Parallels between Nagorno-Karabakh and Ogaden?

[ICEcold]

Azerbaijan badly lost the war for the region to Armenia in the 90s. I doubt those alive then could imagine how the situation has now 180°d, and they've got Armenian's ceding land at gunpoint. A good ally in Turkey, and drone warefare, has led to this development.

Imagine a future where this happens in the horn. Would be dope

 

[hopelessMan]

The Turks have always been resourceful, and their history speaks for itself. They conquerred all of Central Asia, present day Turkey from Greeks, and brought Islam to the Balkans, plus they conquerred many people groups in eastern Europe. You can hardly compare them to Somali people who couldn't even defend themselves from the weakest of people, and who are more than happy to brag about fighting poor fellow Somali clans.

Please, let's be real.

Btw: if you gave the Ogaden back to Somalia right now, they would lose it as they're already losing parts of Somalia proper to foreign influence.

 

[Sup]

The Turks have always been resourceful, and their history speaks for itself. They conquerred all of Central Asia, present day Turkey from Greeks, and brought Islam to the Balkans, plus they conquerred many people groups in eastern Europe. You can hardly compare them to Somali people who couldn't even defend themselves from the weakest of people, and who are more than happy to brag about fighting poor fellow Somali clans.

Please, let's be real.

Btw: if you gave the Ogaden back to Somalia right now, they would lose it as they're already losing parts of Somalia proper to foreign influence.

You clearly are not familiar with our history, but do go on. Your ignorant ramble is quite amusing.

 

[Sup]

Azerbaijan badly lost the war for the region to Armenia in the 90s. I doubt those alive then could imagine how the situation has now 180°d, and they've got Armenian's ceding land at gunpoint. A good ally in Turkey, and drone warefare, has led to this development.

Imagine a future where this happens in the horn. Would be dope

This can only happen in two possible scenarios !

1) something catastrophic happens (e.g. WW3) and the powers that be attention are diverted from the Horn of Africa. Hence no repercussions in Somalia regard, if they manage to take Somali Galbeed.

2) Somalia takes Ethiopia place as the west’s “caretaker” of the Horn of Africa. This is unlikely to happen, the only way is if Ethiopia becomes a full member of BRICS, and actively works against the interest of the West.

This cannot happen without the Somali state been revived to it former stature, otherwise it’s all heresy. In saying that, I do hope a war isn’t fought and that the Somali galbeed can be given a right to self determination. Wither that’s with Somalia or as a country of their own.

 

[johnsepei5]

Bro there is no point in Ogaden when we can’t even benefit or bear fruits from the 647km2 vast land that is called Somalia

what could we offer Somalis in Somali region

 

[wheel]

How would it be dope if it happened in the horn, you want ethiopia annexing more land in somalia/eritrea? cause thats the only way i see it playing out as they're the most powerful and by far the biggest player in the region and the gap is only widening.

 

[Samaale55]

International law is the difference, Armenia seized territory outside of their recognized borders. A better comparison would be an Albania-Kosovo scenario following the Yugoslav collapse

 

[Kun_Ciil]

The Turks have always been resourceful, and their history speaks for itself. They conquerred all of Central Asia, present day Turkey from Greeks, and brought Islam to the Balkans, plus they conquerred many people groups in eastern Europe. You can hardly compare them to Somali people who couldn't even defend themselves from the weakest of people, and who are more than happy to brag about fighting poor fellow Somali clans.

Please, let's be real.

Btw: if you gave the Ogaden back to Somalia right now, they would lose it as they're already losing parts of Somalia proper to foreign influence.

Don't know why people qashined your post...guess the truth hurts?

I love my people but I ain't lying to myself...qabiil and disunity has turned us imo into one of the lowest people on earth. A nation that has many potential resources, homogeneous society with same religion/language/ethnicity and yet we have amisom running around our country who are supposedly going to bring us peace and a strong government???? An amisom that includes our two neighbours Kenya and Ethiopia who we have a long bad history with and are forcefully occuping somali lands? Make it make sense because it seems like the biggest charade I've ever seen in my life. Its like India going to Pakistan with a peacekeeping force and saying we are here to bring peace and stability...like seriously bro I don't know what kind of kool-aid they've been giving the somali politicians/elders and common folk because meesha waxa ka socda caadi maba ahaan.

Where are the men? Where are the owners of Somalia? Dalka niman ma joogo miyaa?

 

[Libaax-Joore]

Azerbaijan badly lost the war for the region to Armenia in the 90s. I doubt those alive then could imagine how the situation has now 180°d, and they've got Armenian's ceding land at gunpoint. A good ally in Turkey, and drone warefare, has led to this development.

Imagine a future where this happens in the horn. Would be dope

Not only they lost Nagorno-Karabakh they also lost the land that border Armenia and iran, Nagorno-Karabakh is enclave inside Azerbaijan, the reason Azerbaijan lost to Armenia 1994 Russia was arming them but that all change 2020 Azerbaijan became major oil and natural gas producer that allowed them to buy high tech weapon from Israel and turkey, money rules the world

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Don't know why people qashined your post...guess the truth hurts?

I love my people but I ain't lying to myself...qabiil and disunity has turned us imo into one of the lowest people on earth. A nation that has many potential resources, homogeneous society with same religion/language/ethnicity and yet we have amisom running around our country who are supposedly going to bring us peace and a strong government???? An amisom that includes our two neighbours Kenya and Ethiopia who we have a long bad history with and are forcefully occuping somali lands? Make it make sense because it seems like the biggest charade I've ever seen in my life. Its like India going to Pakistan with a peacekeeping force and saying we are here to bring peace and stability...like seriously bro I don't know what kind of kool-aid they've been giving the somali politicians/elders and common folk because meesha waxa ka socda caadi maba ahaan.

Where are the men? Where are the owners of Somalia? Dalka niman ma joogo miyaa?

Nihilism and despair is a man’s worst enemy. Think of it like this, a unitary Somali power will arise though I don’t know about its ideology but I’m sure it will naturally arise. No in fact it has to, otherwise there won’t be a Somali nation for our descendants to inherit.

the general trend points towards coming unity, there is time enough, the old guard are on their way out, a bit of optimism and suddenly things start to look bright. We have much to do. All of us. In our fields of expertise and knowledge, so we maybe of some help to the nation later.

 

[Kun_Ciil]

@Freudiantard No doubt a Muslim should never lose hope in Allah's help and that's the only thing that makes me think inshallah we will emerge from this. However, Allah also tells us he doesn't change the conditions of a people unless they change themselves. A Muslim shouldn't lose hope in the mercy of Allah, but at the same it isnt nihilistic to point out our faults and problems so we can address what is really wrong with us as a nation.

It's been 34 years since the civil war, and we still haven't looked inwards and sought to remedy our problems. We are more divided divided than ever...hawiye are divided in Xamar, HG are divided in Gobalaha dhexe, MX and OG are divided in Jubbada, Galkacyo has its yearly wars, Isaaq are killing their Muslim/Somali brothers in Sool, MX are looting supposedly government weapons and the constant caano qabiil killings. Oh and lets not forget the oppression of smaller tribes whose blood, wealth and honour is halaal. On top of that we have Alshabaab with their explosions, and a government which is protected by Amisom and given orders from Xalane and its donors.

There is still no xal in sight bro and there won't be as long as we continue to pull the wool over our eyes.

 

[Zak12]

NGL, I feel some sympathy towards Armenians for losing this conflict. Nagorno-Karabkh was demographically, culturally and historically Armenian and the Azeris conquered it and began displacing many Armenians. Ethiopia had done much the same towards Galbeed but thankfully it is still majority Somali

 

[hopelessMan]

You clearly are not familiar with our history, but do go on. Your ignorant ramble is quite amusing.

I am sxb. Please refute any of the points I made. Your average Somali is more than content with pushing fellow Somali clans from grazing lands. That's literally our ambition as people.
We have Kenya and Ethiopia doing whatever they want in our country, two countries that already occupy large sections of our ancestral lands. This should be boiling the blood of all Somalis and it should be the the catalyst they need to unite and drop clan and fight to get their lands.

Here are some basic facts.

Soomaalidu dad dhiig leh ma'aha unless the fight is against fellow Somali clan.
Somaalidu dad qab iyo sharaf leh ma'aha or they wouldn't accept what's being done to them by their biggest enemies.
Soomaalidu dad diin leh ma'aha or they wouldn't butcher each other so much for so long.
These are facts, not things I am making up. Feel free to downvote me because the truth is hard to hear.

 

[Zak12]

who couldn't even defend themselves from the weakest of people,

Who? Somalis utterely karbashed Ethiopia in 2006 and ONLF managed to get a favorable peace treaty with the federal government. Kenya's track record against Somalis is only killing defenseless innocents.

I agree that Somalis are lacking in unity and prefer fighting each other but if your assessment that Somalis are weak was true, then are our lands should have long since been conquered by others but it has not. We still inhabit the largest territory out of any ethnic group in Africa and we hold our own well against entire ethnic groups as seen with the Afar-Issa conflict. Somalis are without a doubt the strongest people in East Africa not via military hardware or numbers but in sheer will and determination.

 

[hopelessMan]

Don't know why people qashined your post...guess the truth hurts?

I love my people but I ain't lying to myself...qabiil and disunity has turned us imo into one of the lowest people on earth. A nation that has many potential resources, homogeneous society with same religion/language/ethnicity and yet we have amisom running around our country who are supposedly going to bring us peace and a strong government???? An amisom that includes our two neighbours Kenya and Ethiopia who we have a long bad history with and are forcefully occuping somali lands? Make it make sense because it seems like the biggest charade I've ever seen in my life. Its like India going to Pakistan with a peacekeeping force and saying we are here to bring peace and stability...like seriously bro I don't know what kind of kool-aid they've been giving the somali politicians/elders and common folk because meesha waxa ka socda caadi maba ahaan.

Where are the men? Where are the owners of Somalia? Dalka niman ma joogo miyaa?

spot on bro/sis.
Everything that's wrong with Somalia today can be fixed overnight. Drop clan and accept a rule of law. 1.5 billion Indians have one leader, 1.4 billion chinese people have one leader, meanwhile approximately 20 million Somali people have:

Omar Geele
Muse BIhi
Firdhiye
Deni
Qoorqor
Guudlaawe
HSM
Hamze Barre
Ahmed Madobe
Laftagareen

That's 10 leaders lol, it's a fucking joke, in fact you couldn't even make it up as a joke.

and also, isn't it insane how the Somalis who are under occupation in Ogaden and NFD obey their one leader? The reason is because their leaders are non Somalis and Somali people only know how to fight other Somalis, otherwise, we're bunch of cowards.

 

[hopelessMan]

Who? Somalis utterely karbashed Ethiopia in 2006 and ONLF managed to get a favorable peace treaty with the federal government. Kenya's track record against Somalis is only killing defenseless innocents.

I agree that Somalis are lacking in unity and prefer fighting each other but if your assessment that Somalis are weak was true, then are our lands should have long since been conquered by others but it has not. We still inhabit the largest territory out of any ethnic group in Africa and we hold our own well against entire ethnic groups as seen with the Afar-Issa conflict. Somalis are without a doubt the strongest people in East Africa not via military hardware or numbers but in sheer will and determination.

The land has already been conquered sxb.

 

[Zak12]

The land has already been conquered sxb.

It was given to them by the British. Name me any battles or wars the Ethiopians or Kenyans fought that allowed them to annex our lands. You are giving our neighbors too much credit.

Why just a century ago, Somalis were pushing deep into East Africa beating up many Bantu tribes and would have been the masters of East Africa without British intervention.

 

[hopelessMan]

It was given to them by the British. Name me any battles or wars the Ethiopians or Kenyans fought that allowed them to annex our lands. You are giving our neighbors too much credit.

Why just a century ago, Somalis were pushing deep into East Africa beating up many Bantu tribes and would have been the masters of East Africa without British intervention.

You're thinking like a typical Somali. It's not important how you lose, if you lose you lose.
I don't think America would care to stop us if we united and occupied the Ogaden, something which we can do by the way but how can we do it when every clan is at war with 10 other clans for 34 years? If you allow others to abuse you and mistreat you, it's your fault for allowing it.

 

[Zak12]

If you allow others to abuse you and mistreat you, it's your fault for allowing it.

We don't allow it. You mysteriously ignored the fact that Somalis created one of the oldest and longest insurgency groups in Ethiopia, the WSLF/ONLF. Thousands of Somalis lost their life fighting against Ethiopia yet somehow Somalis are cowards according to you. The only cowards are official Somali leaders who refuse to support these rebels.

 

[Kun_Ciil]

We don't allow it. You mysteriously ignored the fact that Somalis created one of the oldest and longest insurgency groups in Ethiopia, the WSLF/ONLF. Thousands of Somalis lost their life fighting against Ethiopia yet somehow Somalis are cowards according to you. The only cowards are official Somali leaders who refuse to support these rebels.

Wixi shalay dhacay naga daaf. Maanta xaladu halkuu mara?

We wuz kings and sh1t ain't going to change things on the ground.