Most Famous Somali Sheikh is in Hot Water again against Somali Female Politician

[anonimo]

Through harm and many scholars talk about men not harming women. If the encounter causes harm and issues for the wife then it is indeed abuse and she can pettion to the courts the same way she could with DV. In most cases of sexual abuse there is an element of DV any way which makes it even easier to prove.

Of course it is. Zina is outside of marriage and one is within marriage.

I’ll send you a really good article that tacklers it.

Walaal, you blatantly bullshitted about my posts. Where did I go that sexual abuse in the semantic sense cannot happen in marriage? Did I not previously use the semantic meaning of 'rape' to describe a husband forcing himself upon his wife? If you are going to accuse me of shit which ain't true, back it up or own up to your slander.

Rape comes under sexual abuse, any accusation of sexual abuse will have to meet the legal requirements in Sharia Law hence my argument that it is not necessarily legally enforceable on a husband. As a matter of fact, I made the argument that she can seek redress in the Courts for spousal abuse but not necessarily for sexual abuse in the form of rape etc. because there is no scope for it in the Sharia.

What you are choosing to ignore in this debate is that the conscience of the average unknowledgeable Westernised or Semi-Westernised Muslim woman raised in the West does not allow them to accept that Sharia Law does not punish husbands for raping their wife under the Zina rules hence the cognitive dissonance, or rejection of Sharia in extreme cases where they feel completely turned off by the whole legal apparatus. For example, do you think they will find it palatable that a husband will just have to financially compensate their wife for raping her because the Zina punishment is not applicable to them if it falls under a form of domestic abuse involving the use of violence?

I will ask you again, what is the legal ruling regarding 'sexual assaults' in marriage as you put it? What are the legal precedents during inherited from the classical scholars? What is the burden of proof?

 

[tyrannicalmanager]

Sxb, please delete this. Let’s not chase people from our religion.

I was wrong, i was getting frustrated when i read 8 pages of a person wanting a direct answer on a concept that isn't recognised in the religion.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

I was wrong, i was getting frustrated when i read 8 pages of a person wanting a direct answer on a concept that isn't recognised in the religion.

Did someone hold you down and 'force' you to read all 8 pages?

 

[Man with a garuun]

Why exactly is he mad at a bill that barely, just barely, helps stops sexual violence? Why do they not want any laws that criminalizes rapists? Why does he feel the need to protect rapists?

He’s literally insulting her and claiming she’s paid by westerners and that soon she’ll be pro-lgbt all because of a law that could help women and young girls. Is this y’all sheikh? Wasn’t he also a terrorist sympathizer? People in the comments of the video are takfiring her too. Shameful.

This girl's attention-seeking threads are annoying. The bill is not about protecting women and girls; it was sponsored by EU and is designed LGBTQ agenda. Hiding it behind "protecting" women and girls won't hide the ultimate goal of this bill.

Sacdiya girl who was driving this bill is a fraud too. It was reported that she was paid a few million USD to promote this qawma-luud bill.

 

[Angelina]

Walaal, you blatantly bullshitted about my posts. Where did I go that sexual abuse in the semantic sense cannot happen in marriage? Did I not previously use the semantic meaning of 'rape' to describe a husband forcing himself upon his wife? If you are going to accuse me of shit which ain't true, back it up or own up to your slander.

Rape comes under sexual abuse, any accusation of sexual abuse will have to meet the legal requirements in Sharia Law hence my argument that it is not necessarily legally enforceable on a husband.

Sexual abuse is simply to abuse someone in a sexual manner and that is a form of harm. My question is, do you honestly believe that a man that forces himself on his wife and uses violence cannot be punished if she petitioned in court?

As a matter of fact I made the argument that she can seek redress in the Courts for spousal abuse but not necessarily for sexual abuse in the form of rape etc. because there is no scope for it in the Sharia.

Spousal abuse comes in many forms, physical, emotional and sexual. Why would she not be able to tell the courts what type of abuse is going on and where do you get that proof she can’t.

What you are choosing to ignore in this debate is that the conscience of the average unknowledgeable Westernised or Semi-Westernised Muslim woman raised in the West does not allow them to accept that Sharia Law does not punish husbands for raping their wife under the Zina rules

The husband will not be punished by death or lashing which is the usual punishment for zina, but she can take him to court for abusing her and you make it seem that abusing your wife sexually is allowed or it is something he can get away with

hence the cognitive dissonance, or rejection of Sharia in extreme cases where they feel completely turned off by the whole legal apparatus.

What turns women off is the belief that a man can or get away with sexually abusing his wife and using the angels will curse you Hadith as justification.

For example, do you think they will find it palatable that a husband will just have to financially compensate their wife for raping her because the Zina punishment is not applicable to them if it falls under a form of domestic abuse involving the use of violence?

How do you know that the husband will Simply have to financially

I will ask you again, what is the legal ruling regarding 'sexual assaults' in marriage as you put it? What are the legal precedents during inherited from the classical scholars? What is the burden of proof?

It comes under the harm principle. Classical scholars don’t even use terms such as emotional abuse ect but we call know that name calling and talking vile towards one’s spouse is clearly haram and a woman will be able to approach a qadi.

Anyways, read this and this is what I’ve been saying the whole time, yet you refuse to

If the husband used violence to force his wife she can go to court and file a complaint against him to get punished. The woman also has the right to refuse to engage in sexual relationship with her husband if he has a contagious disease or use violence which hurts her body during the sexual intercourse.

NotFound

www.dar-alifta.org

Nevertheless, forced sexual intercourse within marriage falls under another prohibited legal category in Islamic law: harming the wife. The classical scholars upheld the fundamental right of a wife to be free from harm. If a man forces his wife into sexual intercourse against her will, he can only do so by harming her and this makes his action unlawful. Marital rape, then, is more properly understood as an issue of domestic violence, an issue that was well-known to Muslim jurists since the time of the Prophet until today and for which we have ample Nevertheless, forced sexual intercourse within marriage falls under another prohibited legal category in Islamic law: harming the wife. The classical scholars upheld the fundamental right of a wife to be free from harm. If a man forces his wife into sexual intercourse against her will, he can only do so by harming her and this makes his action unlawful. Marital rape, then, is more properly understood as an issue of domestic violence, an issue that was well-known to Muslim jurists since the time of the Prophet until today and for which we have ample precedent.

Marital rape and domestic violence in Islamic law

www.abuaminaelias.com

 

[tyrannicalmanager]

Did someone hold you down and 'force' you to read all 8 pages?

no, I'm a person who likes to read the entirety of the thread before I post something.
I apologize for my comment, it was entirely uncalled for.

 

[Man with a garuun]

Why are these men fighting about this if someone r*ped your ass wouldn’t you want them to get punished? R*pe against little boys in somalia has become more common, I remember seeing a video of little boy who gangr*ped & no one helped him. Shit had me cry ugly on the train.

Sodomy is punishable by death under Islamic law. What people are opposing is how the bill legalizes sodomy.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Sodomy is punishable by death under Islamic law. What people are opposing is how the bill legalizes sodomy.

Why can't Somalis make their own laws to protect vulnerable people? We can blame gaalo all day, everyday, but when there is a moral vacuum, others will try to dictate to us.

 

[Sajid]

The wife need to have a valid reason to refuse having sex with her husband like sickness or period or it's Ramadan or having sex will cause physical problem.

Other than that she don't have right to refuse and if she did then the angels will curse her.

Now this isn't defending men btw.

Marriage isn't a small thing it's a contract with a person you love a person you are ready to spend your life with and many responsibility come with that.

The women want to get money and get a house and get meher and get provided with all essential things and in return she must obey her husband on halal things and do her house duty when he isn't there

The man want to answer the call of nature and see his house as a resting place when he return from work, in return he must provide financial support to his family and will be responsible of any lack of family financial if he had the power and didn't do his job.

 

[Man with a garuun]

Why can't Somalis make their own laws to protect vulnerable people? We can blame gaalo all day, everyday, but when there is a moral vacuum, others will try to dictate to us.

We're discussing this law that promotes sodomy. Stop hiding behind moral vaccuum. If there is a bill that is solely written to protect young boys, girl, and women, everyone with a sound mind would support it. But some women, funded by gaalo, try to promote LGBTQ lifestyle, Somali society will reject it. No matter how many times some "feminists" try to sugarcoat it won't deter the larger Somali society from seeing thru their filth.

That being said, the basis of Somali law - as defined in the Somali constitution - is the Sharia law. And crime whose punishment already defined in the Holy Quran would only require enforcement. No need for gaalo-funded bills that promote sodomy while they're hidden as "protecting women and children". Give me a break!

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

We're discussing this law that promotes sodomy. Stop hiding behind moral vaccuum. If there is a bill that is solely written to protect young boys, girl, and women, everyone with a sound mind would support it. But some women, funded by gaalo, try to promote LGBTQ lifestyle, Somali society will reject it. No matter how many times some "feminists" try to sugarcoat it won't deter the larger Somali society from seeing thru their filth.

That being said, the basis of Somali law - as defined in the Somali constitution - is the Sharia law. And crime whose punishment already defined in the Holy Quran would only require enforcement. No need for gaalo-funded bills that promote sodomy while they're hidden as "protecting women and children". Give me a break!

Most Somalis and even Muslims don't understand Shariah law ok. It needs to be made clear and accessible to the masses so that people know what is legal and illegal.

You ask me to stop hiding behind a moral vacuum and 'give you a break' but your fellow man, like the person I quoted, think wives are sex slaves. Instead of focusing on feminists, who your body will be safe from, focus on telling men, that no, they cannot force themselves on a woman simply because she signed nikaax papers.

 

[anonimo]

@Angelina

Spousal abuse comes in many forms, physical, emotional and sexual. Why would she not be able to tell the courts what type of abuse is going on and where do you get that proof she can’t.

I never argued that there are no punishments, I clearly stated that she can seek redress in court for spousal abuse but it will not come under the classification of sexual abuse in the traditional sense of the word in a Sharia Court of Law. The evidence you posted supports my stance!

The husband will not be punished by death or lashing which is the usual punishment, but she can take him to court for abusing her and you make it seem that abusing your wife sexually is allowed or it is something he can get away with

What turns women off is the belief that a man can or get away with sexually abusing his wife and using the angels will curse you Hadith as justification.

How do you know that the husband will Simply have to financially

You are again putting words in my mouth, I was clear that she can seek redress in the courts but not for rape in the traditional Sharia sense of the word but under the spousal abuse category.

However you want to dress it up, for many Westernised women lacking in knowledge of classical Islam the fact that it will not be considered rape in a Sharia Court is the issue at hand. They have an issue with Islamic Law as practiced by the classical scholars hence why they are up in arms about the absence of 'marital rape' in Islamic Law.

In DV cases involving the use of unreasonable force, I have not asserted that financial compensation is the sole punishment meted out but it is one of the traditional modes of redress along with divorce in classical Islam. It is down to the Qadi to determine the nature of the offence and the proportionate ruling. From your own Abuabuaminaelias source, a woman who is subjected to aggression in marriage during the time of the Prophet SAWS was granted divorce because of spousal abuse.

Moreover, the wife has the right to seek a divorce if the husband harms her in an intolerable manner. The Prophet once dissolved the marriage of a couple because the wife could no longer tolerate the husband’s abusive behavior.

Yahya ibn Sa’eed reported: Habeeba bint Sahl was the wife of Thabit ibn Qais and it was mentioned to the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, that they were married and she was his neighbor. Thabit had struck her, so she appeared at the door of the Prophet and she said, “Thabit and I can no longer be married.” The Prophet said to Thabit:

خُذْ مِنْهَا وَخَلِّ سَبِيلَهَا
Take what she owes to you and let her go her way.
Source: Sunan al-Dārimī 2200, Grade: Sahih

Based on such traditions, the scholars provided abused wives with legal protection and the right to seek a divorce in such cases.

As-Sayyid Sabiq writes:

ذهب الإمام مالك أن للزوجة أن تطلب من القاضي التفريق إذا ادعت إضرار الزوج بها إضرارا لا يستطاع معه دوام العشرة بين أمثالهما مثل ضربها أو سبها أو إيذائها بأي نوع من أنواع الايذاء الذي لا يطاق أو إكراهها على منكر من القول أو الفعل
Imam Malik adhered to the opinion that the wife has a right to seek separation by decree of the judge if she claims that the husband has greatly harmed her such that it is not possible for them to continue in marital association. For example, he hits her, abuses her, or harms her in an intolerable way, or he forces her to commit evil in word or deed.

Is this the legal precedent that the website you have quoted is using to determine what sort of justice can be served to a woman who complains of marital rape in Islamic Law? It is ironic how your own source demonstrates that there is no legal precedent for marital rape as it was never an issue in the past hence why there is no Sharia ruling specifically addressing marital rape or sexual abuse. Hence, why it falls under spousal abuse, the point I previously raised.

Anyways, read this and this is what I’ve been saying the whole time, yet you refuse to

Where have I refused anything that has a sound base in the Deen? You are always making accusations which are slanderous, I ask you again, where in this thread have I refused an Islamic fact?

I have a question for you which might require some reasearch if you already have not. You always state that one must stick to one Madhab. As a follower of Fawzan's School, what is their ruling regarding the punishment meted out to man who forces himself upon his wife?

 

[Man with a garuun]

Most Somalis and even Muslims don't understand Shariah law ok. It needs to be made clear and accessible to the masses so that people know what is legal and illegal.

You ask me to stop hiding behind a moral vacuum and 'give you a break' but your fellow man, like the person I quoted, think wives are sex slaves. Instead of focusing on feminists, who your body will be safe from, focus on telling men, that no, they cannot force themselves on a woman simply because she signed nikaax papers.

I've never stated anything about man forcing himself onto his wife. That is a topic that I believe needs an understanding between the husband and the wife without coercion.

Now, coming back to this topic, the bill in question doesn't specifically address the cases that its supporters are promoting to the public. They don't specifically address the issue of rape against women, young girls, or young boys. What they did is, they took the whole rape and say you can't put your ceeb (men) in couchie, meesha laga xaaro, or any opening in the other person's body without their consent.

Now, what do they mean when they make that statement? They're basically legalizing qawmaluud. They were paving the way for sodomy to be openly performed within Somalia with the protection of this bill.

Alaxamdulillaah, they failed in their mission as the Somali parliament rejected it.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

@anonimo

sexual violations do take place within marriage examples include forcing the wife to have vaginal sex during her period, forcing her to have anal intercourse, using objects & forcefully inserting them leading to tears etc. The list is endless tbh laakin such actions were usually categorised as those that harm the wife. As a result of it a lot of women develop life long problems, imagine a husband forces himself on the wife and she develops urinary issues.

So even though sexual violence/abuse are relatively modern terms this doesn't mean that scholars didn't acknowledge that violations didn't occur within the marriage. On the contrary they did it's just that they categorised it differently.

I also agree that it's important to look at & be careful when we utilise terms and concepts as defined by gaalada as this creates more issues. Some of these terms are very problematic as they encompass things that can never be justified islamically if a husband kisses or touches his wife in a sexual manner without her moral consent is this sexual abuse/assault etc ? will such an action be prosecuted in islamic court ? waa maya

A lot of these terms have been defined based on the secular notions of bodily autonomy & as a result will be against islamic norms & values relating to this.


Laakin the above is different to a case where the wife developed serious genital injuries as a result of the husband forcing himself upon her, this would be dealt with differently as opposed to the former case. This is why i believe we need to be nuanced and look at case accordingly .

Adoonka I think it’s a bit obvious as to why she’s confused.

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[anonimo]

@anonimo

sexual violations do take place within marriage examples include forcing the wife to have vaginal sex during her period, forcing her to have anal intercourse, using objects & forcefully inserting them leading to tears etc. The list is endless tbh laakin such actions were usually categorised as those that harm the wife. As a result of it a lot of women develop life long problems, imagine a husband forces himself on the wife and she develops urinary issues.

So even though sexual violence/abuse are relatively modern terms this doesn't mean that scholars didn't acknowledge that violations didn't occur within the marriage. On the contrary they did it's just that they categorised it differently.

Walaal, have I argued that sexual violations do not occur? I have simply stated that rape and sexual assaults that come under the Zina category are non-existent in Sharia in relation to marriage. Can anyone refute this Islamically speaking? Any sexual abuse that occurs in marriage comes under spousal abuse which I first highlighted.

You have a familiarity with different Madhabs, is it true that the Hanafi Fiqh permits a man to rape his wife if she has no valid reason to refuse intercourse?

 

[Man with a garuun]

Umal is a masquerading extreme salafists, Allah knows how many terrorists he’s inspired.

He is a learned Muslim scholar who does his best to spread Islam.

 

[Man with a garuun]

Nothing to do with dominance, a caliphate has to be from the Banu quraysh in the opinion of the ahlul sunnah wal jammah. It was the shiites who believe the rulership only belongs to the descendants of Ali and Fatima and the kharijites who believed everyone can become the ruler/Imam/caliph

Also the ummayad and abbasid were legitimate in the eyes of the sunnites as they are from the Banu quraysh

Any Muslim group, region, or a country who choose an Islamic government based on consensus can do so without proving or looking for who is descendant of the Quraish. Mamluks, Ayuubis, Ottomans etc were all legitimate Caliphates.

The word khalif means leader in English. So Caliphate means leadership. Muslims can choose leadership amongst the best men of them through consensus.

Stop the narrow interpretation of the hadiths.

 

[Man with a garuun]

Wtf is Xsomali?

Gaal.

 

[Mantiq_Al-gharb]

I've never stated anything about man forcing himself onto his wife. That is a topic that I believe needs an understanding between the husband and the wife without coercion.

Now, coming back to this topic, the bill in question doesn't specifically address the cases that its supporters are promoting to the public. They don't specifically address the issue of rape against women, young girls, or young boys. What they did is, they took the whole rape and say you can't put your ceeb (men) in couchie, meesha laga xaaro, or any opening in the other person's body without their consent.

Now, what do they mean when they make that statement? They're basically legalizing qawmaluud. They were paving the way for sodomy to be openly performed within Somalia with the protection of this bill.

Alaxamdulillaah, they failed in their mission as the Somali parliament rejected it.

Was this bill proposed solely for western gibs or was there a secular motive behind it?

 

[Kane]

If Islamic law is too inferior, to cater to your new found liberal values, then there is the door.

But do not try to force Islam to change, just so you can feel better about yourself.

Because Islam already has a Master and he goes by the of name Allah.