Somali connection to Madagascar?

[Bahal]

No. I just think it's time for the encyclopedias to catch up to old mistakes. This isn't the first error in the pile. And it's not just Wiki with the problem. At least with Wiki there is a quick fix. Britannica and other print versions last practically forever. Once it gets to Revolvy it's like it's in stone.....

Not sure what you mean. Here's literally his travels

He also described Bilad al-Barbar as extending from Zeila to Mogadishu

 

[Yung Mali]

The Suldaan of Mogadishu was a Habar Awal man from Berbera

 

[Bahal]

Again, he was not literally from Berbera but rather a "Barbar" i.e. Somali. Ibn Battuta clearly desribes Bilad al-Barbar as extending from Zeila to Mogadishu and makes no distinction between the Barbars of Zeila and the Barbar Sultan of Mogadishu.

 

[Bahal]

I've noticed certain folks love to present Somalis as random nomadic invaders who sprung out of nowhere when our ancestors have been living in Somalia for quite literally millennia, and attributing all their pretty well documented history to some other people who have conveniently disappeared off the face of the Earth in as little as 1700 years without a trace

 

[Yung Mali]

Mogadishu was a part of the "land of Barbara" so your argument that they wanted to say he was from ardhul barbara makes little sense.He came from Berbera and was most probably a Habar Awal man.Stop with the historical revisionism warya

 

[Lord Flacko]

I've noticed certain folks love to present Somalis as random nomadic invaders who sprung out of nowhere when our ancestors have been living in Somalia for quite literally millennia, and attributing all their pretty well documented history to some other people who have conveniently disappeared off the face of the Earth in as little as 1700 years without a trace

Wallahi they have a new random Arab or Persian tribe everytime something about Somalis' history is discussed which they give it credit for to

 

[Lord Flacko]

Mogadishu was a part of the "land of Barbara" so your argument that they wanted to say he was from ardhul barbara makes little sense.He came from Berbera and was most probably a Habar Awal man.Stop with the historical revisionism warya

He could have been Midgaan for all I care. Everything but non Somali

 

[Bahal]

Mogadishu was a part of the "land of Barbara" so your argument that they wanted to say he was from ardhul barbara makes little sense.He came from Berbera and was most probably a Habar Awal man.Stop with the historical revisionism warya

Not sure if retarded or trolling

They called the country Bilad al-Barbar, as in the land of the Barbars, as in the Somali ethnic group was referred to as the Barbars, which is the name the Greeks gave to the Somali ethnic group and subsequently adopted by the Arabs.

 

[Yung Mali]

He could be Midgaan for all I care. Everything but non Somali

Habar Awal were kangz of the north and south walaal.Bow down

 

[Bahal]

Wallahi they have a new random Arab or Persian tribe everytime something about Somalis' history is discussed which they give it credit for to

The Arabs take all the credit for the port cities described in the Periplus of the Erythrean Sea 2000 years ago, and the Oromos and other mysterious and hitherto unknown groups get credit for all the pretty uniform ruins that dot the Somali interior, and according to Grant, we even evicted the goddamn khoisans from Somalia to begin with

 

[Yung Mali]

Not sure if retarded or trolling

They called the country Bilad al-Barbar, as in the land of the Barbars, as in the Somali ethnic group was referred to as the Barbars, which is the name the Greeks gave to the Somali ethnic group and subsequently adopted by the Arabs.

They said "he came from Berbera"

 

[Bahal]

They said "he came from Berbera"

No

 

[Grant]

This is wrong though. Ibn Battuta mentions the Sultan to one who has darker skin and speaks both Arabic and his native tongue Mogadishan (Somali)View attachment 28028View attachment 28027
(rest of the page is missing but you can deduce what comes next based on context and other sources.)

And here's from when Ibn Battuta met a Somali from Mogadishu on a journey to Asia. View attachment 28029 View attachment 28026
And the Sultan was from Bilad Al Berber, aka the Somali Peninsula, not Berbera.


And I have already shown both

Spoiler: historical (+a scholarly opinion based on evidence)

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and

Spoiler: genetic

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evidence which points to the Antemoro more than likely being of Somali descent.[/SPOILER]

Except for Berbera, which was an honest mistake, my critique above stands. Even your quote doesn't claim the Antemoro were Somalis. It says the original ancestors of the Antemoro could have come to an area in Somalia from Arabia and then moved on. This is not impossible, but does not make the Antemoro Samaales. It would be the same situation if they had been among the Arab settlers of the Banadir, and then moved on.

With respect to the Sultan's ethnicity, "Berber" doesn't tie much down. The Banadir had been a mix for centuries and Ibn Batuta mentions no Somali clan or the Ajuraan, who had control of the inland areas. I have so far seen no reason to suppose that Abu Bakr was Samaale.

 

[Grant]

Not sure what you mean. Here's literally his travels

View attachment 28031

He also described Bilad al-Barbar as extending from Zeila to Mogadishu

Wiki did it and several others have followed suit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Mogadishu

"Battuta added that the city was ruled by a Somali Sultan, Abu Bakr ibn Sayx 'Umar,[13][14] who was originally from Berbera in northern Somalia and spoke both Somali (referred to by Battuta as Mogadishan, the Benadir dialect of Somali) and Arabic with equal fluency."

I am also thinking "Sayx" should read "Shaykh". (?)

 

[Lord Flacko]

Except for Berbera, which was an honest mistake, my critique above stands. Even your quote doesn't claim the Antemoro were Somalis. It says the original ancestors of the Antemoro could have come to an area in Somalia from Arabia and then moved on. This is not impossible, but does not make the Antemoro Samaales. It would be the same situation if they had been among the Arab settlers of the Banadir, and then moved on.

With respect to the Sultan's ethnicity, "Berber" doesn't tie much down. The Banadir had been a mix for centuries and Ibn Batuta mentions no Somali clan or the Ajuraan, who had control of the inland areas. I have so far seen no reason to suppose that Abu Bakr was Samaale.

I never said the Antemoro were Somali, only that they are descended from Somalis. I'm not sure if you misunderstood me or are purposefully misquoting me so you don't have to admit you were wrong. I will give you the benefit of doubt though.


How can you say "Berber" is too ambiguous when it was the actual name of Somalis? Arabs and Persians would not be called Berber, that is for sure.
But then, if "Darkskinned Berber who spoke the native language of Mogadishu" is too ambiguous for you, you do not have the right to claim anything about the Sultan. Just say you aren't sure and I won't care, but don't go dictating others. If you do you will only brand yourself as a hypocrite and you'll lose any validity with your comments.

 

[Lord Flacko]

The Arabs take all the credit for the port cities described in the Periplus of the Erythrean Sea 2000 years ago, and the Oromos and other mysterious and hitherto unknown groups get credit for all the pretty uniform ruins that dot the Somali interior, and according to Grant, we even evicted the goddamn khoisans from Somalia to begin with

The Khoisan were never in any Somali land. They used to live in the nonSomali parts Ethiopia though which is evident in the genetic footprint that they left.

 

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

Not sure if retarded or trolling

They called the country Bilad al-Barbar, as in the land of the Barbars, as in the Somali ethnic group was referred to as the Barbars, which is the name the Greeks gave to the Somali ethnic group and subsequently adopted by the Arabs.

But there are Somalis and there are
Samales ,you know

 

[Grant]

I never said the Antemoro were Somali, only that they are descended from Somalis. I'm not sure if you misunderstood me or are purposefully misquoting me so you don't have to admit you were wrong. I will give you the benefit of doubt though.


How can you say "Berber" is too ambiguous when it was the actual name of Somalis? Arabs and Persians would not be called Berber, that is for sure.
But then, if "Darkskinned Berber who spoke the native language of Mogadishu" is too ambiguous for you, you do not have the right to claim anything about the Sultan. Just say you aren't sure and I won't care, but don't go dictating others. If you do you will only brand yourself as a hypocrite and you'll lose any validity with your comments.

The Antemoro descend from Arabs who may or may not have stopped off in Somalia. Name Abu Bakr's clan if you think he was a Samaale. If he was, everybody would be claiming him.

Haplogroup T is a can of worms that has not yet been fully worked out. As Anonimo pointed out, they are not Cushitic, are not E1b1b. The Dir in Djibouti actually approach 100%. Surely you're not suggesting the East Indians and Sicilians are also Somalis?

Anonimo is holding out for a founder effect at an early date, but, as your quote notes, it looks like the T's are the result of recent migrations. T originates in the upper Mediterranean basin to the Zagros mountains in Iran. One theory is that the Dir originate from a population that migrated into the Red Sea hills during the Neolithic, which also fits into the Ifat format. A real answer is going to take some additional DNA work.

Your quote from the spoiler:

 

[GeKo]

One of my ancestors is said to have stayed in Madagascar for sometime, even married and had kids there
I heard there are ppl their who claim that they have somali origins

 

[Grant]

The Khoisan were never in any Somali land. They used to live in the nonSomali parts Ethiopia though which is evident in the genetic footprint that they left.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_populations_of_Sub-Saharan_Africa

Population Language group n A B E1a E1b1a E1b1b E2 J R1b T

Somalis Cushitic (AA) 201 0.5 1.0 0 1.5 81.1 0.5 3.0 R1a=1 10.4 Sanchez2005[13

Half a percent A = Khoisan. http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Haplogroup_A_(Y-DNA)

I can't find it now, but I have seen a map that showed a big dip from Ethiopia into the inter riverine area. As the only game in town, the Khoisan were once ubiquitous.