"Shaykh Said al Kamali responds to the Madkhalis and their likes"

[techsamatar]

see? us criticizing the Saudi gov makes us "keyboard khawarij" but this user criticizing Hamas doesn't make him a "keyboard khariji". it is utter hypocrisy.

Hamas are not a government nor rulers so keep coping you khawarij, Palestine does not equal the rafidha-controlled rebel organisation that produces additional issues for Muslims; I would not be surprised if their assaulting and provocation was also part of Israel's agenda.

 

[reer]

Hamas are not a government nor rulers

so who runs gaza? aliens?

 

[techsamatar]

this is something ahlul starbucks is hiding from the people. if you study the view of the classical scholars, this is their view. as I mentioned elsewhere- Sheikh Ibn Baz actually urged that governments that dismantled the shariah should be fought. That's not me saying that- that is what he said. I am not urging anyone to rebel against governments of any Muslim country or anything like that. even in cases where for example scholars made takfir of a ruler... like for example Sheikh Ibn Baz made takfir of Saddam and some others made takfir of Assad and Gaddafi- but does that necessarily mean the people should rebel?

even if it is shown that the ruler is not a Muslim, this does not necessarily mean that rebelling is a good idea. my belief is that even if the ruler was not a Muslim, he should not be rebelled against if rebelling against him will lead to a greater evil. what I've laid out here is the correct view.

it would be a joke to claim that Saudi is ruling by the shariah. I am not "rebelling against the ruler", I am simply criticizing the Saudi government- and for very good reasons! Criticizing is nothing compared to what the classical scholars and Sheikh Ibn Baz allowed for a government that dismantles the shariah.

This idea that any way that I am not allowed to criticize stuff like Saudi Shakira concerts and the other degeneracy going on there... and that the moment I say any word of criticism that this means I am a khariji, this is a bogus false ideology promoted by the Saudi government itself via this fake version of Salafiyyah it's currently promoting, in order that it can legitimize killing and torturing anyone who rightfully speaks up and opposes what is happening.

Just the fact that Saudi is pushing this sinister fake version of salafiyyah that promotes legitimizing the killing of whoever criticizes their government and going after those of us who aren't duped by their fake version of Salafiyyah, just as it functions to legitimize the arrest, and possibly torture and killing of Saudi scholars who rightfully oppose the forced Westernization... just that Saudi is pushing this kind of thing is all the more reason to openly criticize that government. I don't know of the governments of Malaysia or Indonesia doing that kind of thing.

And if people really are wondering whether it's true that anyone who criticizes a government in a Muslim country and is therefore a khariji.... bear in mind, this would be insane if we actually followed where that ideology would lead. Tons of Pakistanis have criticized the post-Imran Khan government. Probably most of the population of Pakistan, like 90% of this forum, some ridiculously enormous percentage of the Muslim ummah, numerous modern and classical scholars including Albani and Sheikh Uthaymeen would be khawarij according to this ideology. The "madkhalis" themselves would be khawarij according to this ideology because they are known to criticize Hamas, the Taliban, Qatar and Turkey. On one hand, they call you a khariji dog of hellfire if you criticize degenerate concerts in Saudi Arabia and say you are calling for chaos and bloodshed via revolution. Then they go and criticize Hamas! According to their own logic, they themselves are khawarij dogs of hellfire calling for chaos and bloodshed via revolution because of their criticizing Hamas. But for some reason this only applies if you criticize Saudi but not Hamas. It is an evident double standard.

The Twitter account in question appears to espouse a straightforward Takfiri Khawarij ideology. It is hoped that the individual behind this account will go beyond online expressions and take concrete actions aligned with their beliefs. If they genuinely believe that all Muslim rulers are in a state of disbelief and warrant resistance, one might expect them to leave the West and actively engage in realizing these convictions.

What motivates these keyboard warriors to reside in non-Muslim lands, contribute to the tax system governed by non-Muslim authorities, and yet espouse negative sentiments is perplexing. If they genuinely hold such strong convictions, one might expect them to channel their passion into tangible actions, such as actively opposing rulers they perceive as fostering disbelief.

Question: Is it permissible (for individuals) to kill the Khawārij (extremists, terrorists, insurgents, etc.) if we know who they are and know how malicious they are?

Answer: No. Even when they revolted against ‘Alī (the fourth Caliph of Islam), he didn’t fight and kill them until after they actually began revolting, uprising against the leader. Other Muslim leaders, even if they were tyrants, used not to kill them unless and until they unsheathed their swords and began openly revolting and fighting (against the leaders and authorities). So, they are only to be fought and killed (by legitimate authorities) once they unsheathe their swords (take up arms) and actually begin their revolt. Otherwise, there would be chaos – everyone going around killing each other. It’s only one of the Khawārij themselves who would say this.

 

[techsamatar]

so who runs gaza? aliens?

Hamas is not in charge of Gaza. And, while the Palestinians screamed for peace and a cessation of hostilities, they did not agree to Hamas provoking a superpower simply to give them a justification to displace 1.5 million Muslims and destroy Gaza. Israel knew they were ready to strike and let its defence down, allowing Hamas to massacre civilians, and then they carried out the world's largest siege, dumping 6000 bombs on innocent people in a week, which is how many bombs were rained on Iraq in a year.

 

[reer]

Hamas is not in charge of Gaza.

no point in this conversation.

 

[Galool]

see? us criticizing the Saudi gov makes us "keyboard khawarij" but this user criticizing Hamas doesn't make him a "keyboard khariji". it is utter hypocrisy.

You are wasting your time arguing with a guy who started on this forum by proudly stating he works for Israelis against Muslim Palestinians.

Since the PR war against the Zionists has grown he like other Madkhalis switched to attacking Muslims more.

No one cares to hear the opinions of a Zionist about Islam. In fact whatever he says is an good indication of what is wrong.

techsamatar said:
I am employed by a billion-dollar, stock-traded software company headquartered in Israel, founded and owned by Israelis. I work at their UK subsidiary, where we receive technology support from the headquarters and pay them a percentage of the revenue we generate. The company specializes in providing workforce management software and security solutions to all businesses Israel they probably do software to monitor Palestinians who knows.

Ironically, my CEO is about to visit the headquarters to discuss a list of demands for our UK branch. However, the situation took a surprising turn when Hamas invaded Israel, i think it will cause significant disruptions, especially in the procurement of software and hardware.

Do I feel guilt for working with Israelis? Nah. Is it Haram? Don't think so.

If I am on the path to becoming a future Dictator and uniting Somalia, sacrifices will need to be made, and I must elevate to power, and get closer to ones who control the globe behind the curtains.

 

[Galool]

 

[Omar del Sur]

The Twitter account in question appears to espouse a straightforward Takfiri Khawarij ideology. It is hoped that the individual behind this account will go beyond online expressions and take concrete actions aligned with their beliefs. If they genuinely believe that all Muslim rulers are in a state of disbelief and warrant resistance, one might expect them to leave the West and actively engage in realizing these convictions.

What motivates these keyboard warriors to reside in non-Muslim lands, contribute to the tax system governed by non-Muslim authorities, and yet espouse negative sentiments is perplexing. If they genuinely hold such strong convictions, one might expect them to channel their passion into tangible actions, such as actively opposing rulers they perceive as fostering disbelief.

Question: Is it permissible (for individuals) to kill the Khawārij (extremists, terrorists, insurgents, etc.) if we know who they are and know how malicious they are?

Answer: No. Even when they revolted against ‘Alī (the fourth Caliph of Islam), he didn’t fight and kill them until after they actually began revolting, uprising against the leader. Other Muslim leaders, even if they were tyrants, used not to kill them unless and until they unsheathed their swords and began openly revolting and fighting (against the leaders and authorities). So, they are only to be fought and killed (by legitimate authorities) once they unsheathe their swords (take up arms) and actually begin their revolt. Otherwise, there would be chaos – everyone going around killing each other. It’s only one of the Khawārij themselves who would say this.

instead of responding to the actual fatwa I cited, you went and looked at the profile of whoever it is that posted it. I hadn't even looked at their profile, I don't care, the relevant thing is the fatwa. and I don't think that person is a khariji but whatever. all you did was switch the topic to something completely irrelevant.

Here is the exact same fatwa posted from a different website

"وقال الشيخ محمد بن إبراهيم آل الشيخ رحمه الله: "أمَّا الذي قيل فيه: "كفر دون كفر" إذا حاكم إلى غير الله مع اعتقاده أنَّه عاصٍ وأنَّ حكم الله هو الحق؛ فهذا الذي يصدُر منه المرَّة ونحوها، أمَّا الذي جعل قوانين بترتيبٍ وتخضيعٍ، فهو كُفر وإن قالوا: أخطأنا وحُكمُ الشرع أعدل"؛ [فتاوى الشيخ محمد بن إبراهيم: المجلد الثاني العشر/ 280]."

الفرق بين الحكم بغير ما أنزل الله في قضية معينة وبين تبديل شرع الله بقانون وضعي

<p>الفرق بين الحكم بغير ما أنزل الله في قضية معينة وبين تبديل شرع الله بقانون وضعي الحمد لله رب العالمين، حمدًا كثيرًا طيبًا مباركًا فيه، والصلاة والسلام على إمام الموحِّدين، وقائد المجاهدين، سيدنا محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم، وعلى آله الطيبين الطاهرين، وأصحابه الغرِّ الميامين. وبعد: فهذا مقالٌ...

www.alukah.net

instead of actually addressing the fatwa, are you going to instead go and talk about the website that posted it?

"Muḥammad ibn ʾIbrāhīm ibn ʿAbd al-Laṭīf ibn ʿAbd al-Raḥmān ibn Ḥasan ibn Muḥammad ibn Abd al-Wahhāb Al Shaykh Al-Tamīmī (1890– 3 December 1969), was a Saudi Arabian religious scholar who served as the first Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia from 1953 until his death in 1969. He is recognized as being amongst the forefront of Salafi theologians in history."

so are you going to say this Sheikh was a khariji takfiri?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Ibrahim_Al_ash-Sheikh

of course not, maybe instead you'll just talk about a completely topic and pretend that it's a refutation.

(English translation of the fatwa:


)

 

[Omar del Sur]

You are wasting your time arguing with a guy who started on this forum by proudly stating he works for Israelis against Muslim Palestinians.

Since the PR war against the Zionists has grown he like other Madkhalis switched to attacking Muslims more.

No one cares to hear the opinions of a Zionist about Islam. In fact whatever he says is an good indication of what is wrong.

Hamas are not a government nor rulers so keep coping you khawarij, Palestine does not equal the rafidha-controlled rebel organisation that produces additional issues for Muslims; I would not be surprised if their assaulting and provocation was also part of Israel's agenda.

this guy doesn't even know how to use this word correctly, he keeps referring to myself as an individual with khawarij- the plural form. this guy lacks very basic knowledge and he's running around not only trying to refute people but this guy has accused like four or five people on here including myself of being khawarij, on the basis of nonsense SPUBS ideology. not only does he push that we are khawarij for criticizing the Saudi gov (but he's not a "khariji dog of hellfire" for criticizing Hamas, this only applies to the Saudi gov)... but if he followed his own logic, he would have to declare like 90 percent of this forum khawarij (including himself) for criticizing the governments of Saudi, Gaza or Somalia.

this is the logical outcome of SPUBS brainwashing, of SPUBS teaching people wudu then teaching their followers to "refute" every Muslim who doesn't follow their cult ideology. maybe they're teaching them to call everyone innovators and khawarij before they even teach them wudu.

anyways, the aim with this thread is to provide a resource to refute this sinister cult. when I was younger, I remember I heard some stuff from Abu Khadeejah and SPUBS... and I thought something was off about them so I ended up not listening but I wasn't equipped intellectually really to understand what exactly was deviant about them.

what this "Madkhali" group does.... is they push this wrong ideology onto people and they take advantage of people not having the knowledge to understand how they are being led in the wrong direction.

there's a lot of people who simply, sincerely want to follow the Salafi minhaj and these wolves in sheep's clothes pull them into their deviant, cultish ideology.... and so my aim here with this thread is to help provide resources for people to equip themselves intellectually to understand how this group leads people in the wrong direction.

this idea that we have to be utterly subservient to this Saudi government that has dismantled the shariah and that a person is khariji simply because they legitimately criticize this government... or even that it's wrong to criticize the Saudi government... it is utter falsehood....

anyone who wants to investigate what this thread is talking about, who wants to research these issues-

I urge you to study this book

وجوب الانقياد للشريعة​

they have it on sifatusafwa, if anyone wants to get a copy. if you study this book- this book has tons of quotes from classical scholars, showing what the classical scholars believed about dismantling the shariah. the fatwa I posted from the Saudi former grand mufti... if you study this book, if you look at what the classical scholars said, you will see that what he said is the same as what the classical scholars held. this is the actual, authentic Salafi view, not this fake version of Salafiyyah being pushed by Shamsi, SPUBS, etc.

if you want something in English, this goes into the same topic in English

this is why the SPUBS/Shamsi types... this is why they push to keep their followers ignorant, they want to forever keep them focused on like the same four topics, they don't push for their followers to gain actual knowledge, because if they gained actual knowledge, the cult that they are pushing would collapse, its foundations would be wrecked. and if you rightfully recognize what they are pushing is false, then they will attack you.

 

[hanif#]

I'm jealous of the innocent Madkhali tribe, imagine all the ajr they'll be getting on the day of judgement from all the vile slandering

Amharic are also a tribe. But of course when Sunnis are refuting Asharis they don't mean the clan but the deviant Ahlul Bida group

 

[Webb]

btw I avoid referring to the cult as "Madkhalis,"I prefer the terms ahlul big mac or ahlul starbucks. whatever name we give this cult, that is a separate topic then the actual content of its teachings.

When did you stop being a madkhali yourself?

 

[SamaaleCushite]

Inner garweyn conflict

 

[Removed]

@Omar del Sur did I miss the transformation? I thought you were on the don’t criticize the rulers bandwagon?

 

[Galool]

@Omar del Sur did I miss the transformation? I thought you were on the don’t criticize the rulers bandwagon?

He has finally seen their deviance and clear Zionism in the madkhalis behaviour during this current genocide on Palestinian Muslims.

It is a mark of sincerity. May Allah swt guide us all.

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Amharic are also a tribe. But of course when Sunnis are refuting Asharis they don't mean the clan but the deviant Ahlul Bida group

That's completely different, Ashaa'irah have their own aqeedah, And they don't even follow Imaam Al Ash'ari . Meanwhile Shaykh Rabii' bin Hadi Al Madkhali and other shuyookh from his tribe have same aqeedah as imam Al Albani , Shaykh Muqbil etc

 

[Omar del Sur]

one of the biggest English language "Madkhali" accounts was basically calling for mass killing of Muslims... simply for protesting for Palestine... and these are supposedly "anti-khawarij" people!

 

[Al hashimi]

Were the Sahaba wrong for fighting against Yazid despite being Muslim

 

[Omar del Sur]

Were the Sahaba wrong for fighting against Yazid despite being Muslim

I have no opinion on this.

 

[hanif#]

When did you stop being a madkhali yourself?

When their hypocrisy was exposed during the Israeli attack on Gaza

 

[Al hashimi]

@Omar del Sur are you Somali?