Puntlanders let us be fair and rounded
- Thread starter Saahid Qamaan
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Von
With blood and Iron will we reach the fatherland
it shall remain a mystery
Von
With blood and Iron will we reach the fatherland
Just cause I lived there doesn't mean I can't criticise it
Lets be honest here, Federal states just mean Qabil states no lies here.
Von
With blood and Iron will we reach the fatherland
Cause I have family in those two cities in the northern provinces. What about you? Whats your history or connection to PL?
So you "heard " there was no electricity, you never saw? This man is a fraud he never went to Bosaso. What was the xaafad called?I've lived and studied in Bari, Puntites SSpoters can only dream of the place, my most memorable event was hearing that there was no electricity during the day
Von
With blood and Iron will we reach the fatherland
Imagine hearing on day one , "sorry fam we don't have electricity here for the most part only at night" I don't remember the name of the Xaafad in either city I was in Bosaso for a short time but in QardhI i lived near a blue mosque.
I see what you're doing, nice try tho but my family is safe in the south and i stayed in North not because of school, food or AS but for personal reasons
Von
With blood and Iron will we reach the fatherland
I thought so, ill ask my parents for details
I am very critical of Puntland. I know Puntland isn't built for 'development', it's been built only to maintain 'peace'. That's why most of it's budget is spent on security, not development. The reason why it's like this is very simple. How can we develop when the president, capital city, and all institutions are located in 1 city with the same tribe. It's just not feasibly possible as this doesn't create an environment of accountability. Who will he be accountible to? his own tribesman? The problem with this is, his tribe will overlook all his bad things and it leads to a cycle of no development happening in the long-term!!!
In all honesty, the president has nothing to fear, he knows he won't see opposition as everything is in his favor and he knows that PL have a secret rule that each president finishes his term also. In-fact when a president knows he can finish his term for 5 years without any question if he is any good, this just leads to incompetence being the law of the land and he has no incentive to do any good. Infact, the president knows if anyone challenges his leadership it could begin a clan-war which he knows that PL doesn't want that since it's the whole of PL was built around security.
Imagine if we separated our institutions. Put the parliament in Badhan, made president not Majerten, put the military in sool. You know divide the power of the state through-out the region so there is a check n balance of some sort. If we had a non local as president, this would lead to the locals 'watching' the president carefully and holding him accountable, this will inject fear in the president heart to do good or fear the locals breaking into his presidential compound. Development doesn't come easy, you need to set up the environment for it!!! and a leader who has nothing to fear has no incentive to do good which has been seen for 20 years now in Puntland. It's how we are built that is the problem, we are built for security, not development.
If we were build for development, we wouldn't have our govt set up the way it is because it is impossible to develop where there is no fear on the part of the president from the people, where institutions aren't distributed through-out the regions to check n balance power, etc.
In all honesty, the president has nothing to fear, he knows he won't see opposition as everything is in his favor and he knows that PL have a secret rule that each president finishes his term also. In-fact when a president knows he can finish his term for 5 years without any question if he is any good, this just leads to incompetence being the law of the land and he has no incentive to do any good. Infact, the president knows if anyone challenges his leadership it could begin a clan-war which he knows that PL doesn't want that since it's the whole of PL was built around security.
Imagine if we separated our institutions. Put the parliament in Badhan, made president not Majerten, put the military in sool. You know divide the power of the state through-out the region so there is a check n balance of some sort. If we had a non local as president, this would lead to the locals 'watching' the president carefully and holding him accountable, this will inject fear in the president heart to do good or fear the locals breaking into his presidential compound. Development doesn't come easy, you need to set up the environment for it!!! and a leader who has nothing to fear has no incentive to do good which has been seen for 20 years now in Puntland. It's how we are built that is the problem, we are built for security, not development.
If we were build for development, we wouldn't have our govt set up the way it is because it is impossible to develop where there is no fear on the part of the president from the people, where institutions aren't distributed through-out the regions to check n balance power, etc.
Dr Osman thank you very much. This is what we need a long term strategy. I am a realist that is why I am leaning towards a Puntland centric approach. I do not like any discourse within Puntland based on subclans I want people to identify as Puntite first and second his clan, region or whatever like nationality.
Other regions within the federal framework have devolutions unlikr Puntland.
Gaas refused to build a supreme court. The judiciary must be in some other place like Dhahar for example. But Gaas does not want rule of law, he does not want accountibility or oversight that is really sad.
Dr Osman is right unwritten rules hinder the progress of the state as clans have figured out what they need to do it is like following a script.
Good analysis Dr Osman.
Other regions within the federal framework have devolutions unlikr Puntland.
Gaas refused to build a supreme court. The judiciary must be in some other place like Dhahar for example. But Gaas does not want rule of law, he does not want accountibility or oversight that is really sad.
Dr Osman is right unwritten rules hinder the progress of the state as clans have figured out what they need to do it is like following a script.
Good analysis Dr Osman.
Sahid if you want to talk good governance, I can discuss that with you. We need to do what Mogadishu is doing. Setting up an independent corruption watchdog office which has enforceable laws to go into each ministry and do 'random' checks for accountability against the mission and vision of each ministry and seeing what results they have produced against it, ensuring best practises for hiring workers on skills not family/friends, setting up a 'I paid a bribe' website like India has for example to name and shame culprits, and many other rules that Puntlanders agree on about what good governance is to them.
Then we will need a parliament bill for corruption that clearly states out what the duties of the corruption watchdog is, what enforceable laws they have, what sentencing will be applicable to anyone found charged with corruption, what process they must go through to determine someone has conducted in corruption. We can adopt the tough sentencing regimes like the singaporean model which is 'automatic death penalty' or we could have a punishment regime that 'name and shames them on public tv', or making them outcast in society by setting a corruption database which every company in the country must put workers through to ensure they haven't been charged with corruption this limits their opportunity of ever finding employment again, set up a jail sentences, or a mix of all of that or even more depending on what Puntlanders agree on.
Our goal must be to make it so difficult to conduct in corruption that it becomes so undesirable to people who fear they will lose so much more in life if they ever caught. It's a prevention tactic basically, If I know I can be named and shamed which somalis hate, plus jail sentence, plus losing out on job opportunities in the future because each company to check the corruption database before hiring a worker, you can see clearly it will start to stop happening.
But I am sorry like I said, I don't think PL was built for good governance of such, it was built mainly to ensure clans weren't killing each other, their system safeguards the peace in Puntland where every leader is allowed to finish his time regardless if their doing any good or not because this ensures clans don't fight for power or have a power struggle.
What we should do is encourage other regions to begin this process, because this will make PL jealous to get it's act together. That's the only hope really, which is why I am focusing on alot on Mogadishu lately, because they have the environment set up just perfect for good governance to begin. You really think khayre or farmaajo would do good governance if they were 'abgal' the majority in mogadishu? they are doing this because they know they have no other choice or else the locals might up-rise and break into their compounds or some opportunistic abgaal will come along and say 'lets take back our city' from these 'non locals' using 'bad governance' as his 'war cry'.
Saahid PL hope is really making sure other regions get ahead of us, then and only then will they get their act together when all Somalis are moving forward.
Then we will need a parliament bill for corruption that clearly states out what the duties of the corruption watchdog is, what enforceable laws they have, what sentencing will be applicable to anyone found charged with corruption, what process they must go through to determine someone has conducted in corruption. We can adopt the tough sentencing regimes like the singaporean model which is 'automatic death penalty' or we could have a punishment regime that 'name and shames them on public tv', or making them outcast in society by setting a corruption database which every company in the country must put workers through to ensure they haven't been charged with corruption this limits their opportunity of ever finding employment again, set up a jail sentences, or a mix of all of that or even more depending on what Puntlanders agree on.
Our goal must be to make it so difficult to conduct in corruption that it becomes so undesirable to people who fear they will lose so much more in life if they ever caught. It's a prevention tactic basically, If I know I can be named and shamed which somalis hate, plus jail sentence, plus losing out on job opportunities in the future because each company to check the corruption database before hiring a worker, you can see clearly it will start to stop happening.
But I am sorry like I said, I don't think PL was built for good governance of such, it was built mainly to ensure clans weren't killing each other, their system safeguards the peace in Puntland where every leader is allowed to finish his time regardless if their doing any good or not because this ensures clans don't fight for power or have a power struggle.
What we should do is encourage other regions to begin this process, because this will make PL jealous to get it's act together. That's the only hope really, which is why I am focusing on alot on Mogadishu lately, because they have the environment set up just perfect for good governance to begin. You really think khayre or farmaajo would do good governance if they were 'abgal' the majority in mogadishu? they are doing this because they know they have no other choice or else the locals might up-rise and break into their compounds or some opportunistic abgaal will come along and say 'lets take back our city' from these 'non locals' using 'bad governance' as his 'war cry'.
Saahid PL hope is really making sure other regions get ahead of us, then and only then will they get their act together when all Somalis are moving forward.
Saahid, we are also have to think about, just because we set up the institutions doesn't mean they're will be an absent of corruption. For example if we set up the high court in Dhahar as you said, what's stopping someone who is president to 'pay' of the high court ruler? you see the high court ruler will look out for his own interest first regardless of what city or tribe he is located in. That's why it's critical to have totally independent corruption watch-dogs, who have a clear mandate that is written down not one where they make up one for themselves, and they go in and watch the government and institutions including the high court.
We want to make sure every decision that is reached in the state is held accountible to someone that is totally Indepedent. I would prefer the religious people to own the high court and corruption watchdog institution to be quite honest!!! They usually a-lot more trustworthy in these aspects then secularists!!!
The religious folks unfortunately are so busy focusing on what people are wearing and nonsensical things like stealing, like what the hell. We allow people who do corruption to walk the street, these people have committed a crime against millions of somalis, yet we punish low level criminals with harsh punishments like chopping hands off. This makes no sense to me at all!!! Their priorities are not straight at all.
Somalia has the highest corruption in the world, we are ranked no 1 and we all know that but we all forget we also have the lowest incarceration for corruption. As of yet not a single person has been sent to jail for it. How is that possible? we should be having hundreds and thousands in jail cells for corruption if we compare it against how high we are ranked for corruption in the world!!!
Puntland honestly going to have to change their model of government and sit down with all the clans and say 'waxani dan nooma ah' this lack of accountability will lead to no development in the long-term and we will progress only at the whim of a 'good leader', where-as we don't want to rely on a 'human being' we want to rely on our system which should generate 'hundreds of good' leaders because it has been designed to ensure garbage can't survive.
We want to make sure every decision that is reached in the state is held accountible to someone that is totally Indepedent. I would prefer the religious people to own the high court and corruption watchdog institution to be quite honest!!! They usually a-lot more trustworthy in these aspects then secularists!!!
The religious folks unfortunately are so busy focusing on what people are wearing and nonsensical things like stealing, like what the hell. We allow people who do corruption to walk the street, these people have committed a crime against millions of somalis, yet we punish low level criminals with harsh punishments like chopping hands off. This makes no sense to me at all!!! Their priorities are not straight at all.
Somalia has the highest corruption in the world, we are ranked no 1 and we all know that but we all forget we also have the lowest incarceration for corruption. As of yet not a single person has been sent to jail for it. How is that possible? we should be having hundreds and thousands in jail cells for corruption if we compare it against how high we are ranked for corruption in the world!!!
Puntland honestly going to have to change their model of government and sit down with all the clans and say 'waxani dan nooma ah' this lack of accountability will lead to no development in the long-term and we will progress only at the whim of a 'good leader', where-as we don't want to rely on a 'human being' we want to rely on our system which should generate 'hundreds of good' leaders because it has been designed to ensure garbage can't survive.
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Dr Osman I totally agree with all you have said and it shows in your writings that you really care.
Puntland following the lead of other States that were recently established from 2014 upto 2017 is the only way as you said can change the current situation in Puntland. People have already being pointing out the faults within the system and comparing states according to their good governance. This is hope and would embarrass the leadership in Puntland because they would not have a choice. However as you said Puntland was established for defense purposes maybe young progressive leaders can change the quagmire but it will be difficult as there is a web of bribery and clanism which would make it hard to penetrate. Any reform anywhere is difficult the only hope is emulating other states as there would be no excuse.
Puntland following the lead of other States that were recently established from 2014 upto 2017 is the only way as you said can change the current situation in Puntland. People have already being pointing out the faults within the system and comparing states according to their good governance. This is hope and would embarrass the leadership in Puntland because they would not have a choice. However as you said Puntland was established for defense purposes maybe young progressive leaders can change the quagmire but it will be difficult as there is a web of bribery and clanism which would make it hard to penetrate. Any reform anywhere is difficult the only hope is emulating other states as there would be no excuse.
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