SERIOUS ONLY SOMALI WOMEN

[Barni]

When it comes to the deen, I am not very knowledgeable. But quite recently I found about ma malakat aymanukum. And ever since my iman has been very weak. Is this ayah in the quran taken out of context? How do you guys reconcile this? BTW I don’t need the ex muslims here to get involved.

​

 

[sagegreen]

When it comes to the deen, I am not very knowledgeable. But quite recently I found about ma malakat aymanukum. And ever since my iman has been very weak. Is this ayah in the quran taken out of context? How do you guys reconcile this? BTW I don’t need the ex muslims here to get involved.

​

It's true, men are allowed to have sex with their slaves in times of war.

This makes me also doubt about islam. Especially when it clearly is misogynistic.

 

[Barni]

It's true, men are allowed to have sex with their slaves in times of war.

This makes me also doubt about islam. Especially when it clearly is misogynistic.

Do you just ignore it then?

 

[Mount23]

There's no sex slavery in Islam. A man can't force himself on a slave woman, that's not Islam. A man back then can only have sex with a slave if she converts to Islam and agrees to marry him. If she doesn't want to marry, then he's not allowed to have sex with her, and he can't keep her a slave forever, because it is a law to eventually free a slave.
وَمَن لَّمۡ يَسۡتَطِعۡ مِنكُمۡ طَوۡلًا أَن يَنكِحَ ٱلۡمُحۡصَنَٰتِ ٱلۡمُؤۡمِنَٰتِ فَمِن مَّا مَلَكَتۡ أَيۡمَٰنُكُم مِّن فَتَيَٰتِكُمُ ٱلۡمُؤۡمِنَٰتِۚ وَٱللَّهُ أَعۡلَمُ بِإِيمَٰنِكُمۚ بَعۡضُكُم مِّنۢ بَعۡضٖۚ فَٱنكِحُوهُنَّ بِإِذۡنِ أَهۡلِهِنَّ وَءَاتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ بِٱلۡمَعۡرُوفِ مُحۡصَنَٰتٍ غَيۡرَ مُسَٰفِحَٰتٖ وَلَا مُتَّخِذَٰتِ أَخۡدَانٖۚ فَإِذَآ أُحۡصِنَّ فَإِنۡ أَتَيۡنَ بِفَٰحِشَةٖ فَعَلَيۡهِنَّ نِصۡفُ مَا عَلَى ٱلۡمُحۡصَنَٰتِ مِنَ ٱلۡعَذَابِۚ ذَٰلِكَ لِمَنۡ خَشِيَ ٱلۡعَنَتَ مِنكُمۡۚ وَأَن تَصۡبِرُواْ خَيۡرٞ لَّكُمۡۗ وَٱللَّهُ غَفُورٞ رَّحِيمٞ
(Sahih International) And whoever among you cannot [find] the means to marry free, believing women, then [he may marry] from those whom your right hands possess of believing slave girls. And Allah is most knowing about your faith. You [believers] are of one another. So marry them with the permission of their people and give them their due compensation according to what is acceptable. [They should be] chaste, neither [of] those who commit unlawful intercourse randomly nor those who take [secret] lovers. But once they are sheltered in marriage, if they should commit adultery, then for them is half the punishment for free [unmarried] women. This [allowance] is for him among you who fears sin, but to be patient is better for you. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
-Surah An-Nisa', Ayah 25

 

[sagegreen]

Do you just ignore it then?

No, that makes me delusional. I try to find different sources like different people giving the tafsir on those verses. But it's a never ending cycle for me. What about you sis

 

[DubatDiaries]

You are allowed to have sex with your own slave I think its because they are their mahrams. Pre- Islamic Arabs and Greco- Romans would out their slaves to other men for money (basically pimps). You can have a sexual relationship with your own slave and it won't count as adultery.

 

[El Nino]

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[sagegreen]

There's no sex slavery in Islam. A man can't force himself on a slave woman, that's not Islam. A man back then can only have sex with a slave if she converts to Islam and agrees to marry him. If she doesn't want to marry, then he's not allowed to have sex with her, and he can't keep her a slave forever, because it is a law to eventually free a slave.
وَمَن لَّمۡ يَسۡتَطِعۡ مِنكُمۡ طَوۡلًا أَن يَنكِحَ ٱلۡمُحۡصَنَٰتِ ٱلۡمُؤۡمِنَٰتِ فَمِن مَّا مَلَكَتۡ أَيۡمَٰنُكُم مِّن فَتَيَٰتِكُمُ ٱلۡمُؤۡمِنَٰتِۚ وَٱللَّهُ أَعۡلَمُ بِإِيمَٰنِكُمۚ بَعۡضُكُم مِّنۢ بَعۡضٖۚ فَٱنكِحُوهُنَّ بِإِذۡنِ أَهۡلِهِنَّ وَءَاتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ بِٱلۡمَعۡرُوفِ مُحۡصَنَٰتٍ غَيۡرَ مُسَٰفِحَٰتٖ وَلَا مُتَّخِذَٰتِ أَخۡدَانٖۚ فَإِذَآ أُحۡصِنَّ فَإِنۡ أَتَيۡنَ بِفَٰحِشَةٖ فَعَلَيۡهِنَّ نِصۡفُ مَا عَلَى ٱلۡمُحۡصَنَٰتِ مِنَ ٱلۡعَذَابِۚ ذَٰلِكَ لِمَنۡ خَشِيَ ٱلۡعَنَتَ مِنكُمۡۚ وَأَن تَصۡبِرُواْ خَيۡرٞ لَّكُمۡۗ وَٱللَّهُ غَفُورٞ رَّحِيمٞ
(Sahih International) And whoever among you cannot [find] the means to marry free, believing women, then [he may marry] from those whom your right hands possess of believing slave girls. And Allah is most knowing about your faith. You [believers] are of one another. So marry them with the permission of their people and give them their due compensation according to what is acceptable. [They should be] chaste, neither [of] those who commit unlawful intercourse randomly nor those who take [secret] lovers. But once they are sheltered in marriage, if they should commit adultery, then for them is half the punishment for free [unmarried] women. This [allowance] is for him among you who fears sin, but to be patient is better for you. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
-Surah An-Nisa', Ayah 25

Lol you're contradicting yourself. There is sex slavery in islam. The ayah you shared is literally the evidence. Just because the woman has to be Muslim doesn't mean it doesn't exist

 

[Garaad diinle]

Keep in mind that us the unlearned cannot fully understand the subject since we obviously lacking in knowledge. There is a whole literature on slavery in islam and we ought to
look at it from a holistic perspective.

This legislation was instated at a time when slavery was practiced world wide. We live in a time were slavery does not exisit not in the open anyways so this should not consern us. Our only concerne in this world is to please our lord allah and when he orders us we say we hear and obey.

 

[DubatDiaries]

Lol you're contradicting yourself. There is sex slavery in islam. The ayah you shared is literally the evidence. Just because the woman has to be Muslim doesn't mean it doesn't exist

The ayah shows that they can marry a slave with the permission of both her and her people. It has to be consensual and he needs to pay mehr. You just cant force yourself on someone. Slaves existed for the past 6000 years, getting married is your best deal out of slavery.

 

[sagegreen]

The ayah shows that they can marry a slave with the permission of both her and her people. It has to be consensual and he needs to pay mehr. You just cant force yourself on someone. Slaves existed for the past 6000 years, getting married is your best deal out of slavery.

It says this "So marry them with the permission of their people" The ayah is not talking about the permission of the slave girl. Where can I read about her permission? They are forcing themselves on the slave girl.

 

[Barni]

No, that makes me delusional. I try to find different sources like different people giving the tafsir on those verses. But it's a never ending cycle for me. What about you sis

To be fair, I just remind myself of the other beauties of islam, but it feels very hypocritical as I have a very anti slavery stance.

 

[Kalsoon]

Have you looked up the tafsiir of the ayah for yourself from the well-known scholars? You can look for pdfs online with the English tafsiir, videos or go directly to the knowledgeable people at you local masjid. I would advise you to get your knowledge from reputable scholars. Enemies of the deen target people who don’t have knowledge of Islam in order to create doubts in them. Please don’t let those doubts fester without seeking the accurate viewpoint based on Quran and Sunnah.

 

[World]

For all of human history until the 20th century, there was nothing controversial about men having consensual intimacy with their slaves. Our thinking and morality has been influenced by post 20th century western society. There is nothing wrong with what Allah made halal.

 

[Barni]

For all of human history until the 20th century, there was nothing controversial about men having consensual intimacy with their slaves. Our thinking and morality has been influenced by post 20th century western society. There is nothing wrong with what Allah made halal.

You do know that slave are held against their own will, how does consent work then?

 

[DubatDiaries]

It says this "So marry them with the permission of their people" The ayah is not talking about the permission of the slave girl. Where can I read about her permission? They are forcing themselves on the slave girl.

I assume its the same way it goes for "regular" Muslim women. You can consent and want to marry a man but you have to have the approval of your mahram. As with the slave girl she can want to marry a free man but has to have the approval of her mahram (people).

Slaves historically existed as their own social class, even if they had their own families something kind of similar to being a serf (in Russia) or a peasant in medieval Europe . There had to be laws to regulate the treatment of slaves in the Quran, since the Quran goes into depth about the permissiveness of even more mundane things like wudhu and menstruation. It is not an instruction to go on and create your own serfdom, it is not central or even an essential part of the religion. In my opinion, I think its going to be a burden to any Muslim on the day of Judgement because you are responsible for every last thing that happens to your slave.

Above all, the Quran stresses about God-consciousness, good treatment of people, avoiding injustice and freeing of slaves as a superior moral good. We can infer from the rest of it that mistreating people unlawfully, including forcing yourself on someone can not be halal.

That being said, I know some Muslims historically probably mistreated slaves, abducted people unlawfully to sell into slavery for worldly profit and spread injustice to fill their bellies (look at the braindead corruption in parts of the Muslim world now).

 

[Deleted L]

A man back then can only have sex with a slave if she converts to Islam and agrees to marry him. If she doesn't want to marry, then he's not allowed to have sex with her, and he can't keep her a slave forever, because it is a law to eventually free a slave.

What you said here isn’t true. A man is allowed to have intercourse with his Non-Muslim slave-girl without even marrying her. Her converting to Islam isn’t a requirement and he’s not obligated to free her either, he can keep her as a slave until the day she dies.

 

[Deleted L]

When it comes to the deen, I am not very knowledgeable. But quite recently I found about ma malakat aymanukum. And ever since my iman has been very weak. Is this ayah in the quran taken out of context? How do you guys reconcile this? BTW I don’t need the ex muslims here to get involved.

If you have doubts, it’s best to privately contact a scholar or someone who’s philosophically trained to deal with the specific doubts you have rather than posting your doubts publicly on an anonymous forum. Publicly speaking about your doubts would cast doubts into the minds of others which would have a domino effect on others.

The Ayah in the Quran isn’t taken out of context. The only licit sexual activity permitted in our religion is through marriage and a man having sexual intercourse with his slave-girls (concubines). There’s Ijma (consensus) on this and no Muslim in Pre-modern times ever questioned or had a problem with this ruling.

Also sister, another thing you should understand is that Islam is a religion of submission and there are certain aspects of the religion you may not understand or have a hard time understanding (mostly due to modern social-conditioning) but at the end of the day, it all comes down to submission. We are slaves of Allah, we hear and obey. This life is a test.

Check out this thread I wrote a year ago explaining this:

I didn't write this, someone else did & I thought this is a powerful message so I decided to share it here:

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

The theological & moral issues that are usually the first to chip away at the faith of Muslims (who become Apostates/drowning in shubuhāt) that lead to greater doubts are known by all:

So; the committed Muslim & the one in doubt BOTH know about the "issues":

The existence of hellfire, existence of evil or offensive warfare to conquer disbelieving lands (jihād at-talab), concubinage, the marriage of the Messenger ﷺ with Sayyidah A'isha رضي الله عنها, the hudūd etc.

So what makes the difference?

It truly comes down to submission. Submission is what separates both groups. Most of the heresies we find in modern man are rooted in (if I was to summarize) man's inability to realize that he is the slave and Allāh is the Lord. One must know, numerous apostasy cases include huffāz of the Qur'ān, or those who were once upon a time giving da'wah themselves, and those who do actually know about the religion. So know, that one could learn all the rebuttals against the arguments of Islam thrown at him from an intellectual standpoint, but still have uncertainty in his Islam, simply because his heart never completely submitted, for imān isn't just an intellectual exercise for the mind, rather it's a spiritual conviction in the heart (that Allāh gives His slave) tied with the intellectual certitude.

Imām Abū Ja'far Al Tahāwī رَحِمَهُ الله beautifully summarized:

"For none is safe in his religion except those who surrender themselves to Allāh Almighty and to His Messenger (ﷺ), and relinquishes the knowledge of what is ambiguous to the One who knows it.'' The Imām رَحِمَهُ الله also says: "A man's footing in Islām is not firm unless it is based on SUBMISSION and surrender."

The one in doubt thinks "how can Allāh possibly legislate this”? Whereas he, the committed Muslim is content in whatever Allāh wills and whatever He revealed.

One can argue, only if these people who had left the religion grounded themselves in foundational 'Aqīda (creed) with a firm grounding, I say:

This is a fair point, yet first of all we must know that Allāh guides whom He wills and secondly one should realize that even if people learn the foundational creed for a 1000 years from the greatest theologian to have ever lived, BUT if this person never internalized what he learned in his heart by complete & total submission to Allāh, His Will, His Decree, His rulings & His Divine Wisdom, he would still waiver!

This is why it is not a matter of just knowing, but a matter of submitting like the story of Ibrahīm عليه السلام, Allāh raise his ranks, was commanded to slaughter his own!

So what truly separates the believer and people of doubt and those who went astray is:

Submission - to know that we are broken slaves of Allāh who have limited knowledge and affirming Allāh is our Lord, the King of Kings!
And Allāh knows best.

He also wrote:

"Many Muslims don't realise that many murtaddīn ("ex-Muslims") were practicing & serious about the Dīn and it isn't the case they abandoned this path merely because 'they wanted to do zina/alcohol'. Rather, it's simply the case, many looked at Islam through the lens of the world, so couldn't reconcile their values (usually subjective secular humanist values) with the Sharī'ah, and left. This is why it's important to seek the aid of Allāh for we never know our state tomorrow let alone at our deaths."

And also:

"By Allāh, I'll tell you what this all comes down to:

Belief in the Messenger ﷺ. This is the foundation

One either sincerely, genuinely and firmly believes him as a true Prophet, and so believes in everything he came with or they reject/doubt his Prophethood and so there is no foundation."

 

[Sajid]

To be fair, I just remind myself of the other beauties of islam, but it feels very hypocritical as I have a very anti slavery stance.

Islam came to a society where slavery is normal so Islam didn't Haram it nor encourage it too.

It's just in grey area and Islam also gave many right to the slave and encourage Muslims to free slaved to remove some of their sins and left slavery to die as time goes.

 

[Deleted L]

To be fair, I just remind myself of the other beauties of islam, but it feels very hypocritical as I have a very anti slavery stance.

You only have a very Anti-Slavery stance because of the time and place you were born in so naturally you would likely conform to the dominant view of your culture. Had you lived a few centuries ago and before, you wouldn’t think of slavery as a flaw as slavery was universally accepted and practiced in various ways.

Now I am not saying just because something is socially acceptable that makes it ethically justifiable but I would only mention these examples to demonstrate that social conditioning shapes our entire moral outlook on life, so pre-conceived notions, biases and emotions should be kept aside and you should use your reason objectively.