Nilote/East African and Natufian/MENA

[Apollo]

Natufian were really strange people. They lived sedentary even before the introduction of agriculture. They had the custom of evulsing the maxillary central incisors (something they did with their teeth) similar to the Iberomaurusian and Capsian cultures in North Africa. That tells us they were mobile also.

Ancient Moroccan skulls that have been tested were genetically close to the Natufians, but a bit more African as expected by geography:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taforalt#Ancient_DNA

The Taforalt guys also had the same paternal haplogroup as Somalis.

 

[The alchemist]

Ancient Moroccan skulls that have been tested were genetically close to the Natufians, but a bit more African as expected by geography:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taforalt#Ancient_DNA

The Taforalt guys also had the same paternal haplogroup as Somalis.

That is actually very cool. The bones of the Taforalt were dated several thousand years before the Natufian, which means that if the Maghreb was the center of evolution for the Natufian-related ancestry, that could only be possible if the African admixture happened after the population ancestral to the Natufian left for the Levant. Or it could be that this admixture event was a locally-confined phenomenon at Taforalt.

They also found out that the individuals tested were all related, which points to a population bottleneck. Think of the genetic diversity lost, and the loss or fixed alleles through genetic drift. Those people pre-genetic drift could all have been superhumans. lol

We Somalis are special people, man. I hope we can get some scientist to excavate on our soil so we can find out more about ourselves.

 

[HIGH PRIESTESS]

You mean the ones that used Arab naming titles, wrote their literature/songs in Arabic, used Arabic script and spoke Arabic fluently.

Somalis were heavily Arabised as people from the arrival of Islam to colonisation.

Even during the independence movement, nationalist songs were sung in Arabic and most educated Somalis spoke Arabic fluently.
Barre's nationalist policies allowed for Somalis to get rid of the lingering Arab influence.

God Bless Siyaad Barre and his Anti-Arab Nationalism

 

[The alchemist]

It's not fair to simply call it mixed like the Brazilians or Haitians. We are too ancient to be regarded as a mixed group, and you can't find our ancestors living in the contemporary.

*Dominicans

 

[Cauli]

It's not fair to simply call it mixed like the Brazilians or Haitians. We are too ancient to be regarded as a mixed group, and you can't find our ancestors living in the contemporary.

So the ancient Nilotes do not exist anymore due to admixture? Show us a depiction of the ancient Nilote that didn't mix.

 

[Cauli]

Today's Levantines are actually +8-10% more Sub-Saharan African than the Natufians due to the (mainly African) slave trade in the Middle Ages and Ottoman era. As for their phenotype, the skulls were heavily damaged and they never could make good reconstructions. Also, the field of reconstruction is heavily biased and unreliable (look at how Cheddar man changed from white to black).

You have issues with Black people.

The most official reconstruction of Cheddar man shows he was dark skinned and probably had blue eyes.

 

[Apollo]

You have issues with Black people.

The most official reconstruction of Cheddar man shows he was dark skinned and probably had blue eyes.

First of all, Cheddar man was an indigenous European and not an African.

Secondly, because it's bullshit, skin colour genes differ by race & region, applying modern alleles to an extinct population is bound to be wrong. It was a dumb PR stunt. They even redacted their statements later on.

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...nned-briton-cheddar-man-find-may-not-be-true/

"But one of the geneticists who performed the research says the conclusion is less certain, and according to others we are not even close to knowing the skin colour of any ancient human."

 

[Cauli]

Because it's bullshit, skin colour genes differ by race & region, applying modern alleles to an extinct population is bound to be wrong. It was a dumb PR stunt. They even redacted their statements later on.

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...nned-briton-cheddar-man-find-may-not-be-true/

"But one of the geneticists who performed the research says the conclusion is less certain, and according to others we are not even close to knowing the skin colour of any ancient human."

"But one of the geneticists who performed the research says the conclusion is less certain, and according to others we are not even close to knowing the skin colour of any ancient human."

Who retracted it? Just one of their geneticists?

Cheddar Man being dark skinned isn't an anomaly. Dark skin and blue eyes were very prevalent in pre-agricultural Europe.


Read this:

The Mesolithic La Braña, Loschbour WHGs, the Upper Palaeolithic Villabruna individual, and the Neolithic KO1 individual, which has a genetic makeup of a WHGs [27], had dark skin and blue eyes based on their allelic states at the rs1426654, rs16891982 and rs12913832 SNPs [1,2,16,27]; an observation supported by their high probabilities of blue eye color inferred by Hirisplex in this study. The Upper Paleolithic Bichon from central Europe [15] had likely dark-skin and brown eyes (S1 Table). The dark skin and blue eyes phenotype combination was likely very common among WHGs and it has been inferred for four out of five Mesolithic and Upper Paleolithic individuals in western and central Europe. Moreover, the allelic states at the h-1 defining positions suggest that La Braña, Loschbour and Villabruna carried this haplotype. The haplotype determination was inconclusive for the remaining individuals due to alternative alleles and missing data at informative positions. All individuals from this group were predicted to have a dark hair color, where Loschbour, Villabruna and Bichon probably had black hair, whereas La Braña and KO1 present similar probabilities of having brown or black hair (S1 Table).

Jones ER, Gonzalez-Fortes G, Connell S, Siska V, Eriksson A, Martiniano R, et al. Upper Palaeolithic genomes reveal deep roots of modern Eurasians. Nature communications. 2015;6: 8912. doi:10.1038/ncomms9912



How do you determine skin pigmentation from DNA?
This is the answer:

Eye, hair, and skin color/pigmentation was assessed by screening two sets of pigmentation-associated markers recently validated in present-day human populations [10,12–14]. The probability for certain eye and hair color for each ancient individual was computed using the enhanced version 1.0 Hirisplex Microsoft Excel macro [14], a SNP system originally designed for forensic purposes. We attempted to predict skin pigmentation using the 8plex system described by Hart et al [12], but as previously reported [2,15], the results were inconclusive for ancient samples using this panel. Similar to previous investigations of ancient humans [2,15–17], we provide skin-color predictions based on the genetic variants at the rs16891982 (in the SLC45A2 gene) and rs1426654 (SLC24A5) SNPs. The derived allele at rs1426654 (SLC24A5) has the greatest effect on skin pigmentation among Europeans [18–21]. Moreover, this variant is part of a light skin haplotype termed “C11”, which is defined by a set of 16 SNPs across 78kb within the SLC24A5 gene. In addition to rs1426654, we investigated the nonsynonymous SNP rs16891982 in the SLC45A2 gene, which is a second major-effect pigmentation locus in Europeans [22]. The derived alleles at both rs1426654 and rs16891982 positions are found at extremely high frequencies in present-day European populations (where the former allele is virtually fixed and the latter is ~90%), an observation that has been interpreted as the signature of recent positive selection in Europeans.

Grossman SR, Andersen KG, Shlyakhter I, Tabrizi S, Winnicki S, Yen A, et al. Identifying recent adaptations in large-scale genomic data. Cell. 2013;152: 703–713. doi:10.1016/j.cell.2013.01.035


https://journals.plos.org/plosbiolo...id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.2003703.s013

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

God Bless Siyaad Barre and his Anti-Arab Nationalism

Siyaad barre wasn't anti-Arab at all actually.

He was the very man that got Somalia into the Arab league & made Arabic an official language.

 

[Apollo]

"But one of the geneticists who performed the research says the conclusion is less certain, and according to others we are not even close to knowing the skin colour of any ancient human."

Who retracted it? Just one of their geneticists?

Cheddar Man being dark skinned isn't an anomaly. Dark skin and blue eyes were very prevalent in pre-agricultural Europe.

They don't know all the skin colour alleles out there. There are tons. This is a fact. Only last year did they start finding new skin tone genes in Africans alone, a living population, the same methodology cannot be applied to an EXTINCT population as you cannot run GWAS studies on them.

Cheddar man may have been darker than modern-day Europeans, but I highly doubt he had the colour of Sub-Saharan Africans. That was pure propaganda and a PR stunt, not based on scientific facts. Tens of thousands of years of evolution must have changed him somewhat.

Genetics is still in its infancy and not as predictive of a field as you think.

 

[The alchemist]

So the ancient Nilotes do not exist anymore due to admixture? Show us a depiction of the ancient Nilote that didn't mix.

That's the thing, they don't exist anymore. Your request is not reasonable.

 

[HIGH PRIESTESS]

Siyaad barre wasn't anti-Arab at all actually.

He was the very man that got Somalia into the Arab league & made Arabic an official language.

The League was for political reasons, he knew that his country needed allies in order to survive. Domestically, his policies were very nationalist and he did everything he could to wipe any Arab cultural influence from Somalia. He fought hard to cleanse Somalia from Wahabi/Salafi influence, but unfortunately the civil war undid all of his just work and made things a lot worse.

 

[The alchemist]

The League was for political reasons, he knew that his country needed allies in order to survive. Domestically, his policies were very nationalist and he did everything he could to wipe any Arab cultural influence from Somalia. He fought hard to cleanse Somalia from Wahabi/Salafi influence, but unfortunately the civil war undid all of his just work and made things a lot worse.

I think the anti-Wahabi/Salafi thing came from the Marxist influence.

 

[HIGH PRIESTESS]

I think the anti-Wahabi/Salafi thing came from the Marxist influence.

Can you blame him though? Somali culture today is completely unrecognisable from the time of Siyaad Barre.

 

[The alchemist]

Can you blame him though? Somali culture today is completely unrecognisable from the time of Siyaad Barre.

I actually believe the Marxist elements created more unification and solidarity, which laid the groundwork for the culture to flourish.

 

[HIGH PRIESTESS]

I actually believe the Marxist elements created more unification and solidarity, which laid the groundwork for the culture to flourish.

Siyaad Barre shaped the individualist/tribalist Somali society into one that was collectivist and patriotic. Marxism and socialism strengthened Somali unity and allowed us to create and expand a unified Somali national identity.

 

[Apollo]

The Arab League should be renamed the Afro-Asiatic union and let Ethiopia & Eritrea join, maybe some of the Sahel states with Tuaregs & Chadics as observer states.

Israel though, LOL.

 

[The alchemist]

Siyaad Barre shaped the individualist/tribalist Somali society into one that was collectivist and patriotic. Marxism and socialism strengthened Somali unity and allowed us to create and expand a unified Somali national identity.

Anti-democracy girl, have you lost your mind? Siyaad Barre did many bad things. The only thing I agree on is the strengthening of the cultural identity, don't forget that many people died by his command.

 

[The alchemist]

The Arab League should be renamed the Afro-Asiatic union and let Ethiopia & Eritrea join, maybe some of the Sahel states with Tuaregs & Chadics as observer states.

Israel though, LOL.

That meme got 10/10.

 

[HIGH PRIESTESS]

Anti-democracy girl, have you lost your mind? Siyaad Barre did many bad things. The only thing I agree on is the strengthening of the cultural identity, don't forget that many people died by his command.

Where did you get that conclusion from? I never said I liked all of Barre’s policies. Yes he did bad things and I am not denying that, if he was an angel I would not be writing this in third world London as the daughter of regugees, I would be in my motherland. And I thoroughly agree with you on the point that Barre’s domestic and cultural policies brought about unity and patriotism. He should be praised and exemplified for that, not the other things.