Myths of different peoples origin

[Apollo]

@The alchemist

I think if they ever dig up and sequence pastoralist remains from the same period but who used to live in either Djibouti, Far-Eastern Ethiopia or North-Central Somalia, they will most likely be high in proto-Egyptian and Nilote, but low in HOA hunter-gatherer (even much lower than modern Somalis). This possibly explains the PCA plotting oddity of Somalis vs all other Horners.

I think they have identified some old sites in Djibouti. Hopefully those will be sequenced in the 2020s decade. As for those Bay HGs, hoping it will happen in the next two years.

 

[reer]

@The alchemist

I think if they ever dig up and sequence pastoralist remains from the same period but who used to live in either Djibouti, Far-Eastern Ethiopia or North-Central Somalia, they will most likely be high in proto-Egyptian and Nilote, but low in HOA hunter-gatherer (even much lower than modern Somalis). This possibly explains the PCA oddity of Somalis vs all other Horners.

I think they have identified some old sites in Djibouti. Hopefully those will be sequenced in the 2020s decade. As for those Bay HGs, hoping it will happen in the next two years.

what is the origin of somalis 2k years ago and before? when did we appear as an ethnic group.

 

[Apollo]

what is the origin of somalis 2k years ago and before? when did we appear as an ethnic group.

We need more Ancient DNA remains from the Eastern Horn tested to know the full picture. We currently only got mainly stuff from Ethiopia and a lot from Kenya which hint at Cushites may have been a few different groups with slightly different autosomal ratios/patterns.

 

[reer]

We need more Ancient DNA remains from the Eastern Horn tested to know the full picture. We currently only got mainly stuff from Ethiopia and a lot from Kenya which hint at Cushites may have been a few different groups with slightly different autosomal ratios/patterns.

who were the macrobians? were they proto somalis?

 

[Apollo]

who were the macrobians? were they proto somalis?

Herodotus wasn't specific, he labelled huge areas by the same name. Only the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea (much later material) is an Ancient Greco-Roman book mentioning the Horn more precisely.

 

[Shimbiris]

We need more Ancient DNA remains from the Eastern Horn tested to know the full picture. We currently only got mainly stuff from Ethiopia and a lot from Kenya which hint and Cushites may have been a few different groups with slightly different autosomal ratios/patterns.

Wallahi, this straight-up confused me when it became apparent. The linguistics of the Cushitic languages would really make you think otherwise. It always seemed so neat to think there was just some "Proto-Agaw-East-South" group who ran into the Horn around 3000 BCE when we start seeing all the rock-art, rock-carvings, burial mounds and cairns, stelae and evidence of people who keep cattle, goats, sheep and dogs. And that they just further diversified in the Horn with Agaws staying put around the North-Central Highlands, East-South people went more south of them until they broke off with easterners partly remaining put and partly going east into areas like Somaliweyn while South Cushites went south and south until those ninjas hit up even South-Africa. But now it's looking like Cushites may very well have even entered the horn in successive waves. Yaab.

 

[greyhound stone]

Wallahi, this straight-up confused me when it became apparent. The linguistics of the Cushitic languages would really make you think otherwise. It always seemed so neat to think there was just some "Proto-Agaw-East-South" group who ran into the Horn around 3000 BCE when we start seeing all the rock-art, rock-carvings, burial mounds and cairns, stelae and evidence of people who keep cattle, goats, sheep and dogs. And that they just further diversified in the Horn with Agaws staying put around the North-Central Highlands, East-South people went more south of them until they broke off with easterners partly remaining put and partly going east into areas like Somaliweyn while South Cushites went south and south until those ninjas hit up even South-Africa. But now it's looking like Cushites may very well have even entered the horn in successive waves. Yaab.

So where did cushites migrate from North East Africa?possibly

 

[Shimbiris]

So where did cushites migrate from North East Africa?possibly

The Proto-Cushitic urheimat would have most likely been the lands inhabited by the Bejas historically:

So basically southeast Egypt, northeastern Sudan and northern Eritrea. Most likely did also have a presence along the Nile as well from what we can tell.

 

[AbdiS]

The idea of this Irir character existing is fanciful at best. He (apparently) gave birth to all Somalis, except for the Daroods, who are mostly native Cushites.

We all know why this fictitious character was created, and it's origins and oral history (being only brought up in recent history) is even more of a hogwash than the Darood-banu-Hashumite business.

 

[libaaxad]

apart from irir, do dir believe they came from something else?

 

[Metal Magician]

Romans hailed from Remus & Romulus, while Greeks hailed from Graecus (according to Roman mythology), the Greeks originally called themselves Achaeans (Achaeus),Agrives (Argus), Ionians (Ion), Dorins (Dorus), Hellenes (Hellen-mythological figure father of most greek heroes) and so on and so on

 

[Shimbiris]

It exist in Southern Europeans. This guy is full-blood Italian:

Name: Michele Salvemini (Caparezza artist name).

From Southern Italy, I see. Probably his minor Maghrebi ancestry showing itself?

 

[Apollo]

From Southern Italy, I see. Probably his minor Maghrebi ancestry showing itself?

Lol, yeah, Southern Italians look more like Levantines than like North Europeans. Most of their darkness comes from Neolithic Levantine farmers having moved there rather than from the Middle Age Islamic Empire conquests.

 

[Shimbiris]

Lol, yeah, Southern Italians look more like Levantines than like North Europeans. Most of their darkness comes from Neolithic Levantine farmers having moved there rather than from the Middle Age Islamic Empire conquests.

Well, they also have A LOT of post-Neolithic admixture from Greece and the Levant as we have recently found out through that Roman study and kinda knew through modern samples long before that. In terms of auDNA and Haplogroups these guys and frankly all Italians from north to south (becomes lower the more north you go) have a shit load of MENA ancestry mainly through Greece and the Levant. In fact, a big portion of Southern Italy in particular used to be Greek speaking for centuries. The Romans called it "Magna Graecia" and it was by far one of the most successful pre-modern colonizations ever seen based on the genetic impact. North-Central Europeans are almost entirely just a "Yamnaya + Anatolian Neolithic + WHG" mix on a basal level but Greeks and Italians break this by having significant Iran-Neolithic, Natufian and extra-CHG (Iran-Chalcolithic type ancestry, basically) on-top of an already Anatolian Neolithic rich farmer base because they were heavily influenced by the post Neolithic Middle-East.

 

[Apollo]

@Shimbiris

Yeah, agreed on that, but my point was that it doesn't come from the (relatively recent) Moors which is what many people think. They have looked that pseudo-Arab since Roman times.

 

[The alchemist]

Well, they also have A LOT of post-Neolithic admixture from Greece and the Levant as we have recently found out through that Roman study and kinda knew through modern samples long before that. In terms of auDNA and Haplogroups these guys and frankly all Italians from north to south (becomes lower the more north you go) have a shit load of MENA ancestry mainly through Greece and the Levant. In fact, a big portion of Southern Italy in particular used to be Greek speaking for centuries. The Romans called it "Magna Graecia" and it was by far one of the most successful pre-modern colonizations ever seen based on the genetic impact. North-Central Europeans are almost entirely just a "Yamnaya + Anatolian Neolithic + WHG" mix on a basal level but Greeks and Italians break this by having significant Iran-Neolithic, Natufian and extra-CHG (Iran-Chalcolithic type ancestry, basically) on-top of an already Anatolian Neolithic rich farmer base because they were heavily influenced by the post Neolithic Middle-East.

The Romans were a bit Near Eastern shifted than today's Italians, right?

@Shimbiris

Yeah, agreed on that, but my point was that it doesn't come from the (relatively recent) Moors which is what many people think. They have looked that pseudo-Arab since Roman times.

Dude, that Eurogenes blog removed the samples. Somebody who downloaded the lists of cords needs to share it. Lol

 

[Apollo]

Dude, that Eurogenes blog removed the samples. Somebody who downloaded the lists of cords needs to share it. Lol

Say what? I thought the guy was super professional. Didn't strike me as a nationalist who would get butthurt over ancient results. He's a Polish Australian.

 

[The alchemist]

Say what? I thought the guy was super professional. Didn't strike me as a nationalist who would get butthurt over ancient results. He's a Polish Australian.

So he had issues?

Who's going to convert the genotype data from published studies now? I was looking forward to those Nubian samples.

 

[Apollo]

@The alchemist

There are these two nerdy Somalis who know more about this stuff than I do. One goes by the name blackflash16 and the other Mnemonics. I think the former is actually a professional in this field and the other one is a genetics student in uni.

 

[The alchemist]

@The alchemist

There are these two nerdy Somalis who know more about this stuff than I do. One goes by the name blackflash16 and the other Mnemonics. I think the former is actually a professional in this field and the other one is a genetics student in uni.

Yeah, surely some of those guys have the right tools to do the same service as that Polish guy.