Sabean theory

[Fez]

Tigrayan & Tigrinya history 100%. I heard Amharas weren't even majority Christian until the 13th century

Amharas have very limited history of their own so try steal others. They have a track record of we wuzzing and hoteping both Somali and Eritrean history

 

[Idilinaa]

They didn’t even know how to weave clothes until recently choosing instead to wear raw animal skins and the Solomonic Emperors were living in mudhuts until the 17th century when the Portuguese were embarrassed for them and convinced the king to live in a stone hut instead. There’s honestly nothing impressive or noteworthy about Habesha “civilization” after Axum.

And it's not because they were incapable , it's them holding themselves back

You start to realize that this is the case as well when this extends to the 19th century after the portuguese , armenians and other Europeans tried to open them up to other things they resisted it

After Somalis fell to invasions/disruptions , political fracture, coastal bombardments and plagues (External Arab sources and internal ones speak on the plague sweeping the country, started during the time of Emir Nur).

We still maintained as the most enterprising people in the region in our reduced state.

And the capital Harar survived because it was situated away from the coast in the interior near a self sustaining fertile land between upper Shabelle river tributaries between major trade routes and surrounded itself by a wall for protection.

French Voyage visitor in 1814 describes the landscape in the Horn: moving on from Axum and Gondar he says:

''But busiest and most important commercial route is the one which links the province of efat(Awat)-Argouba(Awgoba) to Harar, the central city of the country of Adel, inhabited by Saumalis(Somalis), and opens to the production of southern Abyssinia the maritime outlet of Barbara, through which they are exported from Africa''

The population of Harar is without a doubt the most industrious in East Africa, the one whose skills have been applied to commerce with the most success: the inhabitants of Harrar are even the real factors in the commerce of the part of Africa; they penetrate far''

They also basically kept on cosplaying as pretend emperors, like their chronicles are epic fiction pieces. Literally, its what recent researchers have called them, like made up events that did not happen.

And they kept on cosplaying so much that people weren't buying it anymore in the 20th century

They glorified falling victim to and struggling against a small group of Somalis housed in garrison like cities/towns basically bordering them relocated from a foreign land, doing quick raids against a large population and then doubling back to their fortified settlements.

The raw meat eating , not lighting fire to cook meat to alert them to their campsite, shows you how tormented they were by the raids and how fearful they was. They were uprooted in every sense and created a culture around it, like moving around in temporary encampments on high alert, dietary food taboos etc

Their xenophobia, hatred for Muslims/Somalis stems from real genuine fear of them and imagining their worst nightmares coming alive, you see this constantly in their art work and writings.
For example:

 

[Midas]

I don't want to hate on them too much. But what do intellectuals in ethiopia talk about ? They obviously publish some historical stuff in their universities like idinlaa posted before. But is there a national discourse? They obviously discuss ethnic conflict like we discuss qabil conflict. But what about beyond that? This is honestly something I've been trying to look into, but there is nothing in English, and I don't speak or read amharic. Somalis have poetry, and we write books about dhaqan and sugaan. What is the ethiopian equivalent?

 

[EritreanPost_]

Amharas have very limited history of their own so try steal others. They have a track record of we wuzzing and hoteping both Somali and Eritrean history

Tigre history
Beja history
Tigrinya history
And less Tigrayan

Tigre has the most similarities with geez from all Semitic languages.

Sahos lived in Adulis where the adulis axumite kingdom started

beja too.

and Tigrinya speakers also had a lot to do

 

[Khaemwaset]

''He left his country on the African coast (bar al-agam)''

It's even made more obvious by the fact that our Arab neighbors kept calling Zayla and basically the Somali coast in general ''Bar-Al Ajam''(Country of Non-Arabs).

Yes and some people, especially whites, will tell you Somalia was ruled by Arab dynasties.

 

[Khaemwaset]

I don't want to hate on them too much. But what do intellectuals in ethiopia talk about ? They obviously publish some historical stuff in their universities like idinlaa posted before. But is there a national discourse? They obviously discuss ethnic conflict like we discuss qabil conflict. But what about beyond that? This is honestly something I've been trying to look into, but there is nothing in English, and I don't speak or read amharic. Somalis have poetry, and we write books about dhaqan and sugaan. What is the ethiopian equivalent?

They have Christian chants? Idk, the only Institution in ethiopia that were literate was the orthodox church. They don't write down or even maintain lineages like we do.

Ethiopia is not a national identity it's a bunch of different people mashed together. They really have little in common that's why all they fight about is ethnic claims

 

[Idilinaa]

I don't want to hate on them too much. But what do intellectuals in ethiopia talk about ? They obviously publish some historical stuff in their universities like idinlaa posted before. But is there a national discourse? They obviously discuss ethnic conflict like we discuss qabil conflict. But what about beyond that? This is honestly something I've been trying to look into, but there is nothing in English, and I don't speak or read amharic. Somalis have poetry, and we write books about dhaqan and sugaan. What is the ethiopian equivalent?

They discuss the formulation of new forms of STD's and intestinal parasites

 

[Aseer]

They discuss the formulation of new forms of STD's and intestinal parasites

When did you become so extremist and anti ethiopian? I thought you were all abot HOAF "equality"

 

[Midas]

They have Christian chants? Idk, the only Institution in ethiopia that were literate was the orthodox church. They don't write down or even maintain lineages like we do.

Ethiopia is not a national identity it's a bunch of different people mashed together. They really have little in common that's why all they fight about is ethnic claims

Yeah I feel like it's probably a combination of the fragmentation and the fact that wether it's selassies govt or the derg or even the tplf there was always strict censorship.

 

[Midas]

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Khaemwaset]

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Yeah Somalis seem to have an actual national identity, albeit very fractured into different groups who fight about certain ideas

 

[Idilinaa]

When did you become so extremist and anti ethiopian? I thought you were all abot HOAF "equality"

No i am joking. I admit in poor taste. It wasn't something i thought of, but something i heard someone else say. sorry, i wont go there anymore.

But about the intestinal parasite thing though which is real , made me ponder on the historical merit behind uncooked meat tradition. I was a bit doubtful about the tradition in the beginning since they trace it to the 16th century and say it's because of their Muslim armies pursuers wouldn't detect the smoke.

But Al-Omari mentions them to eat it raw in the 14th century. But seeing as they literally shaped by other dietary taboos to contradict Muslim ways of life, the rational for it might be true but going back further.

It's insane to think back on how much of their attitudes and ways was shaped by their reaction to Muslims and/or Somalis nearby them. I joke little bit but we might have been the cause of it now looking back. Their hatred manifested itself from fear and them in full on fight for survival.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Somalia was a hub for scholarship and Somali scholars even during the 1800s and 1900s published many different publications discussing and debating the times they lived, fate of their society, the ummah etc . Different type of polemics.

And couple that with a strong tradition of poetic discourse.

With that said, It might also have to do with the fact Somalis a spread out like a connected nation while other Africans are divided into small group of disconnected tribes that are just more localized in nature and so their discourse might just be more localized. So you might have to look up their tribal identities and not the country which are recent colonial creations.

Yes and some people, especially whites, will tell you Somalia was ruled by Arab dynasties.

Just say I'm Lewis and Cerrulli, who both are not historians. Don't say whites. Lots of people believe otherwise, its clear if you apply historical methodology.

I'm Lewis even thinks Majerteen Sultanate was an arab dynasty. It's not even something you need to speculate on because it's more contemporary , we can clearly see they are Somali and there is no gap in our knowledge.

 

[NidarNidar]

When did you become so extremist and anti ethiopian? I thought you were all abot HOAF "equality"

Let her cook, I will question any Somalis loyalty if they have anything good to say about Ethiopia, not it's people.

The difference between us and the Ethiopian society is our two different origins, we are primely agropastoralists and they are sedentary farmers, Agropastoralists often have a higher trust culture compared to them due to several distinctive aspects of our lifestyle and economic practices.

Agropastoralists often practice seasonal mobility, moving herds between grazing land, which requires trust in neighbouring communities, we have developed our unique system of law called xeer to reduce conflict. When moving animals or sharing common grazing areas, agropastoralists rely on the hospitality and cooperation of other groups(clans) in contrast sedentary farmers are more stationary and often have less need for such extensive networks, and are often untrusting of foreigners.

Agropastoralists depend on a larger network of relations across long stretches of land, which requires them to share grazing land, and provide mutual aid during droughts and crop failures, trust is vital in receiving trust, including giving each other protection against raids, which fosters a broader sense of community.

Grazing land and water is a limited resources in the hot climate of Somalia, and this requires the sharing of these resources and the management of it, mismanagement could be the death of thousands of people, having trust in your neighbours allows risk mitigation and provides a social safety net, I’ve never seen a homeless orphan Somali child back home, someone takes them in, personally my grandmother raised 3 kids that were not her own, 1 unrelated to her.

The wealth of agropastoralists is linked to their livestock, since everything they own is in their camels, goats or sheep, they need to maintain strong familial links, due to raiding being a common issue, building alliances to protect each other against external threats, and develop negotiation skills required to resolve conflicts over resources.

Our background allowed us to become excellent traders, and our failures in politics can be attributed to external factors, since in an ideal world, Somalis would fit better being ruled by regional states with more autonomy.

 

[The Macrobian]

I have a theory that the madhibaan tunaal and Yibir aswell as dir and isaaq being descendants of axumites and sabaeans and Himyarites.

 

[Idilinaa]

Let her cook, I will question any Somalis loyalty if they have anything good to say about Ethiopia, not it's people.

I am usually critical of states and leadership policies, but i don't bash a group or the people and see them separate from it.

I don't really think the fall off has to do with solely do with culture between Axum/Dm't and medieval/modern Ethiopia . But rather policies and choices shaped by their leadership/state, they kept their own people back.

 

[NidarNidar]

I have a theory that the madhibaan tunaal and Yibir aswell as dir and isaaq being descendants of axumites and sabaeans and Himyarites.

Timelines and haplogroups don't match, Axumites are primarily J1 and Dir is T-L208(we have our own specific subclade) and the J1 that travelled with us is different than the one found in Ethiopia.

@The alchemist said it best, it was a family group that arrived in 2nd to 1st century BC or earlier and intermarried with locals.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

Timelines and haplogroups don't match, Axumites are primarily J1 and Dir is T-L208(we have our own specific subclade) and the J1 that travelled with us is different than the one found in Ethiopia.

@The alchemist said it best, it was a family group that arrived in 2nd to 1st century BC or earlier and intermarried with locals.

Do we know the common haplogroups the ancient Axumites carried?

 

[Idilinaa]

I am usually critical of states and leadership policies, but i don't bash a group or the people and see them separate from it.

I don't really think the fall off has to do with solely do with culture between Axum/Dm't and medieval/modern Ethiopia . But rather policies and choices shaped by their leadership/state, they kept their own people back.

Walaalyaal @Aseer @NidarNidar @Emir of Zayla @Khaemwaset i am also starting think a lot of those epic fiction chronicles must be some psychological way of shielding themselves from a humiliating reality handed to them by the Muslims and Somalis. Who was quite literally decimating them, slave raiding them and dominating the region in every way possible etc.

Why would anyone create fiction pieces like this and pretend it was real history otherwise.
The account of the wars of King ʿAmda Ṣeyon against the Islamic sultanates, an epic fiction of the 15th century

Le récit des guerres du roi ʿAmda Ṣeyon contre les sultanats islami...

Tous les commencements sont difficiles.Chaïm Potok, Au Commencement, 1976 [2019]. Le récit des guerres menées par le roi ʿAmda Ṣeyon contre les souverains de l’Ifāt et, plus globalement, contre les...

journals.openedition.org

We are therefore faced with two opposing memories: on the one hand, the image of a conquering Christian sovereign, repeatedly confronting all the Muslim countries, transmitted by a single text, that of the wars of ʿAmda Ṣeyon; On the Muslim side, neither the endogenous texts nor those coming from the Islamic world make the slightest reference to these events. How can this be explained?

When i first learned about it, i was filled with condemnation, now i am a lil bit sympathetic

And the Gelawedos chronicle also just being fiction on the same level after a humiliating defeat by Emir Nur with his much smaller army. They reversed the happening in their own minds.

' The area of Somalia towards the Indian Ocean must have been known to the Abyssinians only through news brought by Muslim traders'' that makes sense.

King Claudius, is Latin rendering of his name? Anyways delusional claims in that chronicle, even the Portuguese that was there called it fiction and made up: Pedro Paez review of the Chronicles of Gelawdewos:

Pedro Páez's History of Ethiopia, 1622 - Partie 2 - Page 17​

''Not only did Emperor Claudio not do those things in [Chronicle) , Kingdom of Adel, but he never went there in his life. Nor did the Moors lose so much with Granh's defeat and death that they could not have defended themselves very well, had he gone there. Rather, the Moor who succeeded Granh as guazir silicet ''governor'' came from there with an army against Emperor Claudio a few years later and on giving battle, defeated and killed him not very far from where he had his court, as everyone says says and his history recounts''

Not only that Emir Nur defeated the Emperor with a much much smaller army as well:'

'' Owed God for the remarkable victory that He had given him...because his army had been incomparably smaller than the emperor''

The Ethiopian chronicles are filled with most times propaganda glorifying the reign of their Kings and trying to hide their humiliating defeats and claiming to reach Muslim areas they have never been to in their life but that's a topic for a another time or a thread.

@Midas was right , the Amhara/Ethiopians mastered the art of propaganda and they had white christian historians help them push it and translate it in our modern times.

Offering legitimacy to propaganda born out of a coping mechanism did not thing to move them forward to redress reality.

I believe forming an accurate concize reading of history and what transpired and how it affected all parties, is what i believe is going to be the anti-dote to the ''Horn of jahanam'' @Yami described.

When i said this a few days ago to Midas , now i know what the reasons for this is:

Whats even more funny about it, other nations/societies on earth study their past and reject periods in their history where they experience regression/setbacks etc, Europeans ''Dark Ages'', Arabs/Muslims ''Jahiliya''(Age of Ignorance) , China ''Century of Humiliation'' and Latin America/Japan ''The Lost Decade/s'' and try to progress passed it .

Ethiopia is one of only nations that looks at their backwardness and regression with rose coloured lenses, and continued on the same path for 1400 years, don't even contemplate on what went wrong, or how to fix it and make lies up. So it's not even propaganda that helps them.

In the next coming decades Ethiopia will shatter into pieces and then people are going to interrogate it , ask questions and all the myths they built up will lay bare.

 

[DivineMartial]

They discuss the formulation of new forms of STD's and intestinal parasites

Yaa Allah how long ago is it since I teared up this good?

 

[Midas]

Walaalyaal @Aseer @NidarNidar @Emir of Zayla @Khaemwaset i am also starting think a lot of those epic fiction chronicles must be some psychological way of shielding themselves from a humiliating reality handed to them by the Muslims and Somalis. Who was quite literally decimating them, slave raiding them and dominating the region in every way possible etc.

Why would anyone create fiction pieces like this and pretend it was real history otherwise.
The account of the wars of King ʿAmda Ṣeyon against the Islamic sultanates, an epic fiction of the 15th century

Le récit des guerres du roi ʿAmda Ṣeyon contre les sultanats islami...

Tous les commencements sont difficiles.Chaïm Potok, Au Commencement, 1976 [2019]. Le récit des guerres menées par le roi ʿAmda Ṣeyon contre les souverains de l’Ifāt et, plus globalement, contre les...

journals.openedition.org

When i first learned about it, i was filled with condemnation, now i am a lil bit sympathetic

And the Gelawedos chronicle also just being fiction on the same level after a humiliating defeat by Emir Nur with his much smaller army. They reversed the happening in their own minds.



@Midas was right , the Amhara/Ethiopians mastered the art of propaganda and they had white christian historians help them push it and translate it in our modern times.

Offering legitimacy to propaganda born out of a coping mechanism did not thing to move them forward to redress reality.

I believe forming an accurate concize reading of history and what transpired and how it affected all parties, is what i believe is going to be the anti-dote to the ''Horn of jahanam'' @Yami described.

When i said this a few days ago to Midas , now i know what the reasons for this is:

Yeah it's incredible how it seems only now are they taking a crtical lens to the Ethiopian chronicles. I've also noticed the ones that you post that seem more critical are translations from the French and not something published in English. Beyond that it's also weird how I don't see an intrest in history in ethiopians or their diaspora.