Plugged my raw data into Illustrative DNA need help

[Malikfiqi]

My sample seems to be an outlier for the somali samples they have on file, it aligned closest to the somali kenyan sample, but it was still off by alittle bit. I've tried other g25 models i keep getting extra nilotic admixutre, is it the calculators im using or is it right. I am somali kenyan with heavy proto-hawiye admixture so I wouldn't be super suprised if that was the case.

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[Juke]

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[NidarNidar]

My sample seems to be an outlier for the somali samples they have on file, it aligned closest to the somali kenyan sample, but it was still off by alittle bit. I've tried other g25 models i keep getting extra nilotic admixutre, is it the calculators im using or is it right. I am somali kenyan with heavy proto-hawiye admixture so I wouldn't be super suprised if that was the case.

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Remove the unlimited and put 3 as the max.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

My sample seems to be an outlier for the somali samples they have on file, it aligned closest to the somali kenyan sample, but it was still off by alittle bit. I've tried other g25 models i keep getting extra nilotic admixutre, is it the calculators im using or is it right. I am somali kenyan with heavy proto-hawiye admixture so I wouldn't be super suprised if that was the case.

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Wtf is ProtoHawiye admixture hahaha

 

[ICEcold]

Wtf is ProtoHawiye admixture hahaha

Maybe Degodia?

 

[Arabsiyawi]

Maybe Degodia?

Why would degodias be different to their neighboring somali clans

 

[Im_✨]

Protohawiye? Aint that just somali? Im so confused.

 

[Juke]

Wtf is ProtoHawiye admixture hahaha

Protohawiye? Aint that just somali? Im so confused.

In the past colonialists and anthropologists classified other Samaale clans (non-Irir Samaale) as Pre-Hawiye. That's probably what OP meant. Large NFD clans that'd fall under that classification are Degoodia and Garre.

 

[Malikfiqi]

Maybe Degodia?

Degoodia in particular

In the past colonialists and anthropologists classified other Samaale clans (non-Irir Samaale) as Pre-Hawiye. That's probably what OP meant. Large NFD clans that'd fall under that classification are Degoodia and Garre.

yes I meant pre-hawiye

 

[Malikfiqi]

Why would degodias be different to their neighboring somali clans

The pre-hawiye in NFD have been in the region longer. So more time to get admixture with surrounding groups

 

[Malikfiqi]

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where would u recommend I run this. Would I need to convert my data to g25?

 

[Arabsiyawi]

where would u recommend I run this. Would I need to convert my data to g25?

Yup, you can get it directly from illustrativeDNA btw. There's a "download coordinates" tab on the dashboard.

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This is what I get, adding Amhara as an extra because I get 100% Somali

 

[Juke]

where would u recommend I run this. Would I need to convert my data to g25?

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[The alchemist]

@Juke

The Oromo in those NFD samples are overplayed because Oromo compensates for ZAF-related ancestry that they have:

These hunter-gatherer elements get overcompensated by foreign ancestry if one does not control for them. Also, you need to add more Somali samples to the sources because one sample is not a proto-type example that fits every dimension. We are very relatively homogenous but not every non-mixed Somali sample is equidistant, core Somali. There are several dimensional slightly shifted cores that majorly overlap but represent the internal mixing of Somalis and assortments. I added all the samples from the non-average datasheet without two that had more Arabian than the rest, including a few southern non-mixed samples.

Oromos are genetically too close that some of the Somali variations can borrow signatures from Oromo if one uses only one average or one sample.

You have that issue even with my thing:

Some Khoisan-like enriched people were mixed with Somalis in mixed or unmixed form in very minor proportion that some Somalis have it, while others don't. That ancestry is often mistaken as a Mota variation when one sees Oromo pop up in G25 when it is something else.

One recognizes Oromo and real Mota in samples with such ancestry, such as @garangar

By the way, you (if you're still around) don't have typical South Asians but more like people with Iranic with strong South Asian substructure that exist on the gradient.

Even Bowda, who selects for Oromo or Mota actually has no such ancestry but carries ZAF-related stuff:

Remove the ZAF and you have this:

Notice that ZAF always carries a better fit.

Kathar (I don't think he is on the forum anymore) has Mota-related ancestry:

If I add Dinka, the Bantu completely disappears. In fact, whenever you see Kindoki, assume Dinka-related stuff.

Was this entirely from Oromo? Maybe. Maybe not. He could be of substantial 15% Oromo descent, or he could be 5% Oromo yet carry enriched Mota ancestry for some strange reason. Either way, ZAF is not the explanation here. So my point is, that this is not a response that tries to undermine real mixture with Oromos, merely that there is a hidden element that often confuses Oromos for internal Somali ancestry that they got from somewhere else that probably did not look like Mota. I will go as far as to say that is why people previously thought we had Oromo while on other studies it showed a lack of such ancestry. We had very minor but present ghost component that skews these readings.

Still, among those NFD samples, 41S, 52S, and 61S, are substantially Oromo admixed.

This sounds "out there," but I think those early pastoral people had ZAF-related enrichment of a ghost population that is no more than 2-3% but were overrepresented with Mota. I really do think there is an unknown ancestry going on. I also said a long time ago that I don't think those two early Kenyan Pastoralists were Mota mixed. Something else has to be accounted for.

One can convert the Oromo affinity with Ari Blacksmith ancestry for various reasons. That proxy aligns well with the samples that show Mota affinity while the ZAF ones do not. So it cannot be a coincidence or sampling artifact, in my opinion. I think late-stage hunter-gatherers that Somalis and South Cushites (although they clearly had some Mota-related influence and the ZAF stuff with it) encountered were of two clines. One that probably stretched from the southern Somali region in the tropical regions to Kenya (Boni/Aweer people got considerable hunter-gatherer mtDNAs) and one that had a Mota cline. It seems to me that the ones Somalis came into contact with were not the Mota cline but the other one. Somali hunter-gatherers who probably were pushed south before Somalis came could have been majorly Southern African hunter-gatherers-like.

This is not far-fetched. Hunter-gatherers in the region, including Mota, had considerable ZAF elements in them. There was one study showing that hunter-gatherers in Kenya had kept to niches. It is not unusual to find isolated tribes living in their respective sub-regions in tropical zones that could be genetically isolated from each other. Usually, they had small population sizes which explains why we cannot find it in large sums among Somalis.

 

[Malikfiqi]

@Juke

The Oromo in those NFD samples are overplayed because Oromo compensates for ZAF-related ancestry that they have:
View attachment 342181
View attachment 342182

These hunter-gatherer elements get overcompensated by foreign ancestry if one does not control for them. Also, you need to add more Somali samples to the sources because one sample is not a proto-type example that fits every dimension. We are very relatively homogenous but not every non-mixed Somali sample is equidistant, core Somali. There are several dimensional slightly shifted cores that majorly overlap but represent the internal mixing of Somalis and assortments. I added all the samples from the non-average datasheet without two that had more Arabian than the rest, including a few southern non-mixed samples.

Oromos are genetically too close that some of the Somali variations can borrow signatures from Oromo if one uses only one average or one sample.

You have that issue even with my thing:
View attachment 342183

Some Khoisan-like enriched people were mixed with Somalis in mixed or unmixed form in very minor proportion that some Somalis have it, while others don't. That ancestry is often mistaken as a Mota variation when one sees Oromo pop up in G25 when it is something else.

One recognizes Oromo and real Mota in samples with such ancestry, such as @garangar

View attachment 342184
View attachment 342190
By the way, you (if you're still around) don't have typical South Asians but more like people with Iranic with strong South Asian substructure that exist on the gradient.

Even Bowda, who selects for Oromo or Mota actually has no such ancestry but carries ZAF-related stuff:View attachment 342191

Remove the ZAF and you have this:View attachment 342192

Notice that ZAF always carries a better fit.

Kathar (I don't think he is on the forum anymore) has Mota-related ancestry:View attachment 342195
If I add Dinka, the Bantu completely disappears. In fact, whenever you see Kindoki, assume Dinka-related stuff.

Was this entirely from Oromo? Maybe. Maybe not. He could be of substantial 15% Oromo descent, or he could be 5% Oromo yet carry enriched Mota ancestry for some strange reason. Either way, ZAF is not the explanation here. So my point is, that this is not a response that tries to undermine real mixture with Oromos, merely that there is a hidden element that often confuses Oromos for internal Somali ancestry that they got from somewhere else that probably did not look like Mota. I will go as far as to say that is why people previously thought we had Oromo while on other studies it showed a lack of such ancestry. We had very minor but present ghost component that skews these readings.

Still, among those NFD samples, 41S, 52S, and 61S, are substantially Oromo admixed.

This sounds "out there," but I think those early pastoral people had ZAF-related enrichment of a ghost population that is no more than 2-3% but were overrepresented with Mota. I really do think there is an unknown ancestry going on. I also said a long time ago that I don't think those two early Kenyan Pastoralists were Mota mixed. Something else has to be accounted for.

One can convert the Oromo affinity with Ari Blacksmith ancestry for various reasons. That proxy aligns well with the samples that show Mota affinity while the ZAF ones do not. So it cannot be a coincidence or sampling artifact, in my opinion. I think late-stage hunter-gatherers that Somalis and South Cushites (although they clearly had some Mota-related influence and the ZAF stuff with it) encountered were of two clines. One that probably stretched from the southern Somali region in the tropical regions to Kenya (Boni/Aweer people got considerable hunter-gatherer mtDNAs) and one that had a Mota cline. It seems to me that the ones Somalis came into contact with were not the Mota cline but the other one. Somali hunter-gatherers who probably were pushed south before Somalis came could have been majorly Southern African hunter-gatherers-like.

This is not far-fetched. Hunter-gatherers in the region, including Mota, had considerable ZAF elements in them. There was one study showing that hunter-gatherers in Kenya had kept to niches. It is not unusual to find isolated tribes living in their respective sub-regions in tropical zones that could be genetically isolated from each other. Usually, they had small population sizes which explains why we cannot find it in large sums among Somalis.

I ran some g5 models on Vahaduo

I added alot of sources like yemani_mahra, dinka, but it only showed me this.

 

[The alchemist]

I ran some g5 models on Vahaduo View attachment 342408
I added alot of sources like yemani_mahra, dinka, but it only showed me this.

Send me your coordinates. I can run it.

 

[Malikfiqi]

@Juke

The Oromo in those NFD samples are overplayed because Oromo compensates for ZAF-related ancestry that they have:
View attachment 342181
View attachment 342182

These hunter-gatherer elements get overcompensated by foreign ancestry if one does not control for them. Also, you need to add more Somali samples to the sources because one sample is not a proto-type example that fits every dimension. We are very relatively homogenous but not every non-mixed Somali sample is equidistant, core Somali. There are several dimensional slightly shifted cores that majorly overlap but represent the internal mixing of Somalis and assortments. I added all the samples from the non-average datasheet without two that had more Arabian than the rest, including a few southern non-mixed samples.

Oromos are genetically too close that some of the Somali variations can borrow signatures from Oromo if one uses only one average or one sample.

You have that issue even with my thing:
View attachment 342183

Some Khoisan-like enriched people were mixed with Somalis in mixed or unmixed form in very minor proportion that some Somalis have it, while others don't. That ancestry is often mistaken as a Mota variation when one sees Oromo pop up in G25 when it is something else.

One recognizes Oromo and real Mota in samples with such ancestry, such as @garangar

View attachment 342184
View attachment 342190
By the way, you (if you're still around) don't have typical South Asians but more like people with Iranic with strong South Asian substructure that exist on the gradient.

Even Bowda, who selects for Oromo or Mota actually has no such ancestry but carries ZAF-related stuff:View attachment 342191

Remove the ZAF and you have this:View attachment 342192

Notice that ZAF always carries a better fit.

Kathar (I don't think he is on the forum anymore) has Mota-related ancestry:View attachment 342195
If I add Dinka, the Bantu completely disappears. In fact, whenever you see Kindoki, assume Dinka-related stuff.

Was this entirely from Oromo? Maybe. Maybe not. He could be of substantial 15% Oromo descent, or he could be 5% Oromo yet carry enriched Mota ancestry for some strange reason. Either way, ZAF is not the explanation here. So my point is, that this is not a response that tries to undermine real mixture with Oromos, merely that there is a hidden element that often confuses Oromos for internal Somali ancestry that they got from somewhere else that probably did not look like Mota. I will go as far as to say that is why people previously thought we had Oromo while on other studies it showed a lack of such ancestry. We had very minor but present ghost component that skews these readings.

Still, among those NFD samples, 41S, 52S, and 61S, are substantially Oromo admixed.

This sounds "out there," but I think those early pastoral people had ZAF-related enrichment of a ghost population that is no more than 2-3% but were overrepresented with Mota. I really do think there is an unknown ancestry going on. I also said a long time ago that I don't think those two early Kenyan Pastoralists were Mota mixed. Something else has to be accounted for.

One can convert the Oromo affinity with Ari Blacksmith ancestry for various reasons. That proxy aligns well with the samples that show Mota affinity while the ZAF ones do not. So it cannot be a coincidence or sampling artifact, in my opinion. I think late-stage hunter-gatherers that Somalis and South Cushites (although they clearly had some Mota-related influence and the ZAF stuff with it) encountered were of two clines. One that probably stretched from the southern Somali region in the tropical regions to Kenya (Boni/Aweer people got considerable hunter-gatherer mtDNAs) and one that had a Mota cline. It seems to me that the ones Somalis came into contact with were not the Mota cline but the other one. Somali hunter-gatherers who probably were pushed south before Somalis came could have been majorly Southern African hunter-gatherers-like.

This is not far-fetched. Hunter-gatherers in the region, including Mota, had considerable ZAF elements in them. There was one study showing that hunter-gatherers in Kenya had kept to niches. It is not unusual to find isolated tribes living in their respective sub-regions in tropical zones that could be genetically isolated from each other. Usually, they had small population sizes which explains why we cannot find it in large sums among Somalis.

This ghost population theory seems to be the best answer to this. There definitely is some want in Somali samples. One reason why my sample in particular can show as wonky is perhaps because of my mixed reer bari-nfd heritage. I'm assuming most Somali samples are from people with more common mixes and from more common regions.

 

[Malikfiqi]

Send me your coordinates. I can run it.

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[The alchemist]

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This even includes those two Oromo samples. You even got a closer fit.

It overrepresented your ancestry with ~28% Oromo when even if you have real Oromo, it cannot exceed 5%. This is when I remove the ZAF.

But notice the worse fit margins.

I don't think you really have any Oromo ancestry. Seems to me there is something that is up and that expresses Oromo and/or Mota when it is some lesser-concentrated ZAF. When you account for those extra values, then the Ethiopian disappears.

I went and tried to expand my runs to rule out if I could not explain the high fit. Something peculiarly closed it further. It seems you might have ~2% Central African hunter-gatherer variation.

Your runs prefer hunter-gatherer ZAF more than Oromo and Mota, yet it also prefers any group like Biaka, Bakola, Bedzan over ZAF, but not by much.

The Austronesian is something interesting that often pops up in low values among Somalis, me included when I use unscaled. It could be some basal drift that is in parts of our "SSA" ancestry that is not well accounted for by current East African samples or some extremely old back migration. I don't think it has anything to do with anything recent.

It seems you might have some Central African hunter-gatherer-related ancestry. Not sure if this has something to do with some extinct hunter-gatherer group in the NFD or southern Somalia, something slavery-related, or something else. But one thing is for sure, you have no need for Oromo ancestry.

 

[ICEcold]

View attachment 342409

This even includes those two Oromo samples. You even got a closer fit.

It overrepresented your ancestry with ~28% Oromo when even if you have real Oromo, it cannot exceed 5%. This is when I remove the ZAF.
View attachment 342413

But notice the worse fit margins.

I don't think you really have any Oromo ancestry. Seems to me there is something that is up and that expresses Oromo and/or Mota when it is some lesser-concentrated ZAF. When you account for those extra values, then the Ethiopian disappears.

I went and tried to expand my runs to rule out if I could not explain the high fit. Something peculiarly closed it further. It seems you might have ~2% Central African hunter-gatherer variation.

Your runs prefer hunter-gatherer ZAF more than Oromo and Mota, yet it also prefers any group like Biaka, Bakola, Bedzan over ZAF, but not by much.

View attachment 342415

The Austronesian is something interesting that often pops up in low values among Somalis, me included when I use unscaled. It could be some basal drift that is in parts of our "SSA" ancestry that is not well accounted for by current East African samples or some extremely old back migration. I don't think it has anything to do with anything recent.

It seems you might have some Central African hunter-gatherer-related ancestry. Not sure if this has something to do with some extinct hunter-gatherer group in the NFD or southern Somalia, something slavery-related, or something else. But one thing is for sure, you have no need for Oromo ancestry.

Could you do mine sxb?

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