis differ much from Afar (you changed the topic, lol). These morphological phenotype things can derive mostly from selective pressures and the environment.

 

[Shimbiris]

The Arabian found in Somalis can definitely be found in both South and North but I disagree with the premise that the Arabian in Somalis is from Intra-Horn migrations. Somalis are way to heterogenous in Arab ancestry (0-12%) for it be older then the Medieval period.Somalis also lack J-P56 and the highest Arabian scoring Somalis would have heightened Mota ancestry which is not the case at all.

The Arabian in Somalis is weird and probably out of wack in the models we so far have. Also, no one is at 0%, saaxiib. Even the samples you think are at 0% have at least 3% if you run the right models like Somali-15 (the least admixed I've seen by far). Anyway, what I mean by out of wack is that despite how heterogeneous the percentages are, Somali MENA scores are still EXTREMELY tight/homogeneous with a variation as low as 2% once you remove a couple of Kenyan outliers:

Leads one to believe there's something weird going on with the Arabian scores due to things like drift and it's probably more homogeneous and we'll see in time. And I'm sorry but it really doesn't look medieval at all. Outside of some obvious Mehri J-P58 clades Somalis really show no medieval haplogroup links with Arabians. None whatsoever, as far as I know. And it is factual that once you add Xabashis, Canfars, Agaws or Oromos the Arabian completely disappears. And this should really tip you off, Somalis prefer Jawf-Yemenis for their Arabian admixture source over all other Arabian groups the EXACT same way highland Ethiopians do:

It gets even worse when you use the least admixed Somali (Somali-15) as a base for "Somali":

I see no proof that this is medieval, saaxiib.

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

@Shimbiris There is no proof of it being the result of intra-horner admixture as lack of Mota & J-P56 are big holes in this theory.It's seems to be direct source from the Arabian Peninsula.I can see a case for sporadic contact from Sabean/Himyarite times as the ethnic Somali J-P58 diverged from the Yemenis 2500 years agp.Using the other Ethios doesn't make much historical sense either as there is no evidence of any large interactions between Af-Maxaa speaking Somalis and Oromos untill the the 16th century Oromo expansions and those pastoralists waves were heavily Mota admixed.Even neighbouring Hararis carryEthio-Semitic J-P56 but not Somalis...


Somalis with low to no Arabian

Target: Somali:SOMALI15 Distance: 2.9973% / 0.02997289 | ADC: 0.25x RC
98.2	Kenya_Pastoral
1.8	Yemeni_Amran

Target: Gabiley_SL Distance: 1.9331% / 0.01933127 | ADC: 0.25x RC
100.0	Kenya_Pastoral

Target: Gabiley_SL Distance: 1.9331% / 0.01933127 | ADC: 0.25x RC
100.0	Kenya_Pastoral

Target: Somali_Kenya:Ayodo_23S Distance: 2.6055% / 0.02605496 | ADC: 0.25x RC
100.0	Kenya_Pastoral

Target: Rendille:T_Rendille-1.DG Distance: 2.3683% / 0.02368316 | ADC: 0.25x RC
88.8	Kenya_Pastoral
11.2	Dinka

Very SSA shifted (Borana-admixed) Kenyan Somali

Target: Somali_Kenya:Ayodo_69S Distance: 2.1960% / 0.02196042 | ADC: 0.25x RC
89.8	Kenya_Pastoral
10.2	Yemeni_Amran

Other Borana admixed Rendille

Target: Rendille:T_Rendille-2.DG Distance: 1.7994% / 0.01799440 | ADC: 0.25x RC
94.6	Kenya_Pastoral
5.4	Yemeni_Amran

Somalis from Somalia with very high Arabian ancestry and zero Mota ancestry (also more Eurasian then the above samples)

Target: Somali:SOMALI14 Distance: 1.6266% / 0.01626555 | ADC: 0.25x RC
88.6	Kenya_Pastoral
11.4	Yemeni_Amran

---

Target: Somali:SOMALI6 Distance: 2.2462% / 0.02246201 | ADC: 0.25x RC
88.4	Kenya_Pastoral
11.6	Yemeni_Amran

 

[Shimbiris]

@Shimbiris There is no proof of it being the result of intra-horner admixture as lack of Mota & J-P56 are big holes in this theory.

Saaxiib, I'm confused that you can write "There is no proof of it being the result of intra-horn admixture" after reading what I shared above. What more proof do you need than the above examples? And I don't know what you mean by lack of Mota. Somalis have Mota ancestry, saaxiib. At minimum 5%. And the Y-DNA issue can easily be dismissed by Somalis being dominated by T-L208 and E-Z813 founder effects as a majority nomadic group that's generally prone to such founder effects.

And I'm sorry but I find it hard to believe Southern Arabians had any real genetic effect except for maybe T-L208 a long time ago. In the Middle-Ages and Early Modern era, based on numerous accounts, it is very clear Somalis were highly suspicious of ajanabis. Ajanabis would rarely, almost never, be allowed to venture into the interior and had to always have a native Abban (a guide/sponsor) even when in the coastal towns. I'm willing to bet good money this was the case during the classical era as well. So not only would it be unlikely for some ancient Yemenis to settle on our lands and have any noticeable genetic impact but try to think about the magnitude of what you're suggesting. Some southern Arabian traders were numerous enough to effect basically ALL Somalis, including the majority reer miyi? I dunno. But some ancient migrations within the Horn by fellow East Cushites or something I can actually picture.

You also need to explain to me why Somalis' Arabian admixture looks identical to what's in Xabeshas. Put in Saudis, BedouinBs, Qataris, Yemenis of all sorts and for whatever reason we always favor al-Jawf folks the same way Tigrays and Amharas and Oromos do.

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

Saaxiib, I'm confused that you can write "There is no proof of it being the result of intra-horn admixture" after reading what I shared above. What more proof do you need than the above examples? And I don't know what you mean by lack of Mota. Somalis have Mota ancestry, saaxiib. At minimum 5%. And the Y-DNA issue can easily be dismissed by Somalis being dominated by T-L208 and E-Z813 founder effects as a majority nomadic group that's generally prone to such founder effects.

And I'm sorry but I find it hard to believe Southern Arabians had any real genetic effect except for maybe T-L208 a long time ago. In the Middle-Ages and Early Modern era, based on numerous accounts, it is very clear Somalis were highly suspicious of ajanabis. Ajanabis would rarely, almost never, be allowed to venture into the interior and had to always have a native Abban (a guide/sponsor) even when in the coastal towns. I'm willing to bet good money this was the case during the classical era as well. So not only would it be unlikely for some ancient Yemenis to settle on our lands and have any noticeable genetic impact but try to think about the magnitude of what you're suggesting. Some southern Arabian traders were numerous enough to effect basically ALL Somalis, including the majority reer miyi? I dunno. But some ancient migrations within the Horn by fellow East Cushites or something I can actually picture.

There are definitely holes in my theory but there are a lot in yours as well.Ethio-Semitic ancestry is only 3k year old in the Horn.The only conduit Somalis could have gained Ethio-Semitic ancestry would be from the high Mota Oromos or the Afars (who carry substantial Ethio-Semitic ancestry alongside J-P56).Somalis are also to heterogenous in terms of Semitic ancestry for your intra-horn theory to work as such admixture would have stabilized a long time ago or their would be a geographical cline

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

Saaxiib, I'm confused that you can write "There is no proof of it being the result of intra-horn admixture" after reading what I shared above. What more proof do you need than the above examples? And I don't know what you mean by lack of Mota. Somalis have Mota ancestry, saaxiib. At minimum 5%. And the Y-DNA issue can easily be dismissed by Somalis being dominated by T-L208 and E-Z813 founder effects as a majority nomadic group that's generally prone to such founder effects.

And I'm sorry but I find it hard to believe Southern Arabians had any real genetic effect except for maybe T-L208 a long time ago. In the Middle-Ages and Early Modern era, based on numerous accounts, it is very clear Somalis were highly suspicious of ajanabis. Ajanabis would rarely, almost never, be allowed to venture into the interior and had to always have a native Abban (a guide/sponsor) even when in the coastal towns. I'm willing to bet good money this was the case during the classical era as well. So not only would it be unlikely for some ancient Yemenis to settle on our lands and have any noticeable genetic impact but try to think about the magnitude of what you're suggesting. Some southern Arabian traders were numerous enough to effect basically ALL Somalis, including the majority reer miyi? I dunno. But some ancient migrations within the Horn by fellow East Cushites or something I can actually picture.

You also need to explain to me why Somalis' Arabian admixture looks identical to what's in Xabeshas. Put in Saudis, BedouinBs, Qataris, Yemenis of all sorts and for whatever reason we always favor al-Jawf folks the same way Tigrays and Amharas and Oromos do.

Al Jawf carries Horner ancestry...I prefer to use Mahra (lack Horner ancestry) or the Amran (heavily ANF for an Arabian population).

 

[Shimbiris]

There are definitely holes in my theory but there are a lot in yours as well.Ethio-Semitic ancestry is only 3k year old in the Horn.The only conduit Somalis could have gained Ethio-Semitic ancestry would be from the high Mota Oromos or the Afars (who carry substantial Ethio-Semitic ancestry alongside J-P56).Somalis are also to heterogenous in terms of Semitic ancestry for your intra-horn theory to work as such admixture would have stabilized a long time ago or their would be a geographical cline

This is not necessarily true. Eastern Oromos in areas like Bale, Arsi and Hararghe who are by far the closest people to us genetically are not that high in Mota ancestry, last I checked. And those guys were largely predated by what looked to have been Sidamics and Somalis in those areas based on inspecting the Futux al-Xabasha. I imagine them to have been a conduit for this. And like I said, it is very, very strange how Somali MENA scores are EXTREMELY homogeneous once you ignore the few Boran admixed Kenyans:

That's a clearly very stabilized population. And I've seen this homogeneity remain across Somaliweyn. Galbeed to Koonfur, Jabuuti to Bari. Does it make any sense to you that one person is 3% Yemeni and another is 10% yet they all coincidentally cluster so tightly on PCAs and are pretty much equally MENA? There's something funky amok with the Yemeni scores probably to do with drift which is why sometimes folks who show 0% can suddenly show 4% or more if you run the right models.

Al Jawf carries Horner ancestry...I prefer to use Mahra (lack Horner ancestry) or the Amran (heavily ANF for an Arabian population).

All Yemenis carry some Horner admixture. Possibly anyway.

 

[Cali1996]

This is not necessarily true. Eastern Oromos in areas like Bale, Arsi and Hararghe who are by far the closest people to us genetically are not that high in Mota ancestry, last I checked. And those guys were largely predated by what looked to have been Sidamics and Somalis in those areas based on inspecting the Futux al-Xabasha. I imagine them to have been a conduit for this. And like I said, it is very, very strange how Somali MENA scores are EXTREMELY homogeneous once you ignore the few Boran admixed Kenyans:

That's a clearly very stabilized population. And I've seen this homogeneity remain across Somaliweyn. Galbeed to Koonfur, Jabuuti to Bari. Does it make any sense to you that one person is 3% Yemeni and another is 10% yet they all coincidentally cluster so tightly on PCAs and are pretty much equally MENA? There's something funky amok with the Yemeni scores probably to do with drift which is why sometimes folks who show 0% can suddenly show 4% or more if you run the right models.


All Yemenis carry some Horner admixture. Possibly anyway.

Yemenis carry up to 40% Horner admixture. When Arab gulf try to impersonate Yemenis in their shows they wear Afros just like this fella

 

[Shimbiris]

Yemenis carry up to 40% Horner admixture. When Arab gulf try to impersonate Yemenis in their shows they wear Afros just like this fella

Nah, most Yemeni Arabs, even in the south, are not that admixed. Horner + Bantu/Omotic/Nilotic probably doesn't add up to more than 10-20% in most southerners and the northerners don't look much different from Saudis in the neighboring Asir region. There are a fair number of really admixed outliers in the south, though.

 

[Cali1996]

Nah, most Yemeni Arabs, even in the south, are not that admixed. Horner + Bantu/Omotic/Nilotic probably doesn't add up to more than 10-20% in most southerners and the northerners don't look much different from Saudis in the neighboring Asir region. There are a fair number of really admixed outliers in the south, though.

It's mostly reer Xadmramut and Aden who look like this. Probably that's why they are smarter the northerners. The Northerners actually tell southern Yemenis go back to Somalia all the time.

 

[Shimbiris]

It's mostly reer Xadmramut and Aden who look like this. Probably that's why they are smarter the northerners. The Northerners actually tell southern Yemenis go back to Somalia all the time.

You're reminding me of a historical quote I came across. Some Somali oday was talking about Yemen and he remarked that southern Yemen felt like an extension of Somalia to him culturally and that he always felt at home but felt completely out of place in Northern Yemen. I get told similar things by relatives who've been to Yemen. That northerners are even racist toward Somalis sometimes whereas you'll feel welcomed in the south.

 

[Idilinaa]

You're reminding me of a historical quote I came across. Some Somali oday was talking about Yemen and he remarked that southern Yemen felt like an extension of Somalia to him culturally and that he always felt at home but felt completely out of place in Northern Yemen. I get told similar things by relatives who've been to Yemen. That northerners are even racist toward Somalis sometimes whereas you'll feel welcomed in the south.

There is a clear division between Northern Yemen and Southern Yemen. Northerners even look down on Southerners and are more culturally, politically aligned with Saudis.

The Northerners are a lot more lighterskinned than Southerners on average. But Southern Yemenis are not necessarily darker because of horner or bantu admixture , it is probably because of their position closer to the equator. Notice how further south you go the darker they become.


See this Soqotri Mehri girl , they look very Arabian except they are far more pigmented.

Mehris are fully Eurasian?

Excerpt from an Abstract: " Consistent with other studies, we found that North African and Near Eastern populations (including the Yemeni...

anthromadness.blogspot.com

Yet, so far we've only gotten uniparental data on Soqotris which didn't imply that were very African influenced [3] and now we might just have some Mehri autosomal DNA on our hands which is also not proving consistent with African admixture.

 

[Cali1996]

There is a clear division between Northern Yemen and Southern Yemen. Northerners even look down on Southerners and are more culturally, politically aligned with Saudis.

The Northerners are a lot more lighterskinned than Southerners as well. But Southern Yemenis are not necessarily darker because of horner or bantu admixture , it is probably because of their position closer to the equator. Notice how further south you go the darker they become.


See this Soqotri Mehri girl , they look very Arabian except they are far more pigmented.

Mehris are fully Eurasian?

Excerpt from an Abstract: " Consistent with other studies, we found that North African and Near Eastern populations (including the Yemeni...

anthromadness.blogspot.com

Well the Northerners can sit down. Saudi Arabia's economy is dominated by Southern Yemenis just look up Mohammed bin Laden.