Pride, Self-hate, Loyalty and Hope

[TheMadMullah]

Actually the issue is your ilk who are stuck in the 1800s still arguing about qabyaalad when you can't see the bigger picture that we are all somali bro and it is our job to fix up. We're only 20+million max in this planet and no one will help us. No Turk, no Arab, No white man. Only is the Somali people can make Somalia great. If you are pride in being Somali then amen to that but if you divide up Somalis based on qabil then nacalaa to that and that mentality. f*ck qabyaalad.

The main thing I want to ask is when you talk about your pride coming from the heritage, background and history of your people to you refer to your qabil or to all Somalis?

This guys mindset is very dangerous sxb. What is is literally saying is that if you were something before and that thing has broken down then there is nothing left of you and you should not be speaking of Somali pride ( very bold statement).

Going by history we all know fallen nations have recovered only by means of self pride and nationalism, a good example is Germany in after ww1 and Russia after sovjet collapsed. They only recovered by massive mobilization of the people and drilling self pride and nationalism into them by looking back what they use to be and this dude is saying if your past is gone it means nothing

An old saying goes like this "if you don't know where you're from you don't know where your going"

This guys idea is nothing anti qabyalad but more like anti Somali pride. He is calling for burial of Somali nationalism the only thing that made Somali great.

 

[YoungFarah]

This guys mindset is very dangerous sxb. What is is literally saying is that if you were something before and that thing has broken down then there is nothing left of you and you should not be speaking of Somali pride ( very bold statement).

Going by history we all know fallen nations have recovered only by means of self pride and nationalism, a good example is Germany in after ww1 and Russia after sovjet collapsed. They only recovered by massive mobilization of the people and drilling self pride and nationalism into them by looking back what they use to be and this dude if your past is gone it means nothing

An old saying goes like this "if you don't know where you're from you don't know where your going"

This guys idea is nothing anti qabyalad but more like anti Somali pride. He is calling for burial of Somali nationalism the only thing that made Somali great.

I see where you're coming from but that doesn't seem to be his intention. He didn't denounce Somali nationalism he only pointed out wrongful pride in things that aren't necessarily positive. Like being proud in warlords such as caydiid, Morgan and countless other that I don't know about.

 

[embarassing]

This guys mindset is very dangerous sxb. What is is literally saying is that if you were something before and that thing has broken down then there is nothing left of you and you should not be speaking of Somali pride ( very bold statement).

Going by history we all know fallen nations have recovered only by means of self pride and nationalism, a good example is Germany in after ww1 and Russia after sovjet collapsed. They only recovered by massive mobilization of the people and drilling self pride and nationalism into them by looking back what they use to be and this dude if your past is gone it means nothing

An old saying goes like this "if you don't know where you're from you don't know where your going"

This guys idea is nothing anti qabyalad but more like anti Somali pride. He is calling for burial of Somali nationalism the only thing that made Somali great.

Quite the opposite, he's calling for a burial of delusions of granduer and for self-reflection that would actually help our people. Its anti-qabyalad and true nationalism.

Honestly try reading it again and understanding what was written, I don't understand how you can come away from reading that with this understanding.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

This guys mindset is very dangerous sxb. What is is literally saying is that if you were something before and that thing has broken down then there is nothing left of you and you should not be speaking of Somali pride ( very bold statement).

Going by history we all know fallen nations have recovered only by means of self pride and nationalism, a good example is Germany in after ww1 and Russia after sovjet collapsed. They only recovered by massive mobilization of the people and drilling self pride and nationalism into them by looking back what they use to be and this dude if your past is gone it means nothing

An old saying goes like this "if you don't know where you're from you don't know where your going"

This guys idea is nothing anti qabyalad but more like anti Somali pride. He is calling for burial of Somali nationalism the only thing that made Somali great.

I think our issue is semantics. I'm a nationalist, and I thank Allah he made me a Somali. I wouldn't have it any other way. I can see why you're having an issue with me saying we should be confident and not prideful as of yet. But I can just as easily replace that with we should have pride, but not delusional pride that blinds us from our true place in the hierarchy and blinds us from solutions. It's the same meaning really.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

Quite the opposite, he's calling for a burial of delusions of granduer and for self-reflection that would actually help our people. Its anti-qabyalad and true nationalism.

Honestly try reading it again and understanding what was written, I don't understand how you can come away from reading that with this understanding.

Exactly, thanks sis.

 

[Bahal]

We have many people on here who say they take pride in their Soomaalinimo, and then there are those who are self-hating and would switch teams in an instant if they could. I think both groups are misguided, here's why.

The dictionary definition of pride is: a feeling or deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from one's own achievements, the achievements of those with whom one is closely associated, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired.

If we look at the current state of Somalis and Somali regions are there any achievements, qualities and possessions from which we can derive a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction? The answer is unfortunately no. So why then all this talk of pride in being a Somali? I think here Somalis fall, especially young ones, into either one of two 'pride' camps.

The first is truly proud of being a Somali but only due to a faulty and misguided system of appraisal caused by an overestimation of the achievements and qualities of Somalis in comparison to other groups. It's something like the dunning-kruger effect writ-large at a societal level. This overestimation is caused by a cognitive inability or a lack of sufficient information to truly arrive at an objective assessment of ones (or in this case ones' groups) standing in the hierarchy. Interestingly, Somalis have expressed the tendency for the uninformed and/or those with lower ability to exhibit undue confidence, in proverbs such as 'habar fadhida lagdin wax uga fudud' which translates to 'there's nothing easier for a seated old woman than a take-down (in a fight)' and 'libaax nin aan aqoon baa lax ka rita' which means 'a man who does not know the lion will (foolishly) attempt to save his sheep from one'.

These young Somalis read about Black Hawk Down and the pirates who hijack ships for multi-million dollar ransoms and hear stories about their brave clan, and they come away with this idea that Somalis are 'hard' and 'brave' and that no one can mess with them. Yes, Somali valor and courage in battle is well known, but without contextualizing our place in the hierarchy it is meaningless information and amounts to an infantile understanding. What does it matter if we are brave and good fighters if all we have are machine guns mounted on Toyota pickup trucks when our neighbours have standing armies and air forces, which they are currently using to colonize Somalia? What does it matter if we are 'brave' when the Ethiopian government can ask for my arrest if I say the wrong things in my own city of Hargaysa?

It's just like youth in the hip-hop/rap culture who think gangsters are so big and bad with their guns tucked in their sagging pants, despite the fact that these gangster run as fast as they can whenever they see police. Such youth also foolishly think whites are cowards or averse to violence just because they are for the most part law abiding. If there ever was a race-war in America the madows in the inner-cities would get picked off like sitting ducks by the cadaans, many of whom are heavily armed and have been hunting and going to shooting ranges with their dads and uncles since they were young.

The second group, unlike the previous one, can actually see the abysmal state of Somalis and Somalia, but they double-down on being proud as a coping mechanism to help them deal with the ugly reality. Admitting to themselves and to others that we've hit rock bottom and are in an existential crisis is much too psychologically painful for them to handle. They'd rather live in the past and talk about the Adal and Ajuuraan empires, the Dervishes, SYL and the accomplishments of the Kacaan. They also like to focus almost exclusively on foreign meddling to explain the current state of Somali, since looking inwards perturbs their coping narrative. Once again I'm reminded of African Americans, this time with their 'We Wuz Kangz' obsessions and their constant blaming of 'whitey' and refusal to take some responsibility for their own role in the mess their in.

Granted, our history is well-documented and is not characterized by the sometimes comical historical revisions and fabrications rife in the 'We Wuz Kangz' stuff, and granted both Somalis and African Americans have faced and continue to face, to varying degrees, considerable blows and set-backs at the hands of their enemies. But despite all of that, it doesn't change the fact that we have to focus on the present, and that we have to address our own demons before looking outward to face external ones. History should be used as a source of confidence (not the same thing as pride) and as a guide for the present, not as an alternate realm to escape from the present. And as for looking inward and fixing our own issues first, well it's common sense that a well built and fortified home can better withstand the elements.

Then we have the Somalis who suffer from self-hatred. They have made a mental break with Soomaalinimo, and sometimes a physical one too by marrying out. These people are no good and foolish for two reasons. Firstly, they are disloyal. An ethnic group can be thought of as an extended kinship group, or in other words an extremely large family. If someone was born into a family that was poor, had substance abuse issues and was on welfare, would they abandon that family due to the embarrassment of being associated with them or would they remain loyal to their blood? Most people would remain loyal to their immediate families no matter what. So think of Somalis as your family on the world stage of 7 billion people. Yea we're a dysfunctional family and it's quite embarrassing, but only a spineless weasel would abandon his kin.

Secondly, they confuse a bad situation with a hopeless one. Yeah, Somalis and Somalia are a total mess. But there is nothing immutable about the current political and social ills plaguing our society. They can be fixed, and insha'Allah will be fixed. This is an important point because there are issues that cause self-hate in certain groups that can never be addressed, such as the looks related self-hate of madows and indho-yars. Look at how successful the East Asian countries are, yet they still hate themselves because of how they look and there's nothing they can do about it short of cutting and snipping away their Asianess via cosmetic surgery or marrying a White person in order to have less Asian offspring.

My advise; Use our historical achievements for confidence (have a backbone, keep your head up), and use our historical failures as lessons. Look inward, because our biggest problems are from within. Be loyal to Soomaalinimo and be hopeful for our future as a people. But do not be prideful just yet, because we need to earn it first.

It is undoubtedly trying times to be a Somali, but I truly believe from the ashes of chaos we will create for ourselves a future our forefathers could scarcely have dreamt of

 

[TheMadMullah]

I think our issue is semantics. I'm a nationalist, and I thank Allah he made me a Somali. I wouldn't have it any other way. I can see why you're having an issue with me saying we should be confident and not prideful as of yet. But I can just as easily replace that with we should have pride, but not delusional pride that blinds us from our true place in the hierarchy and blinds us from solutions. It's the same meaning really.

Sxb if we go by history there is no single nation that has fallen and recovered without taking pride in their past and sharpening it with nationalism.

I already have you a good example of Germany and Russia. But let's take it even further Turkey even after the Turks were crushed and the ottoman dismantled the Turks acknowledged their past and seeked pride in it and they bounced back with even prouder and nationalistic than ever.

I kind of agreed to your last two points but the fast one your way off sxb. Somalis can only and I repeat only recover by nationalism pride and by looking where they were 30-40 years back.

So by your saying pride in your history doesn't matter is very misleading, what is there to rebuild if you said all of the past doesn't matter lol.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

fucking A sxb

this is my outlook as well. There's no way we would be in the gutters for eternity. Already I see the stars are aligning for Somalia with our arch nemesis Ethiopia on the backfoot dealing with protests and forced to shift their attention away from us if their situation worsens. 2018 onwards will be our make or break moment for Somalia if we can get our house in order. Once we have proper governance free of foreign meddling we will once again prosper and become the powerhouse of the horn.

Excatly sxb, I'm very hopeful as well. InshaAllah the Farmaajo/Khayre government will build the foundations for a Somali revival while Ethiopia fades.

 

[YoungFarah]

Sxb if we go by history there is no single nation that has fallen and recovered without taking pride in their past and sharpening it with nationalism.

I already have you a good example of Germany and Russia. But let's take it even further Turkey even after the Turks were crushed and the ottoman dismantled the Turks acknowledged their past and seeked pride in with and they bounced back with even prouder and nationalistic than ever.

I kind of agreed to your last two points but the fast one your way off sxb. Somalis can only and I repeat only recover by nationalism pride and by looking where they were 30-40 years back.

So by your saying pride in your history doesn't matter is very misleading, what is there to rebuild if you said all of the past doesn't matter lol.

Pride in Somalia is very good but pride in qabil is cancerous. Do you get that part?

 

[GodKnowsBest]

I agree with many of your points made and being a child of the diaspora I once fit under many of these categories of a false sense of pride.

I do disagree on not being able to blame other nations on Somalias downfall. While qabilism certainly did the most damage to Somalia, the Somali people were fiddled by Barre and foreign nations. I recommend you to watch this:

 

[jugjugwacwac]

Sxb if we go by history there is no single nation that has fallen and recovered without taking pride in their past and sharpening it with nationalism.

I already have you a good example of Germany and Russia. But let's take it even further Turkey even after the Turks were crushed and the ottoman dismantled the Turks acknowledged their past and seeked pride in with and they bounced back with even prouder and nationalistic than ever.

I kind of agreed to your last two points but the fast one your way off sxb. Somalis can only and I repeat only recover by nationalism pride and by looking where they were 30-40 years back.

So by your saying pride in your history doesn't matter is very misleading, what is there to rebuild if you said all of the past doesn't matter lol.

I already said replace confidence with pride and pride with delusional pride. It's just semantics. I just want us to be realistic of our current place in the world dominance hierarchies. We are at the absolute bottom, excessive pride is misplaced. Yes, we should and must gain confidence or pride from our history, as long as it does not give us delusions of grandeur or make us take up residence in our head in a time long gone, causing us to vacate the mental-space of the present.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

It is undoubtedly trying times to be a Somali, but I truly believe from the ashes of chaos we will create for ourselves a future our forefathers could scarcely have dreamt of

Yes Jaale Bahal, it will be so insha'Allah.

 

[TheMadMullah]

Pride in Somalia is very good but pride in qabil is cancerous. Do you get that part?

Absolutely agree with you on that but if you look back to his first statement that is not what he is saying.

The first is truly proud of being a Somali but only due to a faulty and misguided system of appraisal caused by an overestimation of the achievements and qualities of Somalis in comparison to other groups.

So according to him Somali achievements is overestimated and we should there no seek pride in what he calls overestimated and misguided achievements lol.

I wonder if calls over estimated the second best military in Africa only second to Egypt or the first female pilot from Africa or the first democratically elected president, or the only government in Africa to have achieved biggest literacy campaign in africa.

As much as he has good points, the threat he of his ideals are real and far dangerous than his good intentions.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

Absolutely agree with you on that but if you look back to his first statement that is not what he is saying.



So according to him Somali achievements is overestimated and we should there no seek pride in what he calls overestimated and misguided achievements lol.

I wonder if calls over estimated the second best military in Africa only second to Egypt or the first female pilot from Africa or the first democratically elected president, or the only government in Africa to have achieved biggest literacy campaign in africa.

As much as he has good points, the threat he of his ideals are real and far dangerous than his good intentions.

I was talking about overestimating our current situation. Like for example someone thinking they're the shit because they're from Somaliland or Puntland, even though they are just bottom of the barrel Ethiopian satellite states that can't feed, educate or defend its citizenry.

 

[YoungFarah]

Absolutely agree with you on that but if you look back to his first statement that is not what he is saying.

Nice to see that you agree on that but your behaviour on SSPOT mostly divides Somalis. Half of your threads are about a certain qabil and how you caay them. They are our fellow Somalis and we shouldn't put out rhetoric that further divides us. Nice to see that you aren't completely blinded by qabyaalad. Heed the word of TQ.

 

[yuusufdiin]

Pride in Somalia is very good but pride in qabil is cancerous. Do you get that part?

pride in qabiil creates qabiil supremacy which makes you look down on other qabiils which creates qabiil conflicts which turns into us killing each other, this also creates sub clan feuds which is extremely sad

 

[TheMadMullah]

Read it again. He clearly made a distinction b/w delusional pride and using our history as a source of confidence and lessons.

Can you plz explain what is delusional?

And the idea of confidence is individualistic one, as you can't istall confidence in 20 million Somalis but you can drill pride and nationalism in them and that creates collectivity and nationhood.

 

[embarassing]

Can you plz explain what is delusional?

And the idea of confidence is individualistic one, as you can't istall confidence in 20 million Somalis but you can drill pride and nationalism in them and that creates collectivity and nationhood.

It is delusional because of our state today, the past doesn't exist anymore only the present does.

Its delusional to sit around and talk about how great Somalis are, to talk about former empires, battles, qabils, leaders, anything, if its not used as a source of inspiration to replicate the good and learn from the bad, TODAY as in the present. If its not utilized in a helpful way, yes it may as well be buried. You can't use those things to ignore/excuse the present pathetic state were in.

 

[TheMadMullah]

It is delusional because of our state today, the past doesn't exist anymore only the present does.

Its delusional to sit around and talk about how great Somalis are, to talk about former empires, battles, qabils, leaders, anything, if its not used as a source of inspiration to replicate the good and learn from the bad, TODAY as in the present. If its not utilized in a helpful way, yes it may as well be buried. You can't use those things to ignore/excuse the present pathetic state were in.

So with that mindset of yours Germany should have never after ww1 and again after ww2 to become the richest country In Europe? Because it's their past that made them realize what they are capable of?

Lol take your defeatist mindset elsewhere huuno.

 

[GodKnowsBest]

So with that mindset of yours Germany should have never after ww1 and again after ww2 to become the richest country In Europe? Because it's their past that made them realize what they are capable of?

Lol take your defeatist mindset elsewhere huuno.

This Germany juxtaposition must be brought up every single time an individual says Somalia is hopeless.

I will never give up on Somalia