SERIOUS ONLY SOMALI WOMEN

[induction]

you can't force the slave person into having sex with you. she must first agree to it, then it becomes ok. there are many many resources on this (one i like most is a video by Dr.
Omar Suleiman) where he talks about it in great detail. but in summary, she must first agree to it. If you rape her, i think you get a punishment similar to that of zina

 

[Hamzza]

To be fair, I just remind myself of the other beauties of islam, but it feels very hypocritical as I have a very anti slavery stance.

You are implying there's an ugly face of Islam, Walaal, Islaamkoo dhan waa beautiful, and your stances and western attitudes towards Slavery don't matter to Islam and Sharia.

I do not condone slavery and Islam certainly discouraged it, but I'm pretty sure the practice of slavery will return to this world in some time. Slavery is still practiced in countries like Cameroon, Mauritania and to a lesser degree in Southern Somalia anyways.

 

[NordicSomali]

Keep in mind that us the unlearned cannot fully understand the subject since we obviously lacking in knowledge. There is a whole literature on slavery in islam and we ought to
look at it from a holistic perspective.

This legislation was instated at a time when slavery was practiced world wide. We live in a time were slavery does not exisit not in the open anyways so this should not consern us. Our only concerne in this world is to please our lord allah and when he orders us we say we hear and obey.

Slavery is still halal in our age if I understand correctly. There’s no “we live in a time”, you can still have concubines but you will have to go to war, not recommend though.

 

[Garaad diinle]

Slavery is still halal in our age if I understand correctly. There’s no “we live in a time”, you can still have concubines but you will have to go to war, not recommend though.

We are under the rules of a nation state. What country allows you to have a concubines. If the chosen ruler forbids it, it's not allowed.

 

[Barni]

You are implying there's an ugly face of Islam, Walaal, Islaamkoo dhan waa beautiful, and your stances and western attitudes towards Slavery don't matter to Islam and Sharia.

I do not condone slavery and Islam certainly discouraged it, but I'm pretty sure the practice of slavery will return to this world in some time. Slavery is still practiced in countries like Cameroon, Mauritania and to a lesser degree in Southern Somalia anyways.

That was not my intention to disrespect sorry if I offended you.

 

[NordicSomali]

We are under the rules of a nation state. What country allows you to have a concubines. If the chosen ruler forbids it, it's not allowed.

I’m not defending it, but Islamic law supersedes the law of any nation

 

[Abu Hesi]

Instead of asking people on Somalispot, go to your local Mosque and ask the Imam there. If you had a medical condition you were worried or ignorant about would you ask Somalispot or your doctor?

 

[Garaad diinle]

I’m not defending it, but Islamic law supersedes the law of any nation

No walal i understand where you're coming from but it's also islamic law to obey the chosen ruler even if it is an islamic country. If a sultan says no to slavery it's forbidden. Islam didn't institute slavery but regulated it and restricted it. Freeing slaves is encouraged in islam and is kaffara or a penalty for many sins. Your not a sinner if you forbid slavery today specially now when the whole world agrees that is bad. It might even be considerd macrof in our age meaning common law.

 

[Angelina]

You only have a very Anti-Slavery stance because of the time and place you were born in so naturally you would likely conform to the dominant view of your culture. Had you lived a few centuries ago and before, you wouldn’t think of slavery as a flaw as slavery was universally accepted and practiced in various ways.

I try not to dwell on it because as Muslims we hear and obey and this isn’t an issue of the 21st century. Hence, why think about something that isn’t an issue?

However, the idea that people only have anti-slavery view due to Westernization is a false one. Alhamdulliah, I’m a Muslim woman but the idea of living in a society in which I too can be enslaved if my nation loses and will then have to be the concubine of a man I’m repulsed by is triggering for anyone. You wouldn’t want it to happen to any woman of your family and the idea would probably disgust you. But that was the reality of the world. What do you think happened to Muslim women when the Mongols invaded Baghdad?

That right there is where the discomfort stems from. I’m sure, in times of old that was also an issue as I’ve read that some groups or nations would unalive themselves when their men lost because that would be their fate.

Btw, I’m talking about concubinage in general as Islam never created or encouraged this system. This was simply a fact of life in the ancient world.

Now I am not saying just because something is socially acceptable that makes it ethically justifiable but I would only mention these examples to demonstrate that social conditioning shapes our entire moral outlook on life,

As I’ve pointed out. It’s more than social conditioning. Also, slavery in Islam is a punishment for the non believers and the gaals of that era also thought slavery was the norm and would so to punish their opponents. However, no groups would want that for their women. Even in the ancient world, women going into slavery was always associated with defeat and shame for the losing group and some preferred death.

so pre-conceived notions, biases and emotions should be kept aside and you should use your reason objectively.

Using my reasoning objectively makes me not think about the issue at length. I’m an avid reader of history and that was simply the way of the world. Islam is in fact the only religion that actually encourages the freeing of slaves and actually treating them like humans.

 

[sagegreen]

Slavery is still halal in our age if I understand correctly. There’s no “we live in a time”, you can still have concubines but you will have to go to war, not recommend though.

It is happening. Look at Libya for example. And have you seen those IS dogs having sex with yazidi women? They capture them as slaves and defend their actions by using this particular ayah. It's ridiculous

 

[JaredAbdullahiKushner2000]

you can't force the slave person into having sex with you. she must first agree to it, then it becomes ok. there are many many resources on this (one i like most is a video by Dr.
Omar Suleiman) where he talks about it in great detail. but in summary, she must first agree to it. If you rape her, i think you get a punishment similar to that of zina

You can, but if harm should occur if forced, then the slave owner should refrain from it. I am sure same rules applies for slave girls as it applies to married women.

People here are in doubt because their morals have been westernized. Their ideas of what is right and wrong is based on western ideas of what is right and wrong. When I realized the contradictions between western values and my islamic values I completely disregarded and abandoned whatever western value crept into my perception. Another topic is the age of marriage in Islam, it is puberty when a girl can be consumated and bethrotal can happen at any age. This is a stark contrast to the west that generally put the age of marriage at 18. This is a no brainer cause harm is always bad, for example if a slave is harmed it should be emancipated. Emancipation in Islam is encouraged.

 

[JaredAbdullahiKushner2000]

It is happening. Look at Libya for example. And have you seen those IS dogs having sex with yazidi women? They capture them as slaves and defend their actions by using this particular ayah. It's ridiculous

There are rules and regulations when it comes to slaves. Whatever libyans and khawarij do that is something that goes against Islamic values. They also organ harvest. So to bring these two groups when we talking about slavery and Islam is ridiculous.

 

[adventurequestworlds1.0.2]

You can, but if harm should occur if forced, then the slave owner should refrain from it. I am sure same rules applies for slave girls as it applies to married women.

People here are in doubt because their morals have been westernized. Their ideas of what is right and wrong is based on western ideas of what is right and wrong. When I realized the contradictions between western values and my islamic values I completely disregarded and abandoned whatever western value crept into my perception. Another topic is the age of marriage in Islam, it is puberty when a girl can be consumated and bethrotal can happen at any age. This is a stark contrast to the west that generally put the age of marriage at 18. This is a no brainer cause harm is always bad, for example if a slave is harmed it should be emancipated. Emancipation in Islam is encouraged.

U cant force womans into slavery then force them to have sex and if u are married u cant force your wife to have sex with you
And 9 or 10 girls who reach puberty are kids not adult just cuz they reach puberty and i think cant be married to a man

 

[JaredAbdullahiKushner2000]

Slave girls can be forced to have intercourse unless harm occurs. The same ruling that applies to married women also apllies to slave girls.

 

[JaredAbdullahiKushner2000]

U cant force womans into slavery then force them to have sex and if u are married u cant force your wife to have sex with you
And 9 or 10 girls who reach puberty are kids not adult just cuz they reach puberty and i think cant be married to a man

First of all slaves are acquired in war not raids, secondly the same ruling that applies married women also applies to slave girls. So yes a man can force his slave girl to have intercourse unless harm occurs. There are no such thing as marital rape in Islam, so the only time it becomes haram is when harm occurs. Harm is prohibited in Islam.

Watch the video of Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Uthaymeen

 

[JaredAbdullahiKushner2000]

U cant force womans into slavery then force them to have sex and if u are married u cant force your wife to have sex with you
And 9 or 10 girls who reach puberty are kids not adult just cuz they reach puberty and i think cant be married to a man

Childhood is a social construct. It didn't exist in the west or in the world before the industrialization and in the industrialization. When children reached 8-9 they were seen as adults. Boys worked at factories and girls worked at female workplaces such as cloth making, sewing or as servants. You just coming up with your own subjective opinions my friend. A girl is a adult female when she can biologically reproduce not at 18. 18 is just a number with no meaning, its not even universally agreed upon, in some states you can still get married to a girl below 18 with parental consent and it happened more than 300k times since 2000.

 

[adventurequestworlds1.0.2]

First of all slaves are acquired in war not raids, secondly the same ruling that applies married women also applies to slave girls. So yes a man can force his slave girl to have intercourse unless harm occurs. There are no such thing as marital rape in Islam, so the only time it becomes haram is when harm occurs. Harm is prohibited in Islam.

Watch the video of Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Uthaymeen

Like i said u cant force your wife to have sex with you
I dont watch tht since i dont believe forcing wife to have sex
I think There is no proof in islam tht u can do tht andwhen thete is war u cant take woman adul or non adult as slavr concube and sex slave since tjose arent part of the war
This logic can be used against since any mans whether be muslims or non muslims tht is war with somali ppl can take you female family members into sex slave

 

[adventurequestworlds1.0.2]

Childhood is a social construct. It didn't exist in the west or in the world before the industrialization and in the industrialization. When children reached 8-9 they were seen as adults. Boys worked at factories and girls worked at female workplaces such as cloth making, sewing or as servants. You just coming up with your own subjective opinions my friend. A girl is a adult female when she can biologically reproduce not at 18. 18 is just a number with no meaning, its not even universally agreed upon, in some states you can still get married to a girl below 18 with parental consent and it happened more than 300k times since 2000.

Child is not social construct lol

 

[adventurequestworlds1.0.2]

Childhood is a social construct. It didn't exist in the west or in the world before the industrialization and in the industrialization. When children reached 8-9 they were seen as adults. Boys worked at factories and girls worked at female workplaces such as cloth making, sewing or as servants. You just coming up with your own subjective opinions my friend. A girl is a adult female when she can biologically reproduce not at 18. 18 is just a number with no meaning, its not even universally agreed upon, in some states you can still get married to a girl below 18 with parental consent and it happened more than 300k times since 2000.

Age numbes matter since both boys and girls need to be mature body and mind and i dont follow Western value and it is not Western value to see 10 or 9 as child whether boys or girls
I think u you and ppl think like you are making your own things

 

[induction]

You can, but if harm should occur if forced, then the slave owner should refrain from it. I am sure same rules applies for slave girls as it applies to married women.

People here are in doubt because their morals have been westernized. Their ideas of what is right and wrong is based on western ideas of what is right and wrong. When I realized the contradictions between western values and my islamic values I completely disregarded and abandoned whatever western value crept into my perception. Another topic is the age of marriage in Islam, it is puberty when a girl can be consumated and bethrotal can happen at any age. This is a stark contrast to the west that generally put the age of marriage at 18. This is a no brainer cause harm is always bad, for example if a slave is harmed it should be emancipated. Emancipation in Islam is encouraged.

this is the problem with most people that think like you. if the west does something, it's automatically wrong. you can't rape a person, be they a slave or a free person. like come on man. all of this imo stems from reading the hadith and quran super literally. like the prophet married aisha when she was 9 so it must be ok to marry 9 year olds, that kind of thing is called PEDOPHILIA . you don't need the west to tell you that.