Muslims, I need your input

[axmedxajiisback]

No it's your argument which is completely flawed, i find it rather funny that as an atheist you pass moral judgements considering that you don't believe in objective morality. Since moral judgements are subjective and can't be proven to be either right or wrong how did you come to an objective conclusion regarding the marriage ? if it doesn't sit well with you why should your opinion matter to us ? why should your subjective view on morality be taken as the standard that we have to judge by ?

I assume that you believe that morality has nothing to do with God and that it's dependent on the person and culture. So technically speaking what's morally right or wrong to you is different to another person. We each have our way to determine what's morally right or wrong so when our views on morality clash why in the world should i or any other muslim take yours as the standard ? My morality is based on the Quran and Sunnah yours is based on whatever your limited intellect is convinced off why should yours matter to me ?


Judging the marriage based on your own self defined moral values and expecting us to agree with it is what i call delusion.




Please do explain

If all religions are a lie islam included how are you a muslim? you can't be an atheist and a believer it's a logical impossibility its like claiming you're dead and alive at the same time.

No it's your argument which is completely flawed, i find it rather funny that as an atheist you pass moral judgements considering that you don't believe in objective morality. Since moral judgements are subjective and can't be proven to be either right or wrong how did you come to an objective conclusion regarding the marriage ? if it doesn't sit well with you why should your opinion matter to us ? why should your subjective view on morality be taken as the standard that we have to judge by ?.[/QUOTE]

There is a clear right and wrong, regardless of your religious affiliation. Humans are built with the ability to tell injustice from justice.

she was 9 when she was married. Guess how old was the mother of jesus was when she got married. 12 years old. ayesha's father is none other than the prophet's best friend, the first caliph and the greatest muslim ever after prophets.

Women those days got married young. They had the maturity level of 20 year old girls of today. seriously.

Women those days did get married young. This is the prophet of islam we are talking about. He was supposed to be the example for mankind for all time, not caught up in 7th century norms. Praying to an invisible god and circling a pagan rock was also a 7th century norm

 

[Dino]

No it's your argument which is completely flawed, i find it rather funny that as an atheist you pass moral judgements considering that you don't believe in objective morality. Since moral judgements are subjective and can't be proven to be either right or wrong how did you come to an objective conclusion regarding the marriage ? if it doesn't sit well with you why should your opinion matter to us ? why should your subjective view on morality be taken as the standard that we have to judge by ?.

There is a clear right and wrong, regardless of your religious affiliation. Humans are built with the ability to tell injustice from justice.

Women those days did get married young. This is the prophet of islam we are talking about. He was supposed to be the example for mankind for all time, not caught up in 7th century norms. Praying to an invisible god and circling a pagan rock was also a 7th century norm[/QUOTE]


the prophet's first wife was a widow in her fourties. let's see what 7th century norms the prophet broke

Worshipping idols
banning alcohol
banning the burial of girls
giving women the right to property
breaking apart arab tribal customs
glorifying the freeing of slaves
turned a bunch of uncouth people into a fighting religious self respected people. even his enemies like abu sufyan who fought him became a muslim. Beat that.


The prophet came to fulfil earlier revelations. what you call praying to an invisible God started with Noah. Seriously you are so dumb have you got anything else to talk about. i am still waiting for the jesus crying on the cross question

 

[SecretAgent]

@axmedxajiisback there is no proof she was 9 or 12 she was between 15-18.

 

[EternalLightX]

@axmedxajiisback there is no proof she was 9 or 12 she was between 15-18.

Where is your proof on that are you refuting the sahib Hadith you Murtad !!!

 

[SuldaanGuled]

There is a clear right and wrong, regardless of your religious affiliation. Humans are built with the ability to tell injustice from justice

You don't get it do you ?

What you deem as either justice or injustice is based on a set of principles that you judge by. Under islamic law the marriage was legal but you have a problem with it since it doesn't suit your set of principles. You're outraged by it and deem it to be morally reprehensible questions is why should your view matter to me ? because you aren't ok with it the same should apply to us ?

There's a lot of things that i consider to be morally wrong like homosexuality, sex outside marriage etc the reason they are wrong is they go against islamic law which are my set of principles that i choose to live by. In islam the greatest injustice is shirk would you agree with this ? of course not since you use different set of principles than me.

Why should we as muslims take your views, set of principles as the standard and live by them ?

You major flaw in your above statement was to assume that we see things the same way, we simply don't. Had this been case then there would've never been a disagreement to begin with but is this the case ? no, so stop appealing to an objective morality when you don't believe in it.

 

[axmedxajiisback]

@axmedxajiisback there is no proof she was 9 or 12 she was between 15-18.

are you joking?

 

[axmedxajiisback]

You don't get it do you ?

What you deem as either justice or injustice is based on a set of principles that you judge by. Under islamic law the marriage was legal but you have a problem with it since it doesn't suit your set of principles. You're outraged by it and deem it to be morally reprehensible questions is why should your view matter to me ? because you aren't ok with it the same should apply to us ?

There's a lot of things that i consider to be morally wrong like homosexuality, sex outside marriage etc the reason they are wrong is they go against islamic law which are my set of principles that i choose to live by. In islam the greatest injustice is shirk would you agree with this ? of course not since you use different set of principles than me.

Why should we as muslims take your views, set of principles as the standard and live by them ?

You major flaw in your above statement was to assume that we see things the same way, we simply don't. Had this been case then there would've never been a disagreement to begin with but is this the case ? no, so stop appealing to an objective morality when you don't believe in it.

Objective morality is avoiding things that hurt other human beings, like killing them, raping them, robbing them, imprisoning them, insulting them and deceiving them, among other things. Those things are objectively wrong. Objective morality is not hurting others who haven't hurt you or anyone else. In other words don't do injustice unless the person you're doing it to deserves it, in which case it isn't injustice.

Your version of morality is not logical in any way. On the commands of some entity you've never seen anywhere, you are willing to hurt others regardless of whether they deserve it or not.

So, killing 600 men and boys and enslaving their families because they reject your prophethood is objectively immoral. Those people don't deserve death because they haven't hurt anyone.

 

[axmedxajiisback]

There is a clear right and wrong, regardless of your religious affiliation. Humans are built with the ability to tell injustice from justice.

Women those days did get married young. This is the prophet of islam we are talking about. He was supposed to be the example for mankind for all time, not caught up in 7th century norms. Praying to an invisible god and circling a pagan rock was also a 7th century norm

the prophet's first wife was a widow in her fourties. let's see what 7th century norms the prophet broke

Worshipping idols
banning alcohol
banning the burial of girls
giving women the right to property
breaking apart arab tribal customs
glorifying the freeing of slaves
turned a bunch of uncouth people into a fighting religious self respected people. even his enemies like abu sufyan who fought him became a muslim. Beat that.


The prophet came to fulfil earlier revelations. what you call praying to an invisible God started with Noah. Seriously you are so dumb have you got anything else to talk about. i am still waiting for the jesus crying on the cross question[/QUOTE]

- Circling the Ka'ba was a pagan tradition and Muhammad just gave it an Islamic twist
- He banned alcohol but permitted something much worse: murder and jihadist terror
- He banned the burial of girls but said 99% of people in hell will be girls, that husbands can beat disobedient wives, that you can rape girls taken in war, that a woman's testimony is 1/2 of a man's, and many other odious things
- He broke apart Arab tribal customs to unite them in his cause of jihad and conquest. How did that work out for the Arab world?
- He held slaves and traded them for Muslim slaves. Compare this to 20th century Americans that fought a giant civil war to eradicate among other things, slavery, not trade other people into slavery.
- Abu Sufyan was a fucking idiot. Not sure if that's a good way to judge things

The prophet memorized 7th century Jewish tales and gave them an Islamic twist. You do know that the story of Noah isn't real, right? There is no historical record of a global flood and an ark big enough to house every living thing. Also, you do know that the entire Christian story of creation is a joke, right? That god created a man and then from his rib a woman?

 

[Dino]

Objective morality is avoiding things that hurt other human beings, like killing them, raping them, robbing them, imprisoning them, insulting them and deceiving them, among other things. Those things are objectively wrong. Objective morality is not hurting others who haven't hurt you or anyone else. In other words don't do injustice unless the person you're doing it to deserves it, in which case it isn't injustice.

Your version of morality is not logical in any way. On the commands of some entity you've never seen anywhere, you are willing to hurt others regardless of whether they deserve it or not.

So, killing 600 men and boys and enslaving their families because they reject your prophethood is objectively immoral. Those people don't deserve death because they haven't hurt anyone.

yawn. i don't think we are going to take morality lessons from drunkards like you.

 

[axmedxajiisback]

yawn. i don't think we are going to take morality lessons from drunkards like you.

You're better off taking morality lessons from a drunkard than Muhammad, who gave this hideous advice when he was SOBER

 

[SecretAgent]

are you joking?

http://www.discoveringislam.org/aisha_age.htm

 

[Dino]

the prophet's first wife was a widow in her fourties. let's see what 7th century norms the prophet broke

Worshipping idols
banning alcohol
banning the burial of girls
giving women the right to property
breaking apart arab tribal customs
glorifying the freeing of slaves
turned a bunch of uncouth people into a fighting religious self respected people. even his enemies like abu sufyan who fought him became a muslim. Beat that.


The prophet came to fulfil earlier revelations. what you call praying to an invisible God started with Noah. Seriously you are so dumb have you got anything else to talk about. i am still waiting for the jesus crying on the cross question

- Circling the Ka'ba was a pagan tradition and Muhammad just gave it an Islamic twist
- He banned alcohol but permitted something much worse: murder and jihadist terror
- He banned the burial of girls but said 99% of people in hell will be girls, that husbands can beat disobedient wives, that you can rape girls taken in war, that a woman's testimony is 1/2 of a man's, and many other odious things
- He broke apart Arab tribal customs to unite them in his cause of jihad and conquest. How did that work out for the Arab world?
- He held slaves and traded them for Muslim slaves. Compare this to 20th century Americans that fought a giant civil war to eradicate among other things, slavery, not trade other people into slavery.
- Abu Sufyan was a fucking idiot. Not sure if that's a good way to judge things

The prophet memorized 7th century Jewish tales and gave them an Islamic twist. You do know that the story of Noah isn't real, right? There is no historical record of a global flood and an ark big enough to house every living thing. Also, you do know that the entire Christian story of creation is a joke, right? That god created a man and then from his rib a woman?[/QUOTE]


yawn you are definitely a poor troll. stopped reading after the murder and jihadist terror bit. You're just another useless troll who comes up with the same old debunked stories. You were not the first troll to come up with that. Ibn hazm smashed your nonsense long time ago.

i will address the jewish tales. Ironic because the jews do not believe jesus was the messiah and yet muslims do. Strange for someone who copied jewish tales. Strange for someone to glorify jewish propohets and jewish women like mary while arabs and jews were fighting each other.

seriously u dumb christian troll. have you got anything orginal? anything?

 

[axmedxajiisback]

- Circling the Ka'ba was a pagan tradition and Muhammad just gave it an Islamic twist
- He banned alcohol but permitted something much worse: murder and jihadist terror
- He banned the burial of girls but said 99% of people in hell will be girls, that husbands can beat disobedient wives, that you can rape girls taken in war, that a woman's testimony is 1/2 of a man's, and many other odious things
- He broke apart Arab tribal customs to unite them in his cause of jihad and conquest. How did that work out for the Arab world?
- He held slaves and traded them for Muslim slaves. Compare this to 20th century Americans that fought a giant civil war to eradicate among other things, slavery, not trade other people into slavery.
- Abu Sufyan was a fucking idiot. Not sure if that's a good way to judge things

The prophet memorized 7th century Jewish tales and gave them an Islamic twist. You do know that the story of Noah isn't real, right? There is no historical record of a global flood and an ark big enough to house every living thing. Also, you do know that the entire Christian story of creation is a joke, right? That god created a man and then from his rib a woman?

yawn you are definitely a poor troll. stopped reading after the murder and jihadist terror bit. You're just another useless troll who comes up with the same old debunked stories. You were not the first troll to come up with that. Ibn hazm smashed your nonsense long time ago.

i will address the jewish tales. Ironic because the jews do not believe jesus was the messiah and yet muslims do. Strange for someone who copied jewish tales. Strange for someone to glorify jewish propohets and jewish women like mary while arabs and jews were fighting each other.

seriously u dumb christian troll. have you got anything orginal? anything?[/QUOTE]
You stopped reading at terror/jihad bit but are talking about the Jewish tales? hmm.. Also stop saying yawn. It's so childish and pathetic. You aren't yawning because you are frantically typing and trying to defend the indefensible.

 

[axmedxajiisback]

- Circling the Ka'ba was a pagan tradition and Muhammad just gave it an Islamic twist
- He banned alcohol but permitted something much worse: murder and jihadist terror
- He banned the burial of girls but said 99% of people in hell will be girls, that husbands can beat disobedient wives, that you can rape girls taken in war, that a woman's testimony is 1/2 of a man's, and many other odious things
- He broke apart Arab tribal customs to unite them in his cause of jihad and conquest. How did that work out for the Arab world?
- He held slaves and traded them for Muslim slaves. Compare this to 20th century Americans that fought a giant civil war to eradicate among other things, slavery, not trade other people into slavery.
- Abu Sufyan was a fucking idiot. Not sure if that's a good way to judge things

The prophet memorized 7th century Jewish tales and gave them an Islamic twist. You do know that the story of Noah isn't real, right? There is no historical record of a global flood and an ark big enough to house every living thing. Also, you do know that the entire Christian story of creation is a joke, right? That god created a man and then from his rib a woman?

yawn you are definitely a poor troll. stopped reading after the murder and jihadist terror bit. You're just another useless troll who comes up with the same old debunked stories. You were not the first troll to come up with that. Ibn hazm smashed your nonsense long time ago.

i will address the jewish tales. Ironic because the jews do not believe jesus was the messiah and yet muslims do. Strange for someone who copied jewish tales. Strange for someone to glorify jewish propohets and jewish women like mary while arabs and jews were fighting each other.

seriously u dumb christian troll. have you got anything orginal? anything?[/QUOTE]

How do you justify the fact that Muhammad traded slaves he held (wtf prophet) for Muslim slaves while Americans in the 1800s (filthy infidels) made it law to prohibit people from taking other people as slaves? Why would non-Muslims have such high moral ground to stand on?

 

[Dino]

yawn you are definitely a poor troll. stopped reading after the murder and jihadist terror bit. You're just another useless troll who comes up with the same old debunked stories. You were not the first troll to come up with that. Ibn hazm smashed your nonsense long time ago.

i will address the jewish tales. Ironic because the jews do not believe jesus was the messiah and yet muslims do. Strange for someone who copied jewish tales. Strange for someone to glorify jewish propohets and jewish women like mary while arabs and jews were fighting each other.

seriously u dumb christian troll. have you got anything orginal? anything?

How do you justify the fact that Muhammad traded slaves he held (wtf prophet) for Muslim slaves while Americans in the 1800s (filthy infidels) made it law to prohibit people from taking other people as slaves? Why would non-Muslims have such high moral ground to stand on?[/QUOTE]


yawn. freeing slaves is one of the best things islam has introduced into arabia. The first caliph has freed slaves left right and centre. Don't compare your negro slavehood system to that existed back in arabia.

In america slaves were beaten like dogs. In islam slaves like tariq ibn ziyad became generals of armies. Baibars who destroyed the mongols was a former slave. So dumb troll go troll somewhere else

 

[axmedxajiisback]

In america slaves were beaten like dogs. In islam slaves like tariq ibn ziyad became generals of armies. Baibars who destroyed the mongols was a former slave. So dumb troll go troll somewhere else[/QUOTE]

Oh my god! This is gold. So Islam is not so bad because Arab SLAVES were treated better? Oh my fucking god. Any my post was about prohibiting the institution of slavery, not "freeing" people so long as they help spread your political ideology and leaving others in slavery because they weren't Muslim.

 

[Dino]

In america slaves were beaten like dogs. In islam slaves like tariq ibn ziyad became generals of armies. Baibars who destroyed the mongols was a former slave. So dumb troll go troll somewhere else

Oh my god! This is gold. So Islam is not so bad because Arab SLAVES were treated better? Oh my fucking god. Any my post was about prohibiting the institution of slavery, not "freeing" people so long as they help spread your political ideology.[/QUOTE]

don't be so dramatic troll. your first stupidity was to think islam encourages slavery when it encourages people to free slaves.

your next stupdity was to think slavery that existed during early part of islam is anything similar to the beatdown in america.

when you can find me a tariq ibn ziyad from amongst your midst come back to me u dumb uneducated christian troll

 

[axmedxajiisback]

Oh my god! This is gold. So Islam is not so bad because Arab SLAVES were treated better? Oh my fucking god. Any my post was about prohibiting the institution of slavery, not "freeing" people so long as they help spread your political ideology.

don't be so dramatic troll. your first stupidity was to think islam encourages slavery when it encourages people to free slaves.

your next stupdity was to think slavery that existed during early part of islam is anything similar to the beatdown in america.

when you can find me a tariq ibn ziyad from amongst your midst come back to me u dumb uneducated christian troll[/QUOTE]

Islam encourages freeing Muslim slaves and trading non-Muslim slaves for Muslim slaves. It doesn't prohibit taking other human beings as slaves.
Slavery is slavery. No slave consents to being owned by someone else. That's pathetic and miserable to think Arab slaves were better off.
Slavery that existed in Arabia was the same as in America: people were owned by other people and they worked for those people, without pay for their entire lives. The beatdown? You're a Somali (black) who is has an Arab with a shit-eater grin on his avatar, and who is trying to justify and downplay Arab slavery. Arabs should give you a beatdown.

 

[Paladin]

Its not what it looks like..

abaayo u can't just do that. State ur faith m8.

As for the Aisha discussion, wait until after Ramadan. warya @AussieHustler spokesman of the gaal convention check ur people out, I though u were planning to hold off on debates until after Ramadan.

We r not bothered for this right now, if u want the opinions of the muslims on this forum just search Aisha on the forum. There have been plenty of threads on this.

 

[axmedxajiisback]

abaayo u can't just do that. State ur faith m8.

As for the Aisha discussion, wait until after Ramadan. warya @AussieHustler spokesman of the gaal convention check ur people out, I though u were planning to hold off on debates until after Ramadan.View attachment 20382

We r not bothered for this right now, if u want the opinions of the muslims on this forum just search Aisha on the forum. There have been plenty of threads on this.

Theres no point in waiting until after Ramadan. The facts are the facts even during Ramadan. I ask for an explanation because I know there are no good explanations.