Myths of different peoples origin

[Sophisticate]

Marehan DNA also matches Al Kuwayni or Sheekhaal reeer Aw Khutub. REER aw Khutub and Marehan both claim to be from Harar and abtirsi is reer Abadir Muse WarWaa'Jecle.

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[Pioneer]

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DNA has debunked so many myths about Somali Clan identity. The best is yet to come as more
Somali Clans get Big Y DNA tested.

 

[Sophisticate]

DNA has debunked so many myths about Somali Clan identity. The best is yet to come as more
Somali Clans get Big Y DNA tested.

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[Pioneer]

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[Sophisticate]

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[Mujahid Nur Marehan]

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Al Kuwayni or reer AW Khutub Sheekhaal are the biggest sub clan of Sekhaal and they are the closest match to Marehan. Here is the proof on family tree DNA.

 

[Sophisticate]

Al Kuwayni or reer AW Khutub Sheekhaal are the biggest sub clan of Sekhaal and they are the closest match to Marehan. Here is the proof on family tree DNA.

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[Mujahid Nur Marehan]

You guys are also related to Garre.

Our Marehan STR'S are closer to Aw Khutub Sheekhaal than they are to Garre, so we are closer related to Sheekhaal.

 

[Sophisticate]

Our Marehan STR'S are closer to Aw Khutub Sheekhaal than they are to Garre, so we are closer related to Sheekhaal.

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[Apollo]

@Mujahid Nur Marehan

He can be an outlier. We need at least 4 unrelated (not recently) people from the same sub-clan to see whether there is a pattern or not.

 

[Mujahid Nur Marehan]

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[Apollo]

I am looking forward to where @Mujahid Nur Marehan will land on the Y tree, the biggest Marehan sub-clan Reer Diini.

 

[Mujahid Nur Marehan]

I am looking forward to where @Mujahid Nur Marehan will land on the Y tree, the biggest Marehan sub-clan Reer Diini.

I hope I land in the Somali section other wise I will be disappointed.

 

[Apollo]

I hope I land in the Somali section other wise I will be disappointed.

That's almost certainly going to happen. Just to which of the current sub-sub-groups you will be closer to will be the most interesting.

 

[The alchemist]

No. This is basically what Somalis are as far as we can so far tell:



Tl;dr: Neolithic Sudanese + Neolithic North-African mixes who migrated into the Horn then got some South-Arabian around 2,500-3,000 years ago and also mixed a bit with native Horn Hunter-Gatherers when they got to the Horn. That's almost all Cushitic-Ethiosemitic Horners in a nutshell. It's mainly just the percentages of each ancestry component that differ like Tigrays obviously having way more (20-30%) of the South-Arabian than Somalis (1-10%).



The gist I got from the paper's samples on ancient Romans and the paper itself is this:

• The pre-Latin people Copper-Age people were basically like Sardinians (heavily Anatolian Neolithic with notable WHG)
• Early Latini tribes people who encroached on the prior people were heavily Anatolian Neolithic with a lot of steppe and would have clustered around where North-Italians do. Intermediates between the Middle-East and North-Central Europe but more biased toward North-Central Europe (60-40 or 70-30). I ran the samples myself though and their ME shift seems entirely Anatolian Farmer. They do not have Greek/Levantine (East-Med) admixture. However, there are two samples from their time who are heavily East-Med admixed like later Imperial samples so the East-Med admixture was starting to show up even back then around Rome.
• We only have two "Republican" era samples in truth and they are both totally different despite being from the same site and time period. One looks heavily East-Med admixed like later Imperial era samples and one looks pretty much like the old Latini tribes people.
• Imperial era Romans seem uniformly heavily East-Med admixed with lots of ancestry from Greece and the Levant and lots of J and E lineages too. What I described with the Latini tribes people's shift flips and it's more like a 60-40 or above shift toward the Middle-East now.

This guy summarizes it rather well:

Basically Romans started out like Sardinians then North Italian-like, then by late Republican Era and early Imperial Era Magna Graecians and then the Eastern provinces drastically changed the demographics.

And I have those samples here with all the other ancient Italian samples:

Link

Dunno why Davidski would delete them if he apparently did.

Thanks. You mentioned Somalis have 1-10% South-Arabian. I'd like to know the nature of this, was it an Ethiosemitic introduction, medieval, maybe even seemingly Sabean people that came to our shores, or a more ancient component that came with the North African one that the program fails to distinguish from possible later minor influences accurately or just individuals that mixed with Yemenites more recently since the amount fluctuates from individual to individual.

 

[Sheikh Kulkuli]

Somalis hail from Saamale.

Russians, Poles and Czechs hail from three brothers (the Russians from Rus, the Poles from Lech and the Czechs from Chech).

What other examples do we have of peoples origin?

I am referring to myths and legends.

Amhara descended from Solomon and Queen of Sheba.
Surely if anyone was to claim royalty it would be Tigrayans because they are founders of Axum and Abysinian empire.
Just imagine a straight up negro named Menelik claimming to be of Solimonic ancestry.

 

[Shimbiris]

Thanks. You mentioned Somalis have 1-10% South-Arabian. I'd like to know the nature of this, was it an Ethiosemitic introduction, medieval, maybe even seemingly Sabean people that came to our shores, or a more ancient component that came with the North African one that the program fails to distinguish from possible later minor influences accurately or just individuals that mixed with Yemenites more recently since the amount fluctuates from individual to individual.

It seems Intra-Horn mediated. If you go onto Vahaduo or just use nMonte directly (probably also formal stats) you will notice the models greatly favor modeling Somalis as ancient MENA (i.e. Natufian) + Mota + some other form of Horner like Habeshas, Afars or Oromos over the same model but Yemenis or any sort of Arabian samples or Bronze-Age Levantines over the Horner groups. Also noticed that if you take the least ancient Yemeni admixed individual (SOM15) and use other Somalis to model with that sample as the "base" they all fit quite well as mixes between that sample and Oromos in particular.

This leads me to believe Somalis acquired this admixture through other Horners. The exact means is uncertain but there seem to have been internal migrations and intermixtures within the Horn over the last 3,000 years that brought this ancestry and probably also some Mota-related ancestry to Somalis.

 

[The alchemist]

It seems Intra-Horn mediated. If you go onto Vahaduo or just use nMonte directly (probably also formal stats) you will notice the models greatly favor modeling Somalis as ancient MENA (i.e. Natufian) + Mota + some other form of Horner like Habeshas, Afars or Oromos over the same model but Yemenis or any sort of Arabian samples or Bronze-Age Levantines over the Horner groups. Also noticed that if you take the least ancient Yemeni admixed individual (SOM15) and use other Somalis to model with that sample as the "base" they all fit quite well as mixes between that sample and Oromos in particular.

This leads me to believe Somalis acquired this admixture through other Horners. The exact means is uncertain but there seem to have been internal migrations and intermixtures within the Horn over the last 3,000 years that brought this ancestry and probably also some Mota-related ancestry to Somalis.

It could be the case. It is hard to make conclusive statements with confidence when we know those tools have a hard time ascertaining Somali with extra recent Yemeni stuff from Habashi ancestry -- controlling for factors is not always optimal in this particular case.

 

[Shimbiris]

It could be the case. It is hard to make conclusive statements with confidence when we know those tools have a hard time ascertaining Somali with extra recent Yemeni stuff from Habashi ancestry -- controlling for factors is not always optimal in this particular case.

It makes more historical sense and sense with uniparentals, in my opinion. But also, I hear you but I don't think the software is as dubious as one might think. It can pretty easily tell, for example, that the admixture in Somalis and other Horners is South-Arabian ("Yemeni") as opposed to Saudi, or Beoduin-B or Jordanian Bronze-Age and if it can differentiate such close populations I think it says something that it immediately removes all Yemeni-related ancestry in Somalis if you add Oromos or Amharas or Afars but still keeps the more ancient MENA, Dinka and even some of the Mota-related stuff intact.

 

[The alchemist]

It makes more historical sense and sense with uniparentals, in my opinion. But also, I hear you but I don't think the software is as dubious as one might think. It can pretty easily tell, for example, that the admixture in Somalis and other Horners is South-Arabian ("Yemeni") as opposed to Saudi, or Beoduin-B or Jordanian Bronze-Age and if it can differentiate such close populations I think it says something that it immediately removes all Yemeni-related ancestry in Somalis if you add Oromos or Amharas or Afars but still keeps the more ancient MENA, Dinka and even some of the Mota-related stuff intact.

What you say can only be partially correct. If I pick any random Habashi/Afar/Oromo population and Somali and include Yemeni also in the source and target myself, a Somali with some recent Yemeni ancestry, the calculator will automatically shift toward the Ethiopian populations and regard the Somali ancestry as lesser. We can be wrong in assuming the calculator is correct in discerning all backgrounds in equal regards.

One fun illustration is if I overfit and only use Ethiopian populations without any Arab or Somali, that will give me a closer fit than Somali samples, adding all Yemeni/Saudi samples. That is, Vahaduo will deem it closer to my ancestry than anything regarding Somali+Yemen. Granted, the third factor at play is, namely, that my ¼ Yemeni ancestry carried some Ethiopian-like (1/4 of that 25%), which undoubtedly is at play of skewing things further.