Religious Roundtable | PBD Podcast

[Internet Nomad]

A muslim in a debate should not be timid about his beliefs and should speak confidently about the bitter parts. Also understand the way you phrase these things is also important.

 

[Internet Nomad]

When your critics are men who are gay-atheist fans you are probably on the right track which is why his popularity is sky rocketing and he is representing actual Muslims on one of the biggest podcasts. Alhamdulilah.

Im not a fan of destiny especially after his anti-islam arc he went on. However i can appreciate that he is quick witted and a excellent debater. That doesn’t mean what he debates is true its just a skill.

 

[AMusee]

The fact that your mind cannot consider a person who is not Muslim can be smart(not religiously but in general) is shocking and says more about your iq than it says about mine.

Are you secular? Why are you secularizing it when you never qualified it to begin with. You and the weirdo said the gay-athest-swinger was smart and the Muslim was dumb. Full stop.

Mind you the context of this thread in which those statements were made were about Muslims debating the gay-atheists on Islam. So what are you talking about? Did you mean to say he was smart in talking fast or math?

 

[Internet Nomad]

Are you secular? Why are you secularizing it when you never qualified it to begin with. You and the weirdo said the gay-athest-swinger was smart and the Muslim was dumb. Full stop.

Mind you the context of this thread in which those statements were made were about Muslims debating the gay-atheists on Islam. So what are you talking about? Did you mean to say he was smart in talking fast or math?

No im pro shariah. I didn't say any
pacific muslim was dumb but i said it is possible for an atheist individual like destiny to be smart in general and a muslim can be dumb. Doesn’t mean the atheist is saying the truth.

The fact that i had to break this down to you slowly like a child is concerning.

 

[AMusee]

No im pro shariah. I didn't say any
pacific muslim was dumb but i said it is possible for an atheist individual like destiny to be smart in general and a muslim can be dumb. Doesn’t mean the atheist is saying the truth.

The fact that i had to break this down to you slowly like a child is concerning.

I will leave it here due to your first sentence and me not seeing a history of you being a reformist deviant like @cooli3o who claims to be Muslim but talks about the Shariah not being applicable anymore and insulting Muslim da'ees while praising atheist homosexuals.

I would advise you to look into peoples post to determine their intentions before agreeing to their deviant opinions, dont be easily lead astray. Like the one you were going back and forth with on here.

You should also look into the implications of what you are saying. Secularism is a completely different and opposing system to Islam. So there is no "religiously" anything as opposed to in "general". That is a secular line of thinking where you are separating religion from the real world. Everything IS religious and Muslims do see everything through the lens Islam. Something the deviant was calling tinted glasses.

Good and bad is what Allah SWT tells us it is, that is the same for smart/intelligent and stupid/foolish.


And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know [it] not.

Surah Baqarah 13


And who would be averse to the religion of Abraham except one who makes a fool of himself. And We had chosen him in this world, and indeed he, in the Hereafter, will be among the righteous.

Surah Baqarah 130


And when it is said to them, "Follow what Allāh has revealed," they say, "Rather, we will follow that which we found our fathers doing." Even though their fathers understood nothing, nor were they guided?

The example of those who disbelieve is like that of one who shouts at what hears nothing but calls and cries [i.e., cattle or sheep] - deaf, dumb and blind, so they do not understand.

Surah Baqarah 170-171


[This is] a blessed Book which We have revealed to you, [O Muḥammad], that they might reflect upon its verses and that those of understanding would be reminded.

Surah Sad 29


O you who have believed, whoever of you should revert from his religion - Allāh will bring forth [in place of them] a people He will love and who will love Him [who are] humble toward the believers, strong against the disbelievers; they strive in the cause of Allāh and do not fear the blame of a critic. That is the favor of Allāh; He bestows it upon whom He wills. And Allāh is all-Encompassing and Knowing.

Surah At-Tawbah 54


The believing men and believing women are allies of one another. They enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and establish prayer and give zakāh and obey Allāh and His Messenger. Those - Allāh will have mercy upon them. Indeed, Allāh is Exalted in Might and Wise.

Surah At-Tawbah 71


O you who have believed, do not take the disbelievers as allies instead of the believers. Do you wish to give Allāh against yourselves a clear case?

Surah An-Nisa 144

 

[Internet Nomad]

I will leave it here due to your first sentence and me not seeing a history of you being a reformist deviant like @cooli3o who claims to be Muslim but talks about the Shariah not being applicable anymore and insulting Muslim da'ees while praising atheist homosexuals.

I would advise you to look into peoples post to determine their intentions before agreeing to their deviant opinions, dont be easily lead astray. Like the one you were going back and forth with on here.

You should also look into the implications of what you are saying. Secularism is a completely different and opposing system to Islam. So there is no "religiously" anything as opposed to in "general". That is a secular line of thinking where you are separating religion from the real world. Everything IS religious and Muslims do see everything through the lens Islam. Something the deviant was calling tinted glasses.

Good and bad is what Allah SWT tells us it is, that is the same for smart/intelligent and stupid/foolish.


And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know [it] not.

Surah Baqarah 13


And who would be averse to the religion of Abraham except one who makes a fool of himself. And We had chosen him in this world, and indeed he, in the Hereafter, will be among the righteous.

Surah Baqarah 130


And when it is said to them, "Follow what Allāh has revealed," they say, "Rather, we will follow that which we found our fathers doing." Even though their fathers understood nothing, nor were they guided?

The example of those who disbelieve is like that of one who shouts at what hears nothing but calls and cries [i.e., cattle or sheep] - deaf, dumb and blind, so they do not understand.

Surah Baqarah 170-171


[This is] a blessed Book which We have revealed to you, [O Muḥammad], that they might reflect upon its verses and that those of understanding would be reminded.

Surah Sad 29

Look how quick it is for people like you to label me and @cooli3o as reformist deviants. If this nigga had any political power i swear within a shariah government he would lock us away. Even if we agree with most of his opinions we just deliver it differently.

Honestly I understand why people leave the deen when they see brick wall like this guy representing the deen.

The reason i call you a brick wall is because you have a rigid mindset.

InB4 you say Im trying to persuade you into reforming the Quran because your easy to predict.

Im saying you should be able to have the social awareness to understand when some is saying X person is smart it doesn’t mean all their values are correct it just means they think they are intelligent generally.

Also im not a secularist. Im pro shariah if a option of it being a fair islamic government.

Also not everything has to do with religion somethings are just non-religious by nature. For example the topic of plumbing is not religious at all. So if i can give an example of something being non religious it shatters your argument of everything having to do with religion.

 

[AMusee]

Look how quick it is for people like you to label me and @cooli3o as reformist deviants. If this nigga had any political power i swear within a shariah government he would lock us away. Even if we agree with most of his opinions we just deliver it differently.

Honestly I understand why people leave the deen when they see brick wall like this guy representing the deen.

The reason i call you a brick wall is because you have a rigid mindset.

InB4 you say Im trying to persuade you into reforming the Quran because your easy to predict.

Im saying you should be able to have the social awareness to understand when some is saying X person is smart it doesn’t mean all their values are correct it just means they think they are intelligent generally.

Also im not a secularist. Im pro shariah if a option of it being a fair islamic government.

Also not everything has to do with religion somethings are just non-religious by nature. For example the topic of plumbing is not religious at all. So if i can give an example of something being non religious it shatters your argument of everything having to do with religion.

I did not call you a deviant reformist but @cooli3o who you are passionatley defending even after I told you he has posts saying the shariah is out-dated. You did not mind that at all and then went into an emotional rant about understanding apostates because you think im not being sensitive enough. Is your deen dependent on how others make you feel? That is quite dangerous and shaky ground to be on.

Also dont qualify the Shariah with *if* its fair, the same way you did not qualify democracy in another post. Why would you assume the possibility of Shariah not being fair while you did not show the same assumption for the facade that is democracy?

You are saying everything is not about deen when the entire thread is about Islam and the deviant was praising atheists in context of debating Muslims no one was talking about plumbing?

May Allah SWT guide you and me and all the sincere. Have a good night, assalamu alaikum.

 

[Internet Nomad]

I did not call you a deviant reformist but @cooli3o who you are passionatley defending even after I told you he has posts saying the shariah is out-dated. You did not mind that at all and then went into an emotional rant about understanding apostates because you think im not being sensitive enough. Is your deen dependent on how others make you feel? That is quite dangerous and shaky ground to be on.

If @cooli3o thinks shariah is outdated thats up to him. I also held such beliefs however i changed my views overtime. I don’t fault people for having such beliefs because its a standard belief that people are indoctrinated to in the west that democracy is the best system ever.

If you are in a debate the way you say something is very important despite what you think about peoples feelings.

Even the way Islam came to the first believers is according to how i said.

Sahih al-Bukhari 4993 - Virtues of the Qur'an - كتاب فضائل القرآن - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

Also dont qualify the Shariah with *if* its fair, the same way you did not qualify democracy in another post. Why would you assume the possibility of Shariah not being fair while you did not show the same assumption for the facade that is democracy?

The reason why is at least democracy is built from the people so if anything goes weong they can vote out the person in charge.

However Shariah gives a lot of power to the khalif so if something goes wrong they cant get voted out.

I am more inclined towards shariah because its rightful system ordained by Allah. So i have full faith in him thats it is the best system for man and women to thrive.

Historically that has also been evident.

You are saying everything is not about deen when the entire thread is about Islam and the deviant was praising atheists in context of debating Muslims no one was talking about plumbing?

When you said “Everything IS religious and Muslims do see everything through the lens Islam.” I thought you was being literal.

Here is the part that might shock you… Sometimes Muslims may be unsuccessful in explaining their beliefs when it comes to religion.

Same way i would fail in a debate about flat earth even if i have the standard position that scientific research has unanimously agreed for centuries.

May Allah SWT guide you and me and all the sincere. Have a good night, assalamu alaikum.

Wa ʿalaykumu s-salam

 

[cooli3o]

If @cooli3o thinks shariah is outdated thats up to him. I also held such beliefs however i changed my views overtime.

I don't believe that he is misrepresnting my views, I believe the shariah is applied in a specific time and place, and since our society has changed so much, we need to see if the conditions to apply the shariah hudood or certain rulings apply
and btw, all throughout Islamic history, there has been argument and dispute and ikhtilaaf amongst the scholars about when to apply shareeah and how. Because applying a certain law has implications and effects.
the simplest way to argue this is umar ibnul khattab removed the punishment for theft due to the poverty of his people, now if a person looked over islamic texts without any insight or a teacher, he would think this hudood would be applied unrestricted, but a real Aalim, would understand the objective behind the hudood, and then see if it applies, during the poverty of his ppl, Umar ibnul khataab RA saw that the hudood shouldnt be applied, as people needed to steal sometimes to survive, therefore punishing him wouldnt be fair nor would it deter people from stealing as they need to
we also see how Umar ibnul khattab changed the ruling on talaq, and all thorughout Islamic hitoury scholars have taken different opinions due to changing circumstances

my main argument was, murtads, were executed during the beginning of Islam could have been for a different reason than we think, this is because, the way they lived in the past, religion is part of your nationality, and going against Islam is basically declaring war on the religion and your people, and setting up divide, and then potentially killing. as we can see, during the khaleefah of abu bakr RA, he went to war with the people who refused to give zakah, they went to war with the munaafiqs and after umar ibnul khattab RA their was constant fighting, until the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasalams grandsons died in battle.
Now when you see this, you see, when the Munafiqoon amognst the companions came out, they always spread shirk and fasaad and bloodshed throughout the earth, by seperating from the main Muslim group, either by shirk or alse beliefs, they are making a direct attack agaisnt Islam and the Muslim community.
but we also see cases, where non-muslims, lived in a seperate land to Muslims but in the same country, so the Muslims and christians lived under the same rule, but seperate societies, we see alot like this, so we see, Muslims have always been living amognst or near ppl of shirk, we also see dhimmis in the muslim lands, so the question is, if shirk was such a fitna for Muslims that we have to murder them, then why allow dhimmis? why allow Muslims to lvie near lands of mushrikeen, why allow Muslims to intermingle with non-muslims for sake of buisness education etc.. if shirk is that much of a fitna
this is just one part of my argument, but the point is, in the past munaafiqoon saught to destroy the Islamic community when they apostated, instead of just keeping silent or moving lands, or whatever, nowadays, we have to look at our countries, is someone apostating in a so called Muslim country opposing the government and Islamic society? or are they just living their own life away from the Muslims and saying they don't believe.

 

[Internet Nomad]

I don't believe that he is misrepresnting my views, I believe the shariah is applied in a specific time and place, and since our society has changed so much, we need to see if the conditions to apply the shariah hudood or certain rulings apply
and btw, all throughout Islamic history, there has been argument and dispute and ikhtilaaf amongst the scholars about when to apply shareeah and how. Because applying a certain law has implications and effects.
the simplest way to argue this is umar ibnul khattab removed the punishment for theft due to the poverty of his people, now if a person looked over islamic texts without any insight or a teacher, he would think this hudood would be applied unrestricted, but a real Aalim, would understand the objective behind the hudood, and then see if it applies, during the poverty of his ppl, Umar ibnul khataab RA saw that the hudood shouldnt be applied, as people needed to steal sometimes to survive, therefore punishing him wouldnt be fair nor would it deter people from stealing as they need to
we also see how Umar ibnul khattab changed the ruling on talaq, and all thorughout Islamic hitoury scholars have taken different opinions due to changing circumstances

my main argument was, murtads, were executed during the beginning of Islam could have been for a different reason than we think, this is because, the way they lived in the past, religion is part of your nationality, and going against Islam is basically declaring war on the religion and your people, and setting up divide, and then potentially killing. as we can see, during the khaleefah of abu bakr RA, he went to war with the people who refused to give zakah, they went to war with the munaafiqs and after umar ibnul khattab RA their was constant fighting, until the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasalams grandsons died in battle.
Now when you see this, you see, when the Munafiqoon amognst the companions came out, they always spread shirk and fasaad and bloodshed throughout the earth, by seperating from the main Muslim group, either by shirk or alse beliefs, they are making a direct attack agaisnt Islam and the Muslim community.
but we also see cases, where non-muslims, lived in a seperate land to Muslims but in the same country, so the Muslims and christians lived under the same rule, but seperate societies, we see alot like this, so we see, Muslims have always been living amognst or near ppl of shirk, we also see dhimmis in the muslim lands, so the question is, if shirk was such a fitna for Muslims that we have to murder them, then why allow dhimmis? why allow Muslims to lvie near lands of mushrikeen, why allow Muslims to intermingle with non-muslims for sake of buisness education etc.. if shirk is that much of a fitna
this is just one part of my argument, but the point is, in the past munaafiqoon saught to destroy the Islamic community when they apostated, instead of just keeping silent or moving lands, or whatever, nowadays, we have to look at our countries, is someone apostating in a so called Muslim country opposing the government and Islamic society? or are they just living their own life away from the Muslims and saying they don't believe.

The rule of hudd for apostate can be debated by scholars and not laymen on Somalispot.

However i still believe that people who try and draw people away from islam should get the huded.

Think about the crime they are doing they are trying to lure people into a enternal hellfire. That would need a severe punishment imo.

 

[cooli3o]

The rule of hudd for apostate can be debated by scholars and not laymen on Somalispot.

yes. thats why I am not debating it, but amusee, if any person o knowledge debates it, he calls them a deviant, so I am just informing him of the position, whether i am right or wrong allahu alam, but Islam isn't black and white

However i still believe that people who try and draw people away from islam should get the huded.

the thing is being an apostate doesnt equal drawing ppl away from Islam

 

[Internet Nomad]

yes. thats why I am not debating it, but amusee, if any person o knowledge debates it, he calls them a deviant, so I am just informing him of the position, whether i am right or wrong allahu alam, but Islam isn't black and white

Yes I understand they tend to listen to a few contriversal imams and construct their whole world view from that and anyone to say anything different or even think of different possibilities they would get ostracised or even worse punished.

the thing is being an apostate doesnt equal drawing ppl away from Islam

Do you think even if the punishment was to change from the death penalty but in replace it with a different punishment like they have to live within a dhimmi. It would be an okay alternative? I just dont think something as large as leaving the deen should get a slap on the wrist.

 

[cooli3o]

Yes I understand they tend to listen to a few contriversal imams and construct their whole world view from that and anyone to say anything different or even think of different possibilities they would get ostracised or even worse punished.

Do you think even if the punishment was to change from the death penalty but in replace it with a different punishment like they have to live within a dhimmi. It would be an okay alternative? I just dont think something as large as leaving the deen should get a slap on the wrist.

Allah knows best but I believe if they leave the deen they should be made to leave the Muslim lands to live somewhere else. book them a plane ticket

 

[Internet Nomad]

Allah knows best but I believe if they leave the deen they should be made to leave the Muslim lands to live somewhere else. book them a plane ticket

Ngl thats a good option but i think it will only create a resentful diaspora who are cucking themselves to cadaan people to be accepted by shitting on islam for them.

 

[cooli3o]

Ngl thats a good option but i think it will only create a resentful diaspora who are cucking themselves to cadaan people to be accepted by shitting on islam for them.

who cares. there is a concern here though, if the non muslims move to Muslim lands, they will reveal the secrets of the Muslims, for example if he worked for the government or science or whatever, and the muslims ahve technology they want to keep secret, what to do with this apostate?
its interesting because its not simple on what to do

 

[Internet Nomad]

who cares. there is a concern here though, if the non muslims move to Muslim lands, they will reveal the secrets of the Muslims, for example if he worked for the government or science or whatever, and the muslims ahve technology they want to keep secret, what to do with this apostate?
its interesting because its not simple on what to do

Those with confidential information cannot leave but those without confidential information can.

 

[cooli3o]

Those with confidential information cannot leave but those without confidential information can.

yh. that sounds good.
also, in an ideal islamic society, if we actually followed the religion, ppl would be more happier in muslim lands in the long term. if u think about it, Islam is very concentrated on family, tight knit communities, with generosity charity, being merciful etc.. having your own wealth and property and being protected from oppression, I think ppl would be happy in a proper Islamic society

ofc there are certain things like, women cannot travel without a mahram, in the past that wouldnt be a problem, since they wouldnt travel much and if they did it would be particularly long and you would always want to be accompanied by people, so women wouldnt see it as a burden.
now travel is so easy convenient and tbh needed it would make women feel restricted, they cant even leave their city without a mahram.there is other stuff like this, i guess if u were an exmuslim u would hate living like this, and as a muslim women it wold be difficult but u would be patient

 

[Internet Nomad]

yh. that sounds good.
also, in an ideal islamic society, if we actually followed the religion, ppl would be more happier in muslim lands in the long term. if u think about it, Islam is very concentrated on family, tight knit communities, with generosity charity, being merciful etc.. having your own wealth and property and being protected from oppression, I think ppl would be happy in a proper Islamic society

ofc there are certain things like, women cannot travel without a mahram, in the past that wouldnt be a problem, since they wouldnt travel much and if they did it would be particularly long and you would always want to be accompanied by people, so women wouldnt see it as a burden.
now travel is so easy convenient and tbh needed it would make women feel restricted, they cant even leave their city without a mahram.there is other stuff like this, i guess if u were an exmuslim u would hate living like this, and as a muslim women it wold be difficult but u would be patient

Tbh traveling is different to going around your own city which in modern ages is quick. I dont think going to the shops is considered “travel

Also you have to understand the context when this Hadith happened. There were thieves hanging around for travellers to rob. Nowadays in safe nations that risk is almost zero. I would understand the Hadith working for a woman travelling to a dangerous place.

However don’t take anything i said as fact because it would be up to scholars who understand Hadith much better than me to make the laws.

 

[Hamzza]

The rule of hudd for apostate can be debated by scholars and not laymen on Somalispot.

However i still believe that people who try and draw people away from islam should get the huded.

Think about the crime they are doing they are trying to lure people into a enternal hellfire. That would need a severe punishment imo.

It cannot be debated

No one has ever debated

Devine laws are not up for discussions

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/apostasy-in-islam.154766/

 

[Internet Nomad]

It cannot be debated

No one has ever debated

Devine laws are not up for discussions

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/apostasy-in-islam.154766/

If you say so sheikh