The Low iq uncles in this thread are killing me. Why is my ethnicity so hopeless
PL Neutral Politics Needs To Change
- Thread starter DR OSMAN
- Start date
@Abdisamad calm down brother puntites are of various poliical flavor some r PL first to undo the economic marginalization since the 60s and the constant clan genocides from govt or rebel groups. Its them who refuse a fair deal that the somali republic will focus on PL development who sacrificed alot to only get killed or looted since the 1960s.
me and @MuseGuud understand the PL ppl also house unionists even tho me and muse disagree strongly with them because they don't benefit but only gain losses but we still respect their views and even will meet them half way on a two system one somalia model so your satisfied while we are not stopped by a federal authority full of qabyalad and hate for our well being.
We will accept that PL remains commited to the federal vision as long as the south cleans up its mess, prove their politics is better for Somalis thru observable eyes locally and foreign. We demand rule of law and institutions r world class and recognized by their locals and foreigners, we demand to see not only see security but their ppl socio economics changing from 1 dollar a day to middle income nation. I mean even their hamar locals hate the sfg and join shabab, why r u forcing puntites into it?
why r u being so radical and not seeing your silly unionist crap is being preserved but it comes with checks and balances and clauses.and PL will step away in a 2 system one nation model and give the south a 100 years to prove their shit not just rehash word salad of the syl. During that 100 years we will be independent and conduct federal reviews every 25 years to satisfy your unionist ass over a century which can be extended because I am confident hamar issue won't be resolved for even 500 years.
me and @MuseGuud understand the PL ppl also house unionists even tho me and muse disagree strongly with them because they don't benefit but only gain losses but we still respect their views and even will meet them half way on a two system one somalia model so your satisfied while we are not stopped by a federal authority full of qabyalad and hate for our well being.
We will accept that PL remains commited to the federal vision as long as the south cleans up its mess, prove their politics is better for Somalis thru observable eyes locally and foreign. We demand rule of law and institutions r world class and recognized by their locals and foreigners, we demand to see not only see security but their ppl socio economics changing from 1 dollar a day to middle income nation. I mean even their hamar locals hate the sfg and join shabab, why r u forcing puntites into it?
why r u being so radical and not seeing your silly unionist crap is being preserved but it comes with checks and balances and clauses.and PL will step away in a 2 system one nation model and give the south a 100 years to prove their shit not just rehash word salad of the syl. During that 100 years we will be independent and conduct federal reviews every 25 years to satisfy your unionist ass over a century which can be extended because I am confident hamar issue won't be resolved for even 500 years.
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I endorse this message100%, All Puntland wanted for the last 12 years has been it's been it's fair share of foreign aid and to not surrender to the FGS any powers outside of the four mentioned in the constitution. Unfortunately every SFG administration is against this and tries to undermine as much as possible . Whatever agreement PL signs with president. PL president Y will break it and renege hence the never ending loop of PL-SFG conflicts. Only solution for now is One country two systems.
@ DR OSMAN
We have to lot of work to do on sobering up young PLers from this Somalinimo kool-aid they've been drinking.
@Abdisamad please be cautious of political somalinim it's just intended as a social conception in terms of social unity this doesn't mean their is political unity or territorial unity which is where syl fucked up big time they thought they could achieve political and territorial unity thru a shared enemy such as colonials, then when that ended siyad knew he couldn't use that and continued the Ethiopian enemy to unite us, your just doing the same thing and we know where that ended in previous experiments, it doesn't work bro U can't unite Somalis on a common enemy, your really wasting your time and also Somali ppl time.
The idea should be social unity which did exist to some extent as long as their territorial and political aspects were separated, it was when those two dimensions their political and territorial integrity was combined under one state, that when Somalis hated each other, it wasn't due to any foreign interference.
If they didn't that political and territorial unity concept and left somalinimo as a social concept, it would be so strong as a social idea. It's a shame our local leaders and foreign community are trying to resuscitate a project that has been tried, failed, and caused so much harm to the people.
The idea should be social unity which did exist to some extent as long as their territorial and political aspects were separated, it was when those two dimensions their political and territorial integrity was combined under one state, that when Somalis hated each other, it wasn't due to any foreign interference.
If they didn't that political and territorial unity concept and left somalinimo as a social concept, it would be so strong as a social idea. It's a shame our local leaders and foreign community are trying to resuscitate a project that has been tried, failed, and caused so much harm to the people.
Abdisamad
VIP
@DR OSMAN @MuseGuud
The difference between you guys and me is,
You guys are arguing from a place of lack of confidence, hopelessness, fear and mistrust, why your vision doesn't reach beyond a broken up Somalia with a semi independent PL which sustains it's independence from the federal government who are both dependent on international aid, while I argue from a place of hope, confidence, trust and without fear, I trust my fellow Somalis and I am hopeful cooler heads will prevail, I know we can achieve this through hard work and dedication, I'm also confident that Somalia is a rich country full of resources which we can exploit, develop and benefit every Somali citizen, my aim is not only to unite Somalis, my aim is to make Somalia the most developed country in the world, and yes this is possible with Somalia's resources and it's strategic location.. I truly believe this is why we don't understand each other, because my vision and ambitions surpasses your limited confined ambitions and limited visions that doesn't go beyond tribal borders, correct distribution of aid handouts and limited deals to buy outdated USSR era arms from poverty ridden Ethiopia to safeguard plus 100 tribal borders in a balkanized Somalia.
The difference between you guys and me is,
You guys are arguing from a place of lack of confidence, hopelessness, fear and mistrust, why your vision doesn't reach beyond a broken up Somalia with a semi independent PL which sustains it's independence from the federal government who are both dependent on international aid, while I argue from a place of hope, confidence, trust and without fear, I trust my fellow Somalis and I am hopeful cooler heads will prevail, I know we can achieve this through hard work and dedication, I'm also confident that Somalia is a rich country full of resources which we can exploit, develop and benefit every Somali citizen, my aim is not only to unite Somalis, my aim is to make Somalia the most developed country in the world, and yes this is possible with Somalia's resources and it's strategic location.. I truly believe this is why we don't understand each other, because my vision and ambitions surpasses your limited confined ambitions and limited visions that doesn't go beyond tribal borders, correct distribution of aid handouts and limited deals to buy outdated USSR era arms from poverty ridden Ethiopia to safeguard plus 100 tribal borders in a balkanized Somalia.
do you know the amount of qabil/ethnic wars that would start if these people no longer have a higher authority (government) to keep them in check?
A beautiful syl inspired speech which was suitable in the 1960s independence era due to the common enemy uniting them colonials, heck your idea would even work during commy revolution of siyad as he also created a sustainable enemy for you guys to unite on, but those geopolitical winds don't exist today, your idea isn't fit for a post civil war Somalia, state collapse, it's great talking points to children but not to educated people.
Educated people see Somalis are a social unit not a common political or territorial unit and they never were even during the times of adal they all had their separate territories and local rulers, this is the pre colonial reality of the nation. Any system not built to its local reality is only going to fail no matter how sweet foreign ideas look, if it's not built and merged with the historical context, values, belief of the people, it will come crumbling down thru internal conflict as we saw with every govt whether civilian or the commy era.
Theocracy or Islamism won't work either because Ahmed gurey and sayidka even failed even tho both those islamists they united them as a military coalition not having any political or territorial control cause they weren't stupid and knew it would come crumbling down from internal squabbles for power. The only extent Somalis can join Islamic state is thru sending military assistance never ceding territory or political power also this is a reality observed and why no caliphate dared come here.
Even Ahmed gurey n sayid could only get their assistance due to the common enemy approach one time it was habasha the other one was colonial, following in the same footstep of the civilian govt and communist govt, always creating enemies for us because they know their foreign idea won't work.
Why do U choose to ignore practical world examples of gulf states like UAE, Qatar who r tiny city states yet they control large countries who r dysfunctional all because their large countries implemented a system that isn't suitable to their local narrative and serves foreign purposes only. Neo traditionalism is the only way out of this and it can be achieved thru balkanization or highly autonomous state structures, their is no other solution then word salad dreams and extending the pain of the ppl longer.
We can't create n copy other ppl, we tried it, it has always failed. A state has to be created to compliment the local narrative and conditions not look at your neighbours or what other ppl r doing which is what motivates your unionist policy, it has no practicality and U know it deep it down but due to foreign pressure your falling back into the trap of the very same system countless govt attempted.
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@Abdisamad what if all Somalis can't be saved and united into one nation, do U want us to remain stuck where we r lol, why don't U see that's the worst thing you can promote, if your a true unionist U would let the regions who are recovering march on, not hold them to the ankle of one city who clearly doesn't want to move forward, heck if your a true unionist U would know it's actually better for other failed areas to have a model to emulate and heck it's better for the recovered region to focus on himself so he can later come back to help the failed areas.
If we can't unite aan wada dhimano war ma aha, I think U unionist can get smashed by PL first movement in any public debate and U can be shown to be a xaasid wanting recovered areas to die with failed areas. Niyahow ur silly dream of industrialization is impossible, isbaaro ayaa laydin dhigi doona, heck their doing it with aid, U think they won't do it elsewhere? For f*ck sakes they even sell rice bags intended for the poorest in bakaraha, their no humans there, it's time U jump ship and attend a pl first conference.
If we can't unite aan wada dhimano war ma aha, I think U unionist can get smashed by PL first movement in any public debate and U can be shown to be a xaasid wanting recovered areas to die with failed areas. Niyahow ur silly dream of industrialization is impossible, isbaaro ayaa laydin dhigi doona, heck their doing it with aid, U think they won't do it elsewhere? For f*ck sakes they even sell rice bags intended for the poorest in bakaraha, their no humans there, it's time U jump ship and attend a pl first conference.
Dooyo
Inaba Caadi Maaha
Abdisamad
VIP
My ambition surpasses beyond qabil sxb, I'm looking to build an empire that'll dominate African history for the next thousand years, for that I need diversity..
Why should PL (Majerteens) be the special state that has automony. While everyone else should be under Xamar?
Puntland has nothing to become a country, just like any other states it will become a micro nation under foreign influence.
Balkanisation will never happen the international order will not let that happen, otherwise it would've happened decades ago. That Is why the ruling in PL decide to stay in this limbo. It's their only way of governing a state somewhat independently.
Eventually in the coming decades the current world order will fail. If Somalia doesn't unify and industrialised by then. Expect your decendants to get gangraped by Ethiopia and Kenya in a 2 front war.
There is literally no other option.
Puntland has nothing to become a country, just like any other states it will become a micro nation under foreign influence.
Balkanisation will never happen the international order will not let that happen, otherwise it would've happened decades ago. That Is why the ruling in PL decide to stay in this limbo. It's their only way of governing a state somewhat independently.
Eventually in the coming decades the current world order will fail. If Somalia doesn't unify and industrialised by then. Expect your decendants to get gangraped by Ethiopia and Kenya in a 2 front war.
There is literally no other option.
If other federal member states can't or won't manage their internal affairs like education, health, security, Project fulfillment etc and are willing to hand it over to the Xamar, then PL should not expected to act like them, I don't believe in collective punishment. People from the same family can be very different, One can a bum and the other can have aspirations, Is it fair to punish PL for it's success because other states are failing ?. Is it fair to ask PL to give up it's state rights because other states gave it up ? . All the FMS leaders except PL met together in the Dec 2022 NCC meeting and agreed to give up the majority of State powers to the Federal government, They also met in the summer of 2023 and signed more agreements in exchange for a illegal 1-year extension. Those agreements don't concern Puntland at all. PL will remain semi-autonmous and push for Hongkong 99 year deal, marka buuqa naga yareeya.
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Please tell me what success PL has? 400$ gdp per capita. One of the world's poorest countries in the world. You call this success? Tell me how Puntland has managed to become this bastion of civilisation. You are poor and will remain poor until Somalis work together to create a functional state.
Puntland only exists because Xamar doesn't have tbe means to unite the country. As the fgs strengthens it's army PL will lose its automony. Regionalism is only a thing post government collapse. Now a central government is rebuilding it's over for those pushing their little clan enclaves disguised as federal states.
Clans being able to assert automony is just an anomaly. It is not the rule.
Puntland is a micro state just like all others in Somalia, that includes SL with its 7 million. You will just be a dump for 120 million Ethiopians and 60 million Kenyans. If Puntland had a gdp per capita above 1000$ maybe we could talk about graduation to a shithole African nation but you're not even that.
Bro naga daa, I’ve had it with the plastic patriotism and all this whipping up of fervour, we’re more of a threat to oromos than they are to us, right now xamar needs to get back on track and for HSM not to exit the framework that was agreed on, otherwise we will exit this project, you guys are following HSM around like headless chickens, think for yourselves and for the good of all Somalis
Gdp is close to a thousand, we are on our way to economic growth, all while having all of the aid money and investment earmarked for our state be withheld in xamar, Deni for all his shortcomings is smart enough to recognise that
He cannot surrender puntland to xamar without there even being a constitution or rule of law, HSM arms his own subclan and puts them in positions of power, we’re not going back to 91, HSM be damned
Dooyo
Inaba Caadi Maaha
Why did you downvote if you’re a supporter of PL 1st? Wouldn’t this proposed mega Darood state work in your favor?
Somalia has 400$ you mean to tell me puntland is close to a thousand sxb stop the delusions and go fkd section instead of politics. Not a single statistic points to you being above 600$. Ethiopians did the same thing when I grilled them and niggas started making up their own gdp capita. Jokes wlhi
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Read the World Bank Document Somalia poverty profile report from 2017 & 2019.
NE is Puntland & NW is Somaliland
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We’re reaching 1000$ per capita soon, there is safety, business is booming, infrastructure is being built, we haven’t said we will secede so why are you insistent on PL kowtowing to HAG rule from xamar, no way Jose
Why doesn’t madaxweyne Ismail Gulleh dissolve Djibouti and throw himself at the feet of HSM? Listen here. There will be no advancement for Somalia as long as HSM patronises his own clan members and gives them all the major posts in government say for speaker of parliament and prime minister, and refuses to move on with finishing the constitution there has to be one man one vote, rule of law, a constitution, a president held to account by his government and people, meritocracy. And the path decided upon in 2012 is the way to that.
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