Rape is very common in Somalia/land and other Somali regions

[dhegdheer]

OK!? What does this prove?

What does it prove...? u tell me. That is the fucking quote you've been using to "prove" Sexual violence isn't common in Somalia! It is common
like do u have short term memory loss? do u not remember the things u wrote

Somalia has laws and institutions, but they are not perfect and they need improvement. Never disputed this

I am a aware of all the issues with the justice system and i have said it needs a reform and which is the enforce policies that make offender liable.

Which is the main issue making offenders liable.

Now what i was referring to is low reporting of the crime is common throughout both the first and third world for similar reasons. It is not because it accepted crime and nothing particular to Somalia.

Look no one was trying to say u denied anything about the justice system I'm just pointing out the fact that you can't seem to put 2 and 2 together...

I don't understand how u can say that the justice system needs a re haul and then completely deny the high prevalence of rape in Somalia. It's not just the law that needs changing it's also Somalis attitude in general towards rape. The gender imbalance needs to be addressed too

 

[Dhabaal]

What does it prove...? u tell me. That is the fucking quote you've been using to "prove" Sexual violence isn't common in Somalia! It is common
like do u have short term memory loss? do u not remember the things u wrote

I meant ''Common'' as in ''prevalence'', not common as in re-occurring reality. Rape happens in all parts of Somalia i have always totally agreed with that.

Look no one was trying to say u denied anything about the justice system I'm just pointing out the fact that you can't seem to put 2 and 2 together...

I don't understand how u can say that the justice system needs a re haul and then completely deny the high prevalence of rape in Somalia. It's not just the law that needs changing it's also Somalis attitude in general towards rape. The gender imbalance needs to be addressed too

How is 2% to 13% high prevelance? do you even read your own report, it is common in the sense that it is reoccurring reality. not in the sense of prevalency and the low report does count in this . and i was also disagreeing with the fact that you were saying it was an accepted cultural thing.

So you are attacking positions i have never made and i actually talked about what was wrong with the justice system and what needed improvement in a previous post couple of pages back

If you actually read my posts instead of strawmanning me you would know

I have been to Puntland i can confirm that sexual violence does indeed happen, never denied that or excused it. Like i said , Somalia needs justice reforms and restructuring their justice systems, they need to enforce rational restorative justice and some form of puntive justice. Or else the perpetrator will be absolved liability

Punitive justice will commensurate with the gravity of the offence and solely restitution/compensation will be insufficient.

 

[dhegdheer]

"I meant common as in 'prevalence" - ignores all the reports showing it is a wide spread issue

"2% to 13% isn't high prevelance'! - Zeros in on the 2% to 13% part and completely ignores the explanations provided for these factors

"read ur own reports!!" - Tries to disguise the fact that op hasn't read any of the reports HE provided lmao

"It's not a cultural thing" - doesn't provide any evidence to rebuff the statement, ignores the numerous articles stating otherwise

"They don't calculate sexual violence rate with how many report it" yet turns around and claims that the low report does count to show it's not prevalent
- insert obligatory comment about strawmanning

 

[Dhabaal]

"

"It's not a cultural thing" - doesn't provide any evidence to rebuff the statement, ignores the numerous articles stating otherwise

Convergence of Civil War and the Religious Right: Reimagining Somali Women
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/518393?journalCode=signs
Cawo Mohamed Abdi

Rape in Somali culture is very stigmatizing. Prior to the war it was rare and severely condemned, making group or clan relations very tense when it occurred. Women's virginity was highly valued, and violating their honor was considered scandalous.

 

[dhegdheer]

Placing value on womens virginity doesn't affect the way rape victims are treated of course

 

[Dhabaal]

Placing value on womens virginity doesn't affect the way rape victims are treated of course

So you are now straw-manning the study, . Excluding the part of ''Severely condemned,'' and ''Prior to the civil war it was rare '' and '' ''Violating their honor was considered Scandalous''

Rape is not cultural nor was it accepted, Somalia has been through a civil war so it is in a transitions. Meaning every system and institution is in a process of rebuilding and reconstructing themselves.

 

[NoName]

Has Dhambaal ever debated anyone without using the phrase 'straw man' at least once in every post?

 

[Dhabaal]

Has Dhambaal ever debated anyone without using the phrase 'straw man' at least once in every post?

Ok straw-man is not a phrase. It is a logical fallacy If she keeps insisting on committing the fallacy i will keep mentioning it.

Definition

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".

The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e. "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's actual proposition.

 

[NoName]

Ok straw-man is not a phrase.

Huh?

It's all good saying it when someone has committed a logical fallacy that fits the description. But labelling any disagreement you have with somebody as a logical fallacy (and in particular 'straw man', which you're obsessed with to be honest) is pathetic! But by all means carry on.

 

[Showtime]

Huh?

It's all good saying it when someone has committed a logical fallacy that fits the description. But labelling any disagreement you have with somebody as a logical fallacy (and in particular 'straw man', which you're obsessed with to be honest) is pathetic! But by all means carry on.

Reading through this i feel dhabaal hes has a wadaani in him i have the same problem as him i cant digest any negative light being protrayed on my country n i struggled with that but sometimes we have to be honest rape is a problem and its not excuseable like i use to tell me fellow waryas bk home but speaking to them and taking in there mind set to them they think it is ok and that if is past midnight n a girl is outside then so be she was asking for it so us educated people they way i see it is preach some knowledge to are fellow abdis and let let the xalimos know we dont condone in dat saas ayaa maskaax fiiyow ah

 

[Tramo]

Reading through this i feel dhabaal hes has a wadaani in him i have the same problem as him i cant digest any negative light being protrayed on my country n i struggled with that but sometimes we have to be honest rape is a problem and its not excuseable like i use to tell me fellow waryas bk home but speaking to them and taking in there mind set to them they think it is ok and that if is past midnight n a girl is outside then so be she was asking for it so us educated people they way i see it is preach some knowledge to are fellow abdis and let let the xalimos know we dont condone in dat saas ayaa maskaax fiiyow ah

there's being a wadani, and then there's trying to rationalize and minimize every negative aspect of our people, even rape...waa waali cas

sometimes u just gotta call a spade a spade

 

[Dhabaal]

there's being a wadani, and then there's trying to rationalize and minimize every negative aspect of our people, even rape...waa waali cas

sometimes u just gotta call a spade a spade

First of all i am not wadani , don't believe in Nation state i think that is artificial and i have no problem with discussing negative i have said this several times.

Secondly why is it wrong to have a complex in-depth analytic look at the problems in our society?

What is rational behind bashing, lying, labelling, detracting smearing, stereotyping people? So unless i do that i romanticize and some uber nationalist that downplays something?

 

[Galaeri]

there's being a wadani, and then there's trying to rationalize and minimize every negative aspect of our people, even rape...waa waali cas

sometimes u just gotta call a spade a spade

They suggested that rape is very common across the entire Somalia. As if Somalis codone and encourage rape, or that we have a rape culture.Would you actually believe something like that? Lol.

He said rape does occur in Somalia but it is not as widespread as some are claiming and that the primary victims are IDPs and women that live in Al-shabab strongholds. It is very obvious that is the case.

 

[dhegdheer]

I don't think some of u know what rape culture means lol

Rape culture is a term that was coined by feminists in the United States in the 1970's. It was designed to show the ways in which society blamed victims of sexual assault and normalized male sexual violence.

Tell me if this doesn't describe our community to a t...

Feel free to deny the fact that sexual assault isn't widespread in Somalia tho. Just ignore all the reports, statistics, articles stating otherwise

 

[Tramo]

First of all i am not wadani , don't believe in Nation state i think that is artificial and i have no problem with discussing negative i have said this several times.

Secondly why is it wrong to have a complex in-depth analytic look at the problems in our society?

What is rational behind bashing, lying, labelling, detracting smearing, stereotyping people? So unless i do that i romanticize and some uber nationalist that downplays something?

go outside, talk to ppl. shit, grab a ticket to somalia and see for urself. right now u aint nothing more than a google scholar, gleaning everything u know about the country from the fucking internet

anybody who isn't being a disingenuous mental gymnast knows that rape isnt confined to IDPs and al shabaab. there is a huge problem in the north right now as well, and there IS a culture of indifference at the very least...and it should be disturbing as shit to anybody in their right minds

to sit here and try to whitewash that cuz u feel like ur culture is under attack or some shit is pathetic. nigga f*ck a culture, our women are more important wadanigaa tahay wase

 

[Galaeri]

I don't think some of u know what rape culture means lol



Tell me if this doesn't describe our community to a t...

Feel free to deny the fact that sexual assault isn't widespread in Somalia tho. Just ignore all the reports, statistics, articles stating otherwise

This is what Mudane Wikipedia says

Rape culture is a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality.[1][2] There is disagreement over what defines rape culture and as to whether any societies currently meet the criteria for a rape culture.

You know exactly what I am trying to say. I cbf getting a different citation, this will surely do.

Can you even measure the extent to which the stigma attached to reporting rape would increase the statistics. It is essential to your argument.

 

[Galaeri]

go outside, talk to ppl. shit, grab a ticket to somalia and see for urself. right now u aint nothing more than a google scholar, gleaning everything u know about the country from the fucking internet

anybody who isn't being a disingenuous mental gymnast knows that rape isnt confined to IDPs and al shabaab. there is a huge problem in the north right now as well, and there IS a culture of indifference at the very least...and it should be disturbing as shit to anybody in their right minds

to sit here and try to whitewash that cuz u feel like ur culture is under attack or some shit is pathetic. nigga f*ck a culture, our women are more important wadanigaa tahay wase

Do not stereotype the entire north. Most of the North is stable and is not gripped by violence, this includes sexual violence. Nobody is arguing that IDPs are the only ones that get raped, they are the only people that are systematically. Rape can take place anywhere, it isn't however commonplace everywhere. It is surprisingly difficult for some to understand this simple concept.

 

[Dhabaal]

go outside, talk to ppl. shit, grab a ticket to somalia and see for urself. right now u aint nothing more than a google scholar, gleaning everything u know about the country from the fucking internet
anybody who isn't being a disingenuous mental gymnast knows that rape isnt confined to IDPs and al shabaab. there is a huge problem in the north right now as well, and there IS a culture of indifference at the very least...and it should be disturbing as shit to anybody in their right minds

to sit here and try to whitewash that cuz u feel like ur culture is under attack or some shit is pathetic. nigga f*ck a culture, our women our more important wadanigaa tahay wase

You must have missed by previous posts. I never said rape does not happen outside of IDP camps and only by alshabaab. You guys keep strawmanning me.

It is not culture of indifferent, there is problem with the justice system that needs to be reformed which i have said on my post below.

I have been to Puntland i can confirm that sexual violence does indeed happen, never denied that or excused it.

Like i said , Somalia needs justice reforms and restructuring their justice systems, they need to enforce rational restorative justice and some form of puntive justice. Or else the perpetrator will be absolved liability

Punitive justice will commensurate with the gravity of the offence and solely restitution/compensation will be insufficient.

 

[Tramo]

Do not stereotype the entire north. Most of the North is stable and is not gripped by violence, this includes sexual violence. Nobody is arguing that IDPs are the only ones that get raped, they are the only people that are systematically. Rape can take place anywhere, it isn't however commonplace everywhere. It is surprisingly difficult for some to understand this simple concept.

i'm not stereotyping, shit i'm from the north...i'm talking about a serious issue. u gotta be impartial when it comes to something as serious as rape. i feel like yall niggas take this shit too lightly walahi. when talking about the culture and attitude towards rape, how prevalent it is, or whether it's systematic or not is completely irrelevant

and even if i was stereotyping, so what? y'all so offended by ppl and a culture getting stereotyped but seemingly have no issue with the culture of indifference to and victim blaming of rape that exists. like i said waa waali cas

idk about yall but i'm willing to thow my culture under the bus and stereotype mfs if it means something is done about this issue, that's a more than fair price to pay if i was to go that route. walahi i'd go straight @VixR on niggas (sorry Vix )

niggas gang rape girls in hargeisa, and instead of getting punished, it's the girls whose reputations are ruined by being labeled s ffs. b-but MUH CULTURE, naw f*ck that noise

 

[VixR]

Did I just get verb'd?

What does it mean?