ResearchGate: Beja and Cushitic Languages in Middle Egyptian Texts. Nile Cushitic is East Cushitic

[TheLand]

It's kind of weird to think that if the Egyptian speakers hadn't encroached upon and usurped the prior EC speakers, an East Cushitic language would have been among the earliest two recorded languages in Human history alongside Sumerian.

That’s incredible and sad at the same time. I can already imagine the amount of kibir we would have had if that was the case. Does that also mean we probably wouldn’t have moved south to Somalia?

 

[Shimbiris]

That’s incredible and sad at the same time. I can already imagine the amount of kibir we would have had if that was the case. Does that also mean we probably wouldn’t have moved south to Somalia?

I think the Cushites in Egypt just stayed there and got absorbed. But who knows how many may have been pushed south. But it does seem apparent that the old original AA trio after Omotic left early were Cushitic-Semitic-Berber that appear to form a node. Semito-Berber then split and further split from each other with one going east and the other West and partly staying put perhaps whilst Cushitic remained until it was absorbed by the younger Egyptian branch.

To be honest, it's very blatant that Pre-dynastic and early Dynastic Egyptians are our forebears. Study Egyptian Y-DNA enough and you'll be shook at all the E-M78s, E-V22 (dominant Saho subclade) and so on.

These guys were Horners' paternal forebears and from looking at the old craniofacial studies and how nearly identical Somalis look to the Naqadan samples, I'd say all the "Natufian" and "IBM" we show in G25 is pretty much Pre-Egyptian speaking Egyptians who intermixed heavily with likely Nilo-Saharans in Sudan then came down to the Horn in waves.

 

[Maakhri2024]

@Araabi @Shimbiris I guess you guys didn’t fully read through this document. One of the names of the women listed on the sarcophagus is speculated to be related to the cushitic word ‘culus’(heavy). It reminded me of the name ‘Culusow’ and I could not stop laughing

The cushitic / Somali word (culus علس ) is related to Hebrew word עמס (camas عمس ) .
L ↔ M ,
ʿls (cls ) ↔ ʿms (cms ) .
ʿms ( ع-م-س ) =ʿls ( ع-ل-س ) .

hebrew word עמס means : (noun) : load , burden .
(verb) :to load, carry, to carry a load .

Camoos the prophet ( عاموس النبي ) = culus / Culusow .

Amos (prophet) = Camoos the prophet​

Amos (/ˈeɪməs/; Hebrew: עָמוֹס ( camoos عاموس) – ʿĀmōs) was one of the Twelve Minor Prophets of the Hebrew Bible and Christian Old Testament.

 

[Midas]

I think the Cushites in Egypt just stayed there and got absorbed. But who knows how many may have been pushed south. But it does seem apparent that the old original AA trio after Omotic left early were Cushitic-Semitic-Berber that appear to form a node. Semito-Berber then split and further split from each other with one going east and the other West and partly staying put perhaps whilst Cushitic remained until it was absorbed by the younger Egyptian branch.

To be honest, it's very blatant that Pre-dynastic and early Dynastic Egyptians are our forebears. Study Egyptian Y-DNA enough and you'll be shook at all the E-M78s, E-V22 (dominant Saho subclade) and so on.

These guys were Horners' paternal forebears and from looking at the old craniofacial studies and how nearly identical Somalis look to the Naqadan samples, I'd say all the "Natufian" and "IBM" we show in G25 is pretty much Pre-Egyptian speaking Egyptians who intermixed heavily with likely Nilo-Saharans in Sudan then came down to the Horn in waves.

One thing that's confused me about the Nilo-Saharan component is that Shouldn't we have some west african ancestry then ? Since all Nilo-Saharan seem to have a west african component?

 

[Maakhri2024]

@Shimbiris @Maakhri2024 Interestingly, one of the other names mentioned in this document has a Cushitic root of khn or kahan as they speculate. Apparently it means to love. They say it is not in the east cushitic branch but the speculated forms of it contains a name that is strikingly similar to the Somali name ‘Kaahin’. I always wondered what it meant, and perhaps this is a possible answer.

I think the word ( khn or kaahin) is related to animal sacrifice / slaughtering animals .
h ↔ w ,
khn ↔ kwn ,
kaahin ↔ kawaanle .
q ↔ k ,
y ↔ h ,
khn ↔ kwn are related to the somali word : qal (qalay ) or the somali word gooy / gooyin .

gooy verb means: to cut (down ~ off ~ up) .

A priest ( kaahin / kawaanle ) is a person who slaughters and sacrifices animals to the god .

kawaan verb. butcher , cut up (an animal),
kawaanle noun. butcher

 

[Maakhri2024]

For some strange reason these Cushites seemed to have high status at that time in Egypt too, not just Medjai ‘desert police’

Do you remember the prophet Moses when he escaped from Egypt after killing the Egyptian man, he fled east to the land of the nomads called
Midian / Midyan ( Medjai ) , where Moses spent forty years and married a woman from this nomadic people of Midian / Midyan ( Medjai ) !!!!

When Moses first came to the land of this nomadic people of Midian/Midyan, he encountered the girls of Shuaib / Jethro waiting for their turn to water their flocks after the shepherds finished their turn to water their flocks, then Moses helped the girls to water their flocks.

 

[NidarNidar]

One thing that's confused me about the Nilo-Saharan component is that Shouldn't we have some west african ancestry then ? Since all Nilo-Saharan seem to have a west african component?

It was a splinter group, there was nothing as Nilotes back then, the EA hg component was a splinter group that probably lived alongside the Nile as hunter-gathers, E-V12(E-V32)/E-V22 Cushites heavily intermarried with them, this is why you'll find A/B within cushites as some of the men were absorbed, while pre-dynastic Egyptian married more levant women.

There is some dodgy selective sampling going on in those digs in Egypt, the older wall reliefs clearly show people who look Cushitic, this was probably due to early mixing between groups but as time went by, you can see the levant influence show through the maternal line.

 

[Midas]

It was a splinter group, there was nothing as Nilotes back then, the EA hg component was a splinter group that probably lived alongside the Nile as hunter-gathers, E-V12(E-V32)/E-V22 Cushites heavily intermarried with them, this is why you'll find A/B within cushites as some of the men were absorbed, while pre-dynastic Egyptian married more levant women.

There is some dodgy selective sampling going on in those digs in Egypt, the older wall reliefs clearly show people who look Cushitic, this was probably due to early mixing between groups but as time went by, you can see the levant influence show through the maternal line.

Yeah it's obvious that there are discrepancies in the sampling. I mean proto semetic dates back to 4500 b.c . People in the Levant and arabia were clearly speaking something before semetic. Yet all of them were absorbed and no traces remain.

But on the EA hunter gathers . the fact that they have no west african ancestry means that in late predynastic/early dynastic eygpt maybe around 3000 b.c . West african ancestry hadn't entered the nile Valley. But that isn't that long ago in the grand scheme of things consider how far back proto nioltiic and our splinter group spilt from ancestral east african. It seems odd that even as recently as 3000 b.c that west african ancestry wasn't present in the region.

 

[Shimbiris]

One thing that's confused me about the Nilo-Saharan component is that Shouldn't we have some west african ancestry then ? Since all Nilo-Saharan seem to have a west african component?

Why are you assuming that Nilo-Saharans today would be identical genetically to NS people from like 5,000-10,000ybp? Are you identical to Cushites from that time period? To be honest, the amount of Yoruba-like admixture in Dinkas isn't even that high in the big scheme things. Not even above 1/4th of their ancestry or even at 1/4th, if I'm not mistaken. Even less if you look at groups like the Gumuz.

And contrary to @NidarNidar, I think we probably really are descended from NS speakers simply because it's absolutely clear NS speakers were deep into Sudan and making contact with Cushites as far back 9,000 years ago. Ehret firmly established that even before the split with NC, Cushites were making contact with Saharan speakers. I think it's perfectly possible that Sudan was always an NS-Cushitic dancing ground and that they're the source of our dominant non-Eurasian component and our Y-DNA A-M13 as well most of our L markers.

The idea that our SSA comes from some splinter HG group makes little sense. Look at how low Mota type ancestry is among modern Cushites and Ethiosemites:


That's what likely would have happened if we were descended from Sudanese HGs, not being as much as 50% or more Dinka-like. Our SSA ancestors were probably NS speaking pastoralists themselves, hence why they were able to demographically compete with Cushites and eventually even linguistically overtake them in Upper Nubia as well as Lower Nubia to some extent in time.

If they were HGs our pastoral and agro-pastoral ancestors would have likely outnumbered them so much that we'd likely be overwhelmingly MENA today.