Saudi Arabia Hands Somalia Over to Iran

[Geeljire]

You are an absolute idiot if you think there isn't any xeer in the south and that it isn't used. Stop reading somalilander propaganda.

No I'm blaming the geeljire lifestyle, which does not fit into the modern world. You can take a look at our oromo neighbours down south the borana for example, these people are at each other's throats. The same is true in nomadic societies in west Africa.

its not propaganda its common knowledge.

The Success of Clan Governance in Somalia: Beyond Failed State Discourse By: Abdullahi M. Cawsey
http://somalithinktank.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Latest-1.pdf

oh i get it this is not about modernization which is a technological state and has zero ethical considerations in its construction. But more to do with us not Following the Wests Values , and systems.

They at eachothers throat because stupid self loathing fucks like you are trying to impose systems of governance incompatible with their social structure.

modernity should never mean the reatreat of culture and vice--a-versa

 

[Bahal]

Yo scholars is orientalists pattin you on the hand for yo "ingenious" system that means y'all will always be divided and sub divided into tiny ass groups of people. Why da f*ck do 15 million Somalis need to be decentralised? My state got more people than all Somalis shit breh there's cities wit 20 million people.

This romanticisation of xeer and clans only keeps you weak af and at the mercy of strong united countries witout da schizophrenic system of governance you propose where every sub sub clan gotta reach consensus before doin anything.

We can keep xeer for decidin how many camels a nomad gotta give up for weddings and shit but it has no place in a modern state that needs strong decisive singleminded leadership.

 

[John Michael]

Yo scholars is orientalists pattin you on the hand for yo "ingenious" system that means y'all will always be divided and sub divided into tiny ass groups of people. Why da f*ck do 15 million Somalis need to be decentralised? My state got more people than all Somalis shit breh there's cities wit 20 million people.

This romanticisation of xeer and clans only keeps you weak af and at the mercy of strong united countries witout da schizophrenic system of governance you propose where every sub sub clan gotta reach consensus before doin anything.

We can keep xeer for decidin how many camels a nomad gotta give up for weddings and shit but it has no place in a modern state that needs strong decisive singleminded leadership.

He just quoted me more dumb qaldaan propaganda.

It's not even about being divided, most of this hate stems off petty water well fights. One day a dumb odey dhaqmed
Can stick his nose in the air and we're back in the same situation. It's not a stable way of life. I don't want f*ck all to do with it.

 

[Geeljire]

Yo scholars is orientalists pattin you on the hand for yo "ingenious" system that means y'all will always be divided and sub divided into tiny ass groups of people. Why da f*ck do 15 million Somalis need to be decentralised? My state got more people than all Somalis shit breh there's cities wit 20 million people.

This romanticisation of xeer and clans only keeps you weak af and at the mercy of strong united countries witout da schizophrenic system of governance you propose where every sub sub clan gotta reach consensus before doin anything.

We can keep xeer for decidin how many camels a nomad gotta give up for weddings and shit but it has no place in a modern state that needs strong decisive singleminded leadership.

Throwing around bunch of empty rethoric like ''Orientalists'' and ''Camels'' isnt going to undermine what im saying which has basis in reality and facts.

Let me key line what was the problem under a Centralized goverment during times Kacaan under Siad Barre which is the reason for the civil war.

The Main issue with Somalia/Somaliland is this climate of mistrust that came as a result of the civil war. The reason for the war and reason for Clan Federation beneath the surfice is not clan its more of a Conflict of resources and injustice.

1)Before the civil war people living north and far down south had to go to mogadishu to get what they need from housing,Education,passport and jobs. Somalis from various regions had these complaint about not going all the way to mogadishu to get these services but to recieve them locally.


2)So that fueled the present day insecurity of why they dont trust and object a central state cuz they associate it with unequal distrubution sharing of resources.
Another thing that they also associate unity and central state with is Authoritarian over rule excercizing over them that would give unequal power sharing.
Many who object a Centralized Governance demand genuine political participation. Hence why you will commonly hear '' i dont want Mogadishu authority to appoint a mayor for my town.

Reinforcing this mistrust against a centralized state is newly common practice to organize a political party somewhere and claim presidency over a given region.

This is the reality of Centralized Govt in Somalia and sick evil motherfuckers like you are bent on Trying to impose what crushed our native land and made us flee from it.

 

[Bahal]

Da fuq does this have to do with xeer?



Centralism don't mean siad barre



You can have equal distribution of resources in a centralised system witout clan states

 

[SOMACOON]

Lol @ governing ourselves.
Somalia is not longer an independent country. We are in the hands of foreigners.
Wheres the Mad Mullah of the 21st century eh? Nagu kala wada.
If Hassan Shikeh Mahamud is reelected, Somalia as a we know it shall cease to exist.

 

[Geeljire]

Da fuq does this have to do with xeer?

You dont even know what Xeer is Saaxiib and how its used under modern context both in Puntland and Somaliland. So spare me the bull.

Centralism don't mean siad barre

Modernization doesnt mean the West.

You can have equal distribution of resources in a centralised system witout clan states

Unequal political participation

Many people who support decentralization also demand genuine political participation. According to the findings of this study, Somalis want to elect their local and national representatives. This demand is not limited to the elites of one region or clan, or even one class (the elite). Rather, it is common to hear Somalis saying, “I do not want Mogadishu authority to appoint the mayor of my town or the governor of my region

Not in the somali context. What don't you understand.

 

[Inactive]

Somalia is doomed because of religion and Arab bootyclapping. You would be treated better in Somalia if you speak Arabic and are a hafiz than if you found the cure for tuberculosis or malaria or typhoid. @Kaafiye and other Somali think it's better to have a mosque in every block but only have 1 school in the entire town.

Let go of religion as well as the Arab bootyclapping and your quality of life will improve, your wealth will increase, you will become smarter, happier, healthier and you will see development.

Or you can continue with the status quo of poverty, war, orphan crisis, lack of institutions and being used by Xabashis and Kenyans.

It's up to you

 

[Kaafiye]

Somalia is doomed because of religion and Arab bootyclapping. You would be treated better in Somalia if you speak Arabic and are a hafiz than if you found the cure for tuberculosis or malaria or typhoid. @Kaafiye and other Somali think it's better to have a mosque in every block but only have 1 school in the entire town.

Let go of religion as well as the Arab bootyclapping and your quality of life will improve, your wealth will increase, you will become smarter, happier, healthier and you will see development.

Or you can continue with the status quo of poverty, war, orphan crisis, lack of institutions and being used by Xabashis and Kenyans.

It's up to you

So do you want to tell us why secular nations like Mozambique and Burundi are doing so poorly? Those countries aren't "Arab bootyclappers" either yet their quality of life is shit compared to most Muslim countries.

I literally just proved you wrong with just one example.

Wallahi you're fucking ridiculous. You don't even try to sound rational anymore. You have such a simple thought-process and there is absolutely zero nuance to your thinking. SMFH

 

[Inactive]

@Kaafiye, I don't even need to use Google to know Mozambique and Burundi are atleast 2/3rds Christian believers. They are also victims of ridiculous beliefs like the Somalis. Africans can be belivers but you people take it too seriously. Religion is best in small doses.

Somalia will never be like Scandinavia or Canada until they abandon religion or at least become lapsed. It puts them behind.

Kaafiye prefers the construction of the 1000th mosque in a small town over the construction of a second school. He is part of the problem.

 

[Kaafiye]

@Kaafiye, I don't even need to use Google to know Mozambique and Burundi are atleast 2/3rds Christian believers. They are also victims of ridiculous beliefs like the Somalis. Africans can be belivers but you people take it too seriously. Religion is best in small doses.

Somalia will never be like Scandinavia or Canada until they abandon religion or at least become lapsed. It puts them behind.

Kaafiye prefers the construction of the 1000th mosque in a small town over the construction of a second school. He is part of the problem.

Canada is still a majority Christian nation.

The United States is still majority-Christian and they achieved their superpower status in 1945----when well over 90% of the US population was comprised of practicing Christians.

Being a secular republic and having a country comprised of religious believers (Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc.) are not mutually exclusive.

But you don't even know that. Because you're too low-IQ to know that. Your thought process is so simplistic that you can't even fathom this thought.

Face it. You can't disprove what I said. If secularism is the gateway to prosperity, then I can easily list 50 secular countries that are doing terribly right now. Look at the quality of life in Burundi and I dare you to try and tell me that I ain't telling the truth.

 

[Inactive]

Burundians are majority Christian.

Canadians and Americans are lapsed Christians. They don't take it seriously. They approve gay marriage and have gay priests while Somalis hate gay marriage and disown their gay sons. They hate going to church while Somalis love going to the mosque (when people are looking). They diss Jesus and the Bible while Somalis will kill for Muhammad and kiss the Koran with their big wet af qalooc crusty fish lips.

You see the difference. Western Christians are not religious. They are Christian by name only but secular in belief. Most Canadians/Americans are really soft atheists but don't care to change their identity.

 

[Kaafiye]

Again, I have to reiterate:

The United States achieved superpower status although being a secular republic with a population that was over 90% Christian. They didn't become a superpower yesterday you idiot. This Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher stuff is a very recent phenomenon and is NOT typical of American history.

But you can't explain to me why America and Canada are so rich yet Burundi and Mozambique are so poor. All of these countries have secularism as a common denominator, yet their quality of life is vastly different.

Think about it. Sleep on it. Then get back to me. I know you're incapable of thinking complex thoughts but don't worry, I will teach you.

 

[Inactive]

For the third time Burundi and Mozambique are majority Christian nation. A believer nation. They praise Jesus.

Again, Western Christians are not real Christians but by name only even back then. They were not religious. They were secular. Separation of church and state was fought for since the 1800s in the U.S.

Americans are secular and have been secular for a long time.

Kaafiye I still have my ancient Blockbuster card lying around somewhere. That doesn't mean I rent from Blockbuster today. Westerners are the same. They aren't too bothered by completly erasing of their Christian roots just like I am not bothered enough to find my Blockbuster card lying around and cut it up and throw it in the trash.

 

[Jubba_Man]

@AbdiJohnson: The thing you and other secularists on here fail to realize is that Islam is the only thing that has ever united the diverse peoples in the Somali peninsula. The type of society you are advocating for, which is essentially an ultra-nationalist and godless Somalia, is a mythical construct that only exists in your tiny minds. You cannot use such ideas as nationalism and ethnic identity to unite a people who all believe they are distinct, unrelated, and very different from each other genetically and culturally. That Somalia will never ever rise, and only a mental midget would think otherwise given the current political climate and views of the people on the ground. The only cause a Darod, Hawiye, and Isaac would ever die for as brothers in arms is Islam. No one would ever die for such worthless ideals such as the preservation of the Somali ethnic group (which is a term that isn't even well defined or understood by the people in Somalia) or for the nonsense of "Somaliweyn".

Unfortunately, thanks to the efforts of Al-kabab, it is unlikely an Islamic government would ever find mainstream support among the people for the foreseeable future. That means the only thing the people will want and support are their federal qabil states and the eventual secession of these states and the balkanization of the country. As a proud promulgator of western values and secularism, shouldn't you be in favor of giving the people what they want?

 

[Bahal]

You dont even know what Xeer is Saaxiib and how its used under modern context both in Puntland and Somaliland. So spare me the bull.





Modernization doesnt mean the West.




Unequal political participation


Not in the somali context. What don't you understand.

Xeer is an outdated legal system that cannot function in any modern society that seeks to have its citizens loyal and accountable to the state and the state alone. You cannot seriously believe that in this day and age a council of unelected and uneducated elders sitting under an accacia tree is an adequate system of governance. The state alone should have the right to legislate and enforce said legislation. We cannot afford to have citizens with divided loyalties subject to the whims of their clan elders.

I'm well aware of SL's guurti system, I just think it further entrenches qabiil and the notion that politics and qabiil are inseparable.

When it comes to the centralism vs.federalism debate, I reiterate the fact that 15 million Somalis should have no need for a half dozen federal states. Centralism despite what you may believe does not preclude a representative government. For a country with a miniscule population and devastated society, a strong central government is a must.

 

[Geeljire]

Xeer is an outdated legal system that cannot function in any modern society that seeks to have its citizens loyal and accountable to the state and the state alone. You cannot seriously believe that in this day and age a council of unelected and uneducated elders sitting under an accacia tree is an adequate system of governance. The state alone should have the right to legislate and enforce said legislation. We cannot afford to have citizens with divided loyalties subject to the whims of their clan elders.

i see you just are still repeating the same suff that doesnt make any sense. Xeer is not outdated it is very much functioning and in use today. Modernity is technological state it does not explicly mean Western system. You can put Xeer in a modern Context like they have done in Puntland and Somaliland. Elders are elected as i see wether they are educated or not in the western sense is irrelevant. They are key part in the reconciliation process.

What they have done is balance modern Form of institutions with Traditional form of institutions. So of course their arre legislators and who enforce things.

''Camels'' and ''accaia tree'' are not used in todays society so quite it with your meaningless rethoric.

European colonialists subjected people in the Horn of Africa- Somalis-to modern state systems. Imposing the modern state system on Somalia was part of the process of colonization. In the post colonialism era, many African societies failed to comprehend and materialize the concept of the modern state. S

No shit. Because idiots frequently associate modenization with the west. wont even consider to bring their culture,system and laws in to a mondern context( Technologically enhance it).

I'm well aware of SL's guurti system, I just think it further entrenches qabiil and the notion that politics and qabiil are inseparable.

if you are a aware of it why are you quick to dimiss? its amazing that you think bunch of politicians in SL are running around trading camels in this modern era? ridicoulus!! Somalia is a clan based society and will always be a clan based society. So accept it!

When it comes to the centralism vs.federalism debate, I reiterate the fact that 15 million Somalis should have no need for a half dozen federal states. Centralism despite what you may believe does not preclude a representative government. For a country with a miniscule population and devastated society, a strong central government is a must

Centralism is incompatible with social structure of the somali people. You cannot impose a system of Governance that does not fit. Somalia needs a Decentralized form of governance and this has been sucssefully implemented in many parts of the word germany and china is a prime example of that.

 

[Jubba_Man]

Centralism is incompatible with social structure of the somali people. You cannot impose a system of Governance that does not fit. Somalia needs a Decentralized form of governance and this has been sucssefully implemented in many parts of the word germany and china is a prime example of that.

If you want to make this argument, then by that logic a single authoritative government (whether centralized or decentralized) that encompasses the entire Somali peninsula cannot be imposed because such an entity has never existed in the history of the Somali peninsula and is incompatible with Somali culture.

You are one confused kid, Geeljire. On the one hand, you rightfully claim that Qabil cannot be divorced from politics and plays a central and defining role in Somali culture. On the other hand, you reject independent qabil states as a foreign invention "forced" onto the people, despite the fact the Somali peninsula has always consisted of small qabil kingdoms that were at constant war with each other. The fact of the matter is, your ideas of a Somali government of any kind is a modern invention that was not conceived of by the people in the Somali peninsula nor is such a government compatible with Somali culture. It is a system of governance that, by your own words, "does not fit".

 

[Geeljire]

If you want to make this argument, then by that logic a single authoritative government (whether centralized or decentralized) that encompasses the entire Somali peninsula cannot be imposed because such an entity has never existed in the history of the Somali peninsula and is incompatible with Somali culture

By what logic other than your own? . I said it was incompatible with the social structure of the somali people. i even highligthed some of the greviances behinds why people will not support a centralized govt. There is nothing wrong with centralization or Federation it is just not fit for us.

You are one confused kid, Geeljire. On the one hand, you rightfully claim that Qabil cannot be divorced from politics and plays a central and defining role in Somali culture. On the other hand, you reject independent qabil states as a foreign invention "forced" onto the people, despite the fact the Somali peninsula has always consisted of small qabil kingdoms that were at constant war with each other. The fact of the matter is, your ideas of a Somali government of any kind is a modern invention that was not conceived of by the people in the Somali peninsula nor is such a government compatible with Somali culture. It is a system of governance that, by your own words, "does not fit"

.

it is you who is actually confused, Putting words in my mouth . I have said that we should seperate it to some degree from poltiics and create an Elders Senate in which such clan matters can be discussed. This is what most native somalis propose. Qabil kingdoms and qabil states are two different things.

heres an an example of my interview with an elder in Bosaso

Elder from Bosaaso: "Qabil is a serious weapon. It's only bad when you use it against someone. The rest of the time it's for safety."
"Clan system was never a problem, until we had to form a government. Politicians worldwide say anything to get seats. Not unique to us." "Our personal problem is politicizing Clan to gain political power. We need to find a way to separate these two things. Deadly combination."

"What we have always suggested is to make clan an official institution in Somalia. Clan matters discussed in front of a elders senate."

"What these politicians are doing now is foreign to us. It's fake governance so the criminals can loot and the foreigners can rip us off."

"This is a harness to keep us divided and weak so they can create a corrupt elite. That's how majority of African nations function anyway."

We are trying to fit Somali people into a western political system. Our system should be tailor fit for us and our society."

 

[Geeljire]

The fact of the matter is, your ideas of a Somali government of any kind is a modern invention that was not conceived of by the people in the Somali peninsula nor is such a government compatible with Somali culture. It is a system of governance that, by your own words, "does not fit".

Oh the Arrogance to assume a decentralization is a western or foreign inventions. Like you said Somalis had various Cheif doms,kingdoms, sultunates before the colonization. That innit itself is being decentralized.

The whole system of xeer was used to fit a decentralized governance for hundreds of years.


shuu shuu i dont have time for trolls who say silly stuff like this.