Once upon a time there was a debate between two Muslim scholars at Abbasid caliph's court

[Angelina]

Women ruku' to her husband, did that needed an expert to say it is weak hadith?

Al Bani classified it as Sahih.

The Hadith doesn’t say a woman needs to Ruku, it says if it was halal for a human to bow, it would be a woman to her husband.

Albani weakened some Hadith and made this strong so clearly there are different opinions on what contradicts the Quran. He never saw this Hadith as contradictory.

 

[Aurelian]

Al Bani classified it as Sahih.

The Hadith doesn’t say a woman needs to Ruku, it says if it was halal for a human to bow, it would be a woman to her husband.

Albani weakened some Hadith and made this strong so clearly there are different opinions on what contradicts the Quran. He never saw this Hadith as contradictory.

Well, he said what he said, and probably wrote downs several books explaining his methodology, but no one will say how dare you say that or something like that.

 

[Angelina]

@Aurelian

I don’t think I’m articulating my position properly. What I’m asking is that why is it for at least most of Islamic history, Sahih Bukhari Hadiths have not been questioned only by a very small minority which is why in this day and age to do so puts you in the deviant category.

Clearly the vast majority of scholars didn’t believe any of the Sahih Hadiths contradict the Quran.

 

[Angelina]

Well, he said what he said, and probably wrote downs several books explaining his methodology, but no one will say how dare you say that or something like that.

didn’t understand this part. Are you saying that there has been no push back in terms of questioning? Do you think that’s a good thing or a bad thing?

 

[Aurelian]

@Aurelian

I don’t think I’m articulating my position properly. What I’m asking is that why is it for at least most of Islamic history, Sahih Bukhari Hadiths have not been questioned only by a very small minority which is why in this day and age to do so puts you in the deviant category.

Clearly the vast majority of scholars didn’t believe any of the Sahih Hadiths contradict the Quran.

The scholars were outside the sunni madhab, some were big names in the sunni madhab, but their criticism is mainly for some hadiths that Muslim and Al-Bukhari included in their Sahih.

 

[Ducaalee]

View attachment 344255

At the end Imam Ahmed won and the mutazila are gone

 

[Ducaalee]

@Aurelian

I don’t think I’m articulating my position properly. What I’m asking is that why is it for at least most of Islamic history, Sahih Bukhari Hadiths have not been questioned only by a very small minority which is why in this day and age to do so puts you in the deviant category.

Clearly the vast majority of scholars didn’t believe any of the Sahih Hadiths contradict the Quran.

If you don't know how hadith authentication works or you're clueless about the science of hadith it's better for the people like to keep quiet and let the experts on hadith speak about it.

Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim there's no dispute on their authentication by the experts who studied them which makes them to be the most trusted books after the Quran.

 

[Ducaalee]

Early Islamic history was fascinating and a tad wild.

This is a little out of context but at one point different madhabs used to have their own taraweh and prayers in the Harram and some would take it so far as to not marry from a different madhab lol.

Don’t get me started on some scholars rivalry as well.

Reading about early Muslims has to be one of my favorite past times, especially Islamic empires like the Ummayads and Abbasids. Who needs game of thrones when you can read about their wars and backstabbing.

Abbasids coming to power is where the deviant sects came to existence cuz during the ummayed caliphs period they supported and preserved the religion and fought against deviant groups that went against the principleteachings of Islam

 

[Ducaalee]

What?

One search at the internet I can find hadiths that contradict the Quran, and examples of scholars debating that, for example Abu Alghazali authored a book where he argued that the Quran should has the final saying on making rules and judgments over hadiths, especially with the odd hadiths, on cases that are complicated or ambiguous .

So you're now an expert on Hadith while you don't know Arabic nor can you recite the Fatiha properly but can judge if hadith is right or wrong ??

Find me one hadith that's sahih with authentic chains that contradicts the Quran.

 

[Angelina]

If you don't know how hadith authentication works or you're clueless about the science of hadith it's better for the people like to keep quiet and let the experts on hadith speak about it.

Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim there's no dispute on their authentication by the experts who studied them which makes them to be the most trusted books after the Quran.

Ducaale people like you bark and can’t read. I’m questioning why @Aurelian rejects Hadith, not I.

It is not I that rejects Hadith, so stop being emotional and understand I’m trying to understand Aurelian.

 

[Aurelian]

Ducaale people like you bark and can’t read. I’m questioning why @Aurelian rejects Hadith, not I.

It is not I that rejects Hadith, so stop being emotional and understand I’m trying to understand Aurelian.

Walaal, I don't reject hadiths, but some of them are nonsensical that is it.

 

[Aurelian]

So you're now an expert on Hadith while you don't know Arabic nor can you recite the Fatiha properly

Wow, you really don't know who you are talking to.

Find me one hadith that's sahih with authentic chains that contradicts the Quran.

The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "I have been commanded to fight against the people till they testify La ilaha illAllah (There is no true god except Allah) and that Muhammad (ﷺ) is His slave and Messenger, and to establish As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and to pay Zakat; and if they do this, then their blood and property are secured except by the rights of Islam, and their accountability is left to Allah."

[Al- Bukhari and Muslim].

Surah Yunus​

99. Had your Lord willed, everyone on earth would have believed, all together. Would you compel people to become believers?

Abridged Explanation of the Quran

If your Lord, O Messenger, had willed for everyone on earth to believe, they would have done so.
However, He did not will it to be so for a wise reason.
He misguides whomever He wills through His justice; and He guides whomever He wills through His grace.
You do not have the ability to force people to become believers: their guidance to faith lies only in Allah’s Hands.​

 

[Aurelian]

More on


Be quiet, my daughter. Don't you know that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) had said:" The deceased is punished because of his family's weeping over the death"?

Surah Fatir​

18. No burdened soul can bear the burdens of another.

Another hadith
"Whoever dies while he still has some fasts to make up (of the days of Ramadan), then his heir (any of them) should fast on his behalf.” Agreed upon.
Al-Najjm
39. And that the human being attains only what he strives for.
40. And that his efforts will be witnessed.
41. Then he will be rewarded for it with the fullest reward.

 

[Ducaalee]

Wow, you really don't know who you are talking to.


The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "I have been commanded to fight against the people till they testify La ilaha illAllah (There is no true god except Allah) and that Muhammad (ﷺ) is His slave and Messenger, and to establish As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and to pay Zakat; and if they do this, then their blood and property are secured except by the rights of Islam, and their accountability is left to Allah."

[Al- Bukhari and Muslim].

Surah Yunus​

99. Had your Lord willed, everyone on earth would have believed, all together. Would you compel people to become believers?

Abridged Explanation of the Quran

If your Lord, O Messenger, had willed for everyone on earth to believe, they would have done so.​

However, He did not will it to be so for a wise reason.​

He misguides whomever He wills through His justice; and He guides whomever He wills through His grace.​

You do not have the ability to force people to become believers: their guidance to faith lies only in Allah’s Hands.​

There's no contradiction between the hadith and the aya you just quoted.

As Allah swt guides whomever He wills and Allah swt commanded the prophet to spread his message to the people.

The hadith you brought in doesn't order us Muslims to go after and fight every non muislim until they utter the shahada no but to fight them until they pay their jizya so they're free to practice their beliefs and the hadith also includes those who left the religion and its obligations like the ridda wars that Abu Bakr RA launched against the tribes that refused to pay the zakat and left Islam and the chapter of the hadith you just quoted is called "Chapter on the command to maintain the prescribed prayers and the emphatic prohibition and severe threat for abandoning them"

 

[Ducaalee]

More on


Be quiet, my daughter. Don't you know that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) had said:" The deceased is punished because of his family's weeping over the death"?

Surah Fatir​

18. No burdened soul can bear the burdens of another.

No contradiction as weeping in here is meant by "wailing" which will lead the deceased to get tormented in the grave because of that act done by his loved ones as the prophet ﷺ said: "Two matters are signs of disbelief on the part of those who indulge in them: Defaming and speaking evil of a person's lineage, and wailing over the dead."

Another hadith
"Whoever dies while he still has some fasts to make up (of the days of Ramadan), then his heir (any of them) should fast on his behalf.” Agreed upon.
Al-Najjm
39. And that the human being attains only what he strives for.
40. And that his efforts will be witnessed.
41. Then he will be rewarded for it with the fullest reward.

Again no contradiction as Fasting is one of the main obligations of muslims has to observe.

 

[Basra]

Early Islamic history was fascinating and a tad wild.

This is a little out of context but at one point different madhabs used to have their own taraweh and prayers in the Harram and some would take it so far as to not marry from a different madhab lol.

Don’t get me started on some scholars rivalry as well.

Reading about early Muslims has to be one of my favorite past times, especially Islamic empires like the Ummayads and Abbasids. Who needs game of thrones when you can read about their wars and backstabbing.

We need a scholar to write about the caliphate days and the drama behind the scenes. But then again they did not have letter writing then so where will their sources be derived except recorded hadiths which were scholarly vs lay man writing them

 

[al-Mu'tamid المعتمد]

This one is better. The Mu'tazili doctrine has fallen into the dustbin of history, though unfortunately, it gave rise to the Ash'ari and Maturidi schools.