It has a history section and talks about their first contacts with Africans who were Somalis and how East Africa was like. Pretty interesting.
Mogadishu and Zeila were always Somali cities
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It has a history section and talks about their first contacts with Africans who were Somalis and how East Africa was like. Pretty interesting.
Walahi you're the biggest pesudo historian I've ever seen let me guess Xamar is also a Somali name and it comes from xa originally ha yes and Mar which means crossing referring to people who Cross the road
I've already given you the link so these informations are not from me but other respected historians. Hamar is a Somali word meaning "tamarind" and there are plenty of villages called Hamar across the Somali peninsula. You can believe it came from Arabs all you want since you love claiming an Arab origin and love being an Arab wannabe. Like I said it doesn't concern me so get lost.
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The idea that Muqdisho means “seat of Shah” has gained popularity. That said , there is little evidence for it and shouldn’t be given more credit than local oral theories because of the foreign factor. I doubt a Persian Shah ruled over Xamar. Factz” theories are no more or no less credible than other theories on the name origin of Muqdisho. It was recently that some academic scholars were theorising Somalia was once the homeland of Oromos. These theories have been debunked.
Hold on the second there, these are not my "theories" but from other respected historians and they seem to be more credible because 1. Most scholars agree Mogadishu was always dominated by Somalis and foreigners always remained a minority and powerless. 2. Mogadishu is extremely beautiful so the local Somalis named it after its extraordinary beauty.
Mogadishu derived from a morphology of the Somali words "Muuq" and "Disho" which literally means "Sight Killer" or "Blinder" basically referring to the city's blinding beauty.
Here is the link published on book historical site: http://phonebookoftheworld.com/mogadishu/
The Persian etymology theory has been debunked because it's not called Maqad Shah and you've already answered your question, Persians never ruled Mogadishu.
According to Imam Qadi who was a medieval scholar and traveller who visited Mogadishu and the Benadir coast confirmed they were neither Arab or Persian enclaves but largely African towns that were dominated and ruled by the native dark skin Africans that spoke their own native African tongue.
So if the medieval scholars confirm that Somalis were always the majority and rulers of Mogadishu then the Somali etymology for Mogadishu makes the most sense, period.
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I wasn't talking about muqdhiso rather Xamar which obviously comes from Arabic
In your first post you wrote neither Xamar nor Muqdisho are Somali words.
"Sirasi" = Shirazi, from Shiraz, the capital of Fars Province, in Persia.
Shingani and Hamar were Persian/Arab enclaves until the Hiraab kill the Muzzaffar governor about 1624.
Posted in Hawiye History before the Somali Republic, Hawiye legends and folklore, Mogadishu, Rest of the Hawiye Clans
https://operationoverload.wordpress.com/category/mogadishu/page/2/
“In ancient times the Sirasi lived in Mogadiscio. The people called Halawani succeeded the Sirasi. The Mudaffar succeeded the Halawani. The Mudaffar came from the country of Yemen in Arabia. He had guns. He built the palace that is found under the Governor’s house. He was a friend of the Aguran. At that time the Mudaffar governed the coast; and the Aguran ruled in the woodland. The Hirabe were not nearby them; they lived in the northern places. At that time the people of the woodland could not spend the night in the city of Mogadiscio. At sunset a ban was put on the city: ‘Hawiyya, it is growing dark! Hawiyya, it is growing dark!’ Then they went away toward the woodland.
“Later the Mudaffar had an interpreter who was called ‘Ismankäy Haggi ‘Ali. This ‘Ismankäy had the idea of letting the Darandollä enter the city. A message was sent to the imam Mahmud ‘Umar, who lived at Golol. The imam, guiding his Page: 71 warriors, came south and approached Mogadiscio. Then what did ‘Ismankäy do? He spoke with the Mudaffar: ‘By now the Darandollä are near Mogadiscio, let me be accompanied by some soldiers, and I shall go to them.’ ‘How do you want to do it?’ ‘I shall do it this way. I shall come to an agreement with the leaders and make them return to the places in the north.’ ‘So be it!’ said the Mudaffar. Then ‘Ismänkäy took some soldiers with him, but without weapons: ‘Leave your weapons! We go out to conclude an agreement, not really for war.’ They put down the weaons. They went into the woodland. When they had gone into the woodland, the Darandollä came out and took all the soldiers prisoner. Then they continued the raid and entered Mogadiscio. The Mudaffar was caputred and they wanted to kill him. But he, looking at the people who had come close to him, saw among them ‘Ismankäy Haggi Ali. ‘Stop!’ he said then. ‘Before you kill me, I want to speak. O ‘Ismankäy, you are good for nothing, you are capable of nothing, you will not pass seven!’ he said. Thus was 248 ‘Ismankäy cursed. When the Mudaffar was killed, when seven days passed after his death, ‘Ismankäy died too. It happened exactly as he had been cursed. !–[if !supportFootnotes]–>[5]<!–[endif]–>
The Darandoolle have conquered Mogadishu city and killed the Muzzaffar governor sometime between 1590 and 1625. The approximate dates appear to be corroborated by a Portuguese document dated 1624<!–[if !supportFootnotes]–>[6]<!–[endif]–>.
After the Darandoolle Mudulood took control of the Mogadishu city in 1624, they quarrelled with the Ajuraan on the interior."
Your previous lies and blogs has been debunked on the other thread. Don't bother derailing this thread you historical revisionist liar and get lost. Just on the other thread you said Mogadishu was Yemani and now you're saying they're Persian? You always conflate and twist your lies just to fill your agenda when I publish new sources.
According to Imam Qadi who was a medieval scholar and traveller who visited Mogadishu and the Benadir coast confirmed they were neither Arab or Persian enclaves but largely African towns that were dominated and ruled by the native dark skin Africans that spoke their own native African tongue. His travels alone debunk your lies.
As for the Mudaffar dynasty. It was a sub-dynasty of the Garen dynasty. They were Ajuran rulers that only ruled the Mogadishu province. They belong to an Ajuran sub-clan called Moorshe who dominated Mogadishu but they were driven out by Abgaal. However, the Cadcads weren't kicked out but joined the Hiraab Imamate. Your blogs are just pure bullshit.
The Mudaffar dynasty was an Ajuran stock.
Here is a source saying Mogadishu was a province of Ajuran.
Now take your bullshit made up blog and get the hell outta here!
Yeah?
Authentic quotes? Explain, or better yet, correct this:
https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...yone-have-more-information-on-it.45990/page-2
This was about Mogadishu and I debunked you. You posted a fake blog while I quoted a medieval scholar called Qadi that actually travelled to Mogadishu in the medieval times and confirmed it was neither Arab or Persian enclave but largely a Somali town simultaneously debunking your blog.
I also showed you a source from the most respected Somali historian called Abdullahi Abdurahman who proves that Mogadishu was a province of Ajuran Empire and that the Mudaffar dynasty was an Ajuran stock.
The sources I posted were authentic and clear. This discussion is over. Please exit from my thread, we don't need anymore of your bullshit revisionism here.
Qadi was not a name. It was an office. And nothing described resembles Somali heer or Dhaqan. The court titles are all Arab.
https://pieterderideaux.jimdo.com/6-contents-1301-1400/ibn-battuta-mogadishu/
Abdullahi Abdurahman accepts Dr Hersi and The Arab Factor, Scott Reese and The Shirazi Settlement of East Africa, Alpers and Luling, all of whom you reject utterly. And of course you reject Cerulli and Casanelli and all the Hawiyye oral traditions.
Why should anyone bother with your personal opinions?
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Firstly, Abdullahi Abdurahman debunks Dr Hersi multiple times in his books.
Secondly, I never rejected Alpers and Luling or any Arab/Persian settements and contribution to Benadir history but all I'm saying is the Benadir coast including Mogadishu was ruled and dominated by Somalis and that's a fact. I even showed you multiple sources on that and you still rejected them all just because it debunks your lying theories. You're just slandering me but what did you reject?
You rejected scholars like Raphael Chijioke Njoku, Gordon Kerr and Zeynab Ali who all have PHD on history and they showed evidence of a 12th century historian confirming Mogadishu being populated by Somalis and that the Somali merchants established a colony in Sofala.
Let me show you what the sources of these historians claim and have evidence for it one more time.
A 12th century historian called Yaqut al-Hamawi stated that Mogadishu was inhabited by Swarthly Berbers who are ancestors of Somali people today. Last time I checked Shirazi people are not dark skin nor were they ever referred as Bilad Al-Berber or Barbara, that was an ancient and medieval term to describe the Somalis back then.
The sources clearly states Somali merchants from Mogadishu established a colony in Sofala. No misinterpretation here.
Source: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=FlL2vE_qRQ8C&pg=PA36&dq=somali+merchants+established+a+colony+in+sofala&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi8g-jOjcjcAhXqLcAKHXXsB-wQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=somali merchants established a colony in sofala&f=false
Here is everything Ibn Battuta wrote about Mogadishu in the 13th century. Where does in day that there were more West asians than Somalis? He said that from Zeila to Mogadishu was Bilad Al-Berber land (medieval name for Somalis).
Source: http://www.classzone.com/books/wh_05_shared/pdf/WHS05_015_424_PS.pdf
I mean he met the Somali ruler of Mogadishu and said he was dark skin part of Bilad Al-Berber race that spoke his native tongue (Somali).
By the way, we both know Somalis were referred as Bilad Al-Berber or Barbara by the Arabs during the middle ages and I'll post an evidence just so you know I'm right.
Link: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=JpNY7VPn1WUC&pg=PA130&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
Now get the hell outta of my thread. You've been debunked again!
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Firstly, Abdullahi Abdurahman debunks Dr Hersi multiple times in his books.
Secondly, I never rejected any Arab/Persian settements and contribution to Benadir history but all I'm saying is the Benadir coast including Mogadishu was ruled and dominated by Somalis and that's a fact. I even showed you multiple sources on that and you still rejected them all just because it debunks your lying theories. You're just slandering me but what did you reject?
You rejected scholars like Raphael Chijioke Njoku, Gordon Kerr and Zeynab Ali who all have PHD on history and they showed evidence of a 12th century historian confirming Mogadishu being populated by Somalis and that the Somali merchants established a colony in Sofala.
Let me show you what the sources of these historians claim and have evidence for it one more time.
A 12th century historian called Yaqut al-Hamawi stated that Mogadishu was inhabited by Swarthly Berbers who are ancestors of Somali people today. Last time I checked Shirazi people are not dark skin nor were they ever referred as Bilad Al-Berber or Barbara, that was an ancient and medieval term to describe the Somalis back then.
The sources clearly states Somali merchants from Mogadishu established a colony in Sofala. No misinterpretation here.
Source: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=FlL2vE_qRQ8C&pg=PA36&dq=somali+merchants+established+a+colony+in+sofala&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi8g-jOjcjcAhXqLcAKHXXsB-wQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=somali merchants established a colony in sofala&f=false
As for Imam Qadi. The fact is he was a medieval historian and he visited Mogadishu and the Benadir coast. He debunks the whole fallacy of Mogadishu being an Arab/Persian enclave. I posted a source earlier which you didn't bother reading when it says the Arabs got permission from the local Somali rulers to settle in Mogadishu and remained small and powerless in Mogadishu.
Now get the hell outta of my thread. You've been debunked again!
Your stuff might be worth reading if you could connect your link to your source and stick with real ones. But you are still calling the qadi Imam Qadi and not realizing that is his office and not his name.
Sofala was a small island with a trading post. There was no gold to be mined there, and the merchants were clearly Arab merchants from Somalia. They were definitely not Samaales. You understand "hinterland".
https://www.britannica.com/place/Sofala
Sofala’s harbour was the oldest harbour in southern Africa. It was visited by Arabs beginning in 915 in order to trade the gold from the hinterland. Persian Muslims settled there in 1020, and during the 14th and 15th centuries Sofala was an important southern outpost of the Islāmic sultanate of Kilwa. During this time the Arabs maintained trade relations with the Karanga state, which centred on the Zimbabwe monuments in the southeastern region of what is now the modern state of Zimbabwe. In 1480 Sofala was visited by the Portuguese Pêro da Covilhã, seeking gold, and in 1505 the Portuguese Pedro (or Pêro) de Anaia occupied Sofala and built a fort and factory in the hope of capturing the gold trade held by the Arabs. The conquest of the town followed, the first governors of the Portuguese East African possessions being entitled captains general of Sofala. The Dominican friars established themselves in 1586 and directed from there their Roman Catholic missionary activities into the interior.
https://www.britannica.com/place/Mozambique/The-rise-of-the-zimbabwe-civilizations#ref480187
From roughly the 10th to the 18th century, Great Zimbabwe and the area of Central Africa around Lake Kisale (in present-day Katanga province of the Democratic Republic of the Congo) were the region’s centres of production and intra-African trade. Beginning in at least the 1st millennium, however, people of this region traded with various non-Africans. The earliest and most important external trade link for Mozambique was with Middle Eastern and South Asian peoples who traded beads and cloth for gold across the Red Sea and the Indian Ocean.
By the 14th century, African Arab, or Swahili, trade cities were flourishing along the coast from Somalia in the north to Kilwa in what is now southern Tanzania. Smaller Swahili sultanates developed along the northern coast of Mozambique as far south as Angoche. A series of markets had arisen throughout the region by the 16th century, sustained by intraregional trade in raw materials and long-distance trade in gold, copper, ivory, and slaves.
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Repeated BS is still BS.
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Man you are the most ignorant person to debate with. Your blog doesn't even say Arab merchants from Mogadishu established a colony in Sofala. You're just repeating bullshit while your sources say something else. You're always conflating and bullshitting at the same time. I've given you list of three historians with PHD, your opinions don't matter and they have been debunked.
Just remember Sofala was a gold colony for the Somali merchants from Mogadishu and Mogadishu according to many medieval historians, it was dominated by Somalis so deal with it.
Just realize the medieval historian I posted who visited Mogadishu himself explicitly states that Mogadishu was neither an Arab or Persian enclave but largely a Somali town. That right there is enough and why did you ignore my other sources?
You can talk about Arabs all you want and try to discredit the Somali history but just remember the Arabs that came to Mogadishu got a permission from the local Somali rulers to settle and they paid tribute to the local Somalis just to stay in Mogadishu. On top of that, they remained as a minority and powerless in Mogadishu. They eventually became Somalinized Arabs.
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Dirty Arabs always want to claim our achievements. Since when the f*ck did Yemeni runaways founded Mogadishu? A city in its ancient history was known as Sarapion? Stick to claiming the Swahili coast. Niggas introduced xalwa and wanna get bold on revision.
Man you are the most ignorant person to debate with. Your blog doesn't even say Arab merchants from Mogadishu established a colony in Sofala. You're just repeating bullshit while your sources say something else. You're always conflating and bullshitting at the same time. I've given you list of three historians with PHD, your opinions don't matter and they have been debunked.
Just realize the medieval historian I posted who visited Mogadishu himself explicitly states that Mogadishu was neither an Arab or Persian enclave but largely a Somali town. That right there is enough and why did you ignore my other sources?
You can talk about Arabs all you want and try to discredit the Somali history but just remember the Arabs that came to Mogadishu got a permission from the local Somali rulers to settle and they paid tribute to the local Somalis just to stay in Mogadishu. On top of that, they remained as a minority and powerless in Mogadishu. They eventually became Somalinized Arabs.
Linkless, and an opinion for sure. Why not check out the real deal?
The Origins and Development of Mogadishu AD 1000 to 1850 Al!med Dualel! Jama
http://www.uu.se/digitalAssets/32/c_32403-l_3-k_jama.pdf
Begin reading page 33:
3.1. Historical documents and oral traditions The antiquity of some of the coastal settlements along the shores of Somalia, such as those in the Benadir is not questionable, despite the survival of only a few monuments, which are mainly mosques and minaras that have been renovated for present use (Ahmed 1978, p. 10). However, the founding dates of almost all of the Somali coastal settlements are still a matter of research. In spite of that, much is known from the classical documentary sources, especially from Arab writers, who have provided us with some general insights into the ways of life of the coastal peoples within the context of the seaborne trade. We learn very little, however, about their material culture from the historical sources. As regards the origins of Somali coastal towns, there is reported to have been an influx of immigrants from Arabia in the aftennath of the Prophet's death (Powells 1975). As early as the tenth century AD, members of a group of merchant immigrants, from the Al-Ahsa district, on the Persian Gulf, who fled to the Somali coasts, are supposed to have founded Mogadishu and Barawa arnong other places (Kirkman 1964; Cbittick 1977; Hersi 1977; Horton 1984). Despite the efforts made by Chittick, no systematic research has confirmed traces of the ports mentioned in the Periplus, except Hafun. Recent oral, written and archaeological evidence, however, contradicts the outright view of the Middle Eastern origins of the coastal settlements. Firstly, the guide book called the Periplus oj the Erythraean Sea, written in the first century AD, and translated several times into English by various scholars ' such as Casson, under the title of the Periplus Maris Erythraei, alludes to those towns as 'Sarapion' and 'Nicon' respectively (Casson 1989, pp. 138- 39). Secondly, the inscription on the tombstone of a lady who died in Mogadishu in the year 101 of the Islamic calendar would, with substantial justification, put the foundation of the city in the first century AH (HersL 1977, p. 91). This indicates the existence ofthe town before the arrival ofthe Al-Ahsa group. There are also other tombstones and mosque inscriptions in Shangani, where most of the old tombs are found. The earliest of them, recorded by Cerulli in 1920, is that for Abu Abdulla B. Raya b. Muhammad b. Ahmad an-Nayasaburi al-khursani, who died in Rabi' al-Awalin (614 AH) · (AD 1217). Another inscription is records the death of Muhammad ibn Abdusarnad ibn Muhammad Al Husayn in 670 AH (9th August AD 1271 to July 1272), (Cerulli 1957a, p. 4).
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Please notice that those earliest names are Persian.
Recording debunked traditions from the refuge and exiled Cadcads doesn't prove anything. You're again using opinions.
These are authentic sources. Arabs did not found or rule shit, they got permission from the Somalis to settle in Mogadishu. They paid tribute to the local Somali rulers to stay and Somalis retained their political dominance and stayed as the majority in Mogadishu. This source debunks the traditions made by west Asians.
Here is the link: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=3SapTk5iGDkC&pg=PA252&dq=despite+the+traditions+muslim+immigrants+founded+benadir&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiyw8fL_4PdAhUiLcAKHVHUAv4Q6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=despite the traditions muslim immigrants founded benadir&f=false
Modern day scholars all agree Mogadishu existed way before Islam and goes back to the first century and it's believed to be Sarapion. It used to be part of the Somali city-states and it was inhabited by the Barbara people who are believed to be the ancestors of modern day Somalis.
Source: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=X1dDDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA48&dq=Sarapion+mogadishu&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjm87u0goTdAhXIKcAKHc4cBJUQ6AEILzAB#v=onepage&q=Sarapion mogadishu&f=false
You just need to realize that neither Arab or Persians founded Mogadishu and secondly, they were refugees who were accepted by the local Somalis to settle in Mogadishu according to the authentic source I posted at the top. Now please exit out from my thread, I am done educating you.
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