Somali penunsila used to be called NEW ARABIA

[Factz]

Great! Please post. I would love to see anything produced by or on the Ajuraan.

Meanwhile, the oral traditions were recorded by Cerulli,. Cassanelli just analyzed them.

Revolvy is not much better than Wikipedia, but it is easy to get to online and this has the references and an abtiris for the Ajuraan clan for which I have other sources. There are those who say ( ( actually stated here) that even Bal'ad was Hawiyya.

https://www.revolvy.com/page/Ajuran-(clan)

"Ajuran (clan)
...
The Ajuran (Arabic: أجران) is a Hawiye subclan. Group members largely inhabit Kenya as well as Ethiopia; considerable numbers are also found in Somalia.[1][2]


Overview
The Ajuran clan's origins are found in the Ajuran Sultante, a Somali Muslimsultanate that ruled over large parts of the Horn of Africa in the Middle Ages.[3][4][5] Today they largely live in Kenya, the North Eastern Provinceand the Somali region of Ethiopia, but also in Somalia.

The Ajuraan largely speak the Somali language, but a big portion also speak the Borana language.[6]

The Ajuran are descendants of Alama who in turn is a son of Bal'ad who traces descent from Harmalle Samaale through multiple ancestors.

History
The Ajuran clan established the Garen Dynasty that ruled both Mogadishu Sultanate and Ajuran Empire during the middle ages.

Clan Tree
This Clan Tree is based on "Identities on the Move: Clanship and Pastoralism in Northern Kenya" by Gunther Schlee.[7]

-Samaale

• Harmalle
  • Bal'ad
    • Alama
      • Ajuran
        • Waaqle
        • Wallemugge
        • Saremugge
        • Tore
        • Dakhsore
        • Beidan
        • Badbeidan
        • Sanle

Notable Ajuran people

• Olol Dinle, Idhow Roble

References

1. Mohamed Haji Mukhtar (25 February 2003). Historical Dictionary of Somalia. Scarecrow Press. p. 35. ISBN 978-0-8108-6604-1.
2. Kenya National Assembly Official Record (Hansard). 1984-03-20.
3. Luling, Virginia (2002). Somali Sultanate: the Geledi city-state over 150 years. Transaction Publishers. p. 17. ISBN 978-1-874209-98-0.
4. Luc Cambrézy, Populations réfugiées: de l'exil au retour, p.316
5. Mukhtar, Mohamed Haji. "The Emergence and Role of Political Parties in the Inter-River Region of Somalia from 1947–1960". Ufahamu. 17 (2): 98.
6. Schlee, Günther; Watson, Elizabeth E. (2009-01-01). Changing Identifications and Alliances in North-East Africa. Berghahn Books. ISBN 9781845456030.
7. Schlee, Günther; Watson, Elizabeth E. (2009-01-01). Changing "

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If James has better information he needs to link it, which he has not done and which I do not think he can do. The only possible non Hawiyye in the mix is Bal'ad, @James Dahl .

Go ask the Ajurans yourself. They will tell you they are not Hawiye lol. I can't believe we're having a discussion about this. Your own revolvy tells you that Bal'ad is Harmaale Samaale.

"The Ajuran are descendants of Alama who in turn is a son of Bal'ad who traces descent from Harmalle Samaale"

I suggest you look into the abirsi page of Ajuran: http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=1595&abtirsiLang=1

The Ajuran clan ruled Hawiye, Rahanweyn, Madanle, Benadiri and others in southern/central Somalia and eastern Ethiopia. The kingdom was highly centralized and the Ajuran clan were top monarchy. No confederation and other nonsense you were spewing.

Ajuran Sultanate were known to be highly centralized and if they were made up of confederate states then that would make them a decentralized kingdom which isn't the case.

This source not only tells you they were a highly centralized kingdom but also ruled the benadir coast which you have denied multiple times.

This source is called Nation Building: Why Some Countries Come Together While Others Fall

Another great feature from the Ajuran Sultanate is they were great taxers and collected tribute from inner cities, nomads and farmers in the interior as well as products from the coastal cities. The Ajuran ruled their subjects with an iron fist with a powerful military of mounted guns that policed the state and the sophisticated architectures found on the Benadir coast and in the interior during the middle ages were all attributed by the Ajuran engineers.

This source is from Historical Dictionary of Somalia written by your favourite author.

 

[Grant]

Go ask the Ajurans yourself. They will tell you they are not Hawiye lol. I can't believe we're having a discussion about this. Your own revolvy tells you that Bal'ad is Harmaale Samaale.

"The Ajuran are descendants of Alama who in turn is a son of Bal'ad who traces descent from Harmalle Samaale"

I suggest you look into the abirsi page of Ajuran: http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=1595&abtirsiLang=1

The Ajuran clan ruled Hawiye, Rahanweyn, Madanle, Benadiri and others in southern/central Somalia and eastern Ethiopia. The kingdom was highly centralized and the Ajuran clan were top monarchy. No confederation and other nonsense you were spewing.

Ajuran Sultanate were known to be highly centralized and if they were made up of confederate states then that would make them a decentralized kingdom which isn't the case.

This source not only tells you they were a highly centralized kingdom but also ruled the benadir coast which you have denied multiple times.

This source is called Nation Building: Why Some Countries Come Together While Others Fall

Another great feature from the Ajuran Sultanate is they were great taxers and collected tribute from inner cities, nomads and farmers in the interior as well as products from the coastal cities. The Ajuran ruled their subjects with an iron first with a powerful military of mounted guns that policed the state and the sophisticated architectures found on the Benadir coast and in the interior during the middle ages were all attributed by the Ajuran engineers.

This source is from Historical Dictionary of Somalia written by your favourite author.

https://www.refworld.org/docid/592016fa4.html

"In correspondence with the Research Directorate, a Doctoral candidate at the University of Oxford who specializes in Somali studies, including clan conflicts, and who conducts field research in Somalia, stated that the Ajuran were formerly part of the Hawiye but "detached" from the Hawiye in the late 17th to early18th centuries (Doctoral candidate 20 Aug. 2016). Other sources describe the Ajuran as:

• "often seen as part of the Hawiye" (Austrian Red Cross and ACCORD Dec. 2009, 20); "Hawiye associates" (World Bank Group Jan. 2005, 56) or Hawiye "allied clan" (Ambroso March 2002, 11-12);
• a sub-clan of the Hawiye (ibid; Somaliland Press 21 May 2015; ITPCM Dec. 2013, 14; Abbink 2009, 28);

The Total Somali Clan Genealogy, produced by the African Studies Centre at Leiden University in the Netherlands, states that the lineage of the Ajuran descends from the Hawiye as follows: Hawiye (clan family) - Bah Girel (clan moiety/kinship) - Jambelle [Jambeele] (clan) - Ajuran (sub-clan) (Abbink 2009, 26-29). The descending lineages of the Ajuran are listed as: Garen, Gelberis, Yibidalla, Gashe, Dulhata, Waqle (ibid., 28)."

 

[Factz]

https://www.refworld.org/docid/592016fa4.html

"In correspondence with the Research Directorate, a Doctoral candidate at the University of Oxford who specializes in Somali studies, including clan conflicts, and who conducts field research in Somalia, stated that the Ajuran were formerly part of the Hawiye but "detached" from the Hawiye in the late 17th to early18th centuries (Doctoral candidate 20 Aug. 2016). Other sources describe the Ajuran as:

• "often seen as part of the Hawiye" (Austrian Red Cross and ACCORD Dec. 2009, 20); "Hawiye associates" (World Bank Group Jan. 2005, 56) or Hawiye "allied clan" (Ambroso March 2002, 11-12);
• a sub-clan of the Hawiye (ibid; Somaliland Press 21 May 2015; ITPCM Dec. 2013, 14; Abbink 2009, 28);

The Total Somali Clan Genealogy, produced by the African Studies Centre at Leiden University in the Netherlands, states that the lineage of the Ajuran descends from the Hawiye as follows: Hawiye (clan family) - Bah Girel (clan moiety/kinship) - Jambelle [Jambeele] (clan) - Ajuran (sub-clan) (Abbink 2009, 26-29). The descending lineages of the Ajuran are listed as: Garen, Gelberis, Yibidalla, Gashe, Dulhata, Waqle (ibid., 28)."

Dude you're a joke! Using U.N to explain the genealogy of Ajuran. I'm done!

I love how you ignored the other points I raised providing sources with it on top.

Besides, Ajuran being Hawiye is a modern and a political thing but lineage wise they are not Hawiye. They used to be bigger than Hawiye. Ajuran descent from Harmaale Samaale.

This is how their abtirsi go.

Stop conflating 4.5 politics with lineage and history.

 

[Grant]

Dude you're a joke! Using U.N to explain the genealogy of Ajuran. I'm done!

I love how you ignored the other points I raised providing sources with it on top.

Besides, Ajuran being Hawiye is a modern and a political thing but lineage wise they are not Hawiye. They used to be bigger than Hawiye. Ajuran descent from Harmaale Samaale.

This is how their abtirsi go.

Stop conflating 4.5 politics with lineage and history.

You are both linkless and pointless.

https://somalipeople.fandom.com/wiki/Abgaal

"There is no clear agreement on the clan and sub-clan structures and many lineages are omitted. The following listing is taken from the World Bank's Conflict in Somalia: Drivers and Dynamics from2005 and the United Kingdom's Home Officepublication, Somalia Assessment 2001.[3][4]"

Hawiye

• Karanle
  • Murusade
• Gorgate
  • Abgal
  • Udeejeen
  • Habargidir (Habar Gidir)
  • Sheikhal (Sheekhaal)
  • Duduble
• Gugun-Dhabe
• Rarane
• Haskul
• Jambeele
  • Hawadle
  • Galje'el
  • Ajuran
  • Dagodi"

------------------------------------------------------------

No, we have Ajuran traditions and writing scripts that tells us the exact history, not some oral traditions from other groups because it can be falsified most of the time.

Come back when you can supply the Ajuraan material you claim to have. I want to see those writing scripts/

 

[Factz]

You are both linkless and pointless.

https://somalipeople.fandom.com/wiki/Abgaal

"There is no clear agreement on the clan and sub-clan structures and many lineages are omitted. The following listing is taken from the World Bank's Conflict in Somalia: Drivers and Dynamics from2005 and the United Kingdom's Home Officepublication, Somalia Assessment 2001.[3][4]"

Hawiye

• Karanle
  • Murusade
• Gorgate
  • Abgal
  • Udeejeen
  • Habargidir (Habar Gidir)
  • Sheikhal (Sheekhaal)
  • Duduble
• Gugun-Dhabe
• Rarane
• Haskul
• Jambeele
  • Hawadle
  • Galje'el
  • Ajuran
  • Dagodi"

------------------------------------------------------------




Come back when you can supply the Ajuraan material you claim to have. I want to see those writing scripts/

Listen, you're a white man who doesn't know anything about tribes or lineage. I do and know people from Ajuran background. Your nonsensical links like the U.N and fandom page shouldn't be taken seriously.

I can't believe I'm arguing with you. You posted a fandom page while I posted an abtirsi page and showed you a genealogy source.

Jambeele is not a real clan you fool. It was a made up branch to unite other Samaale under Hawiye for political reasons. This is a new concept. Where is Bal'ad and where is Alama? You going to brush out their real lineage to fit into your false narrative?

Grant, you're repetitive and you've already lost the discussion. Give up old man because right now you look like an absolute fool.

 

[Grant]

Listen, you're a white man who doesn't know anything about tribes or lineage. I do and know people from Ajuran background. Your nonsensical links like the U.N and fandom page shouldn't be taken seriously.

I can't believe I'm arguing with you. You posted a fandom page while I posted an abtirsi page and showed you a genealogy source.

Jambeele is not a real clan you fool. It was a made up branch to unite other Samaale under Hawiye for political reasons. This is a new concept. Where is Bal'ad and where is Alama? You going to brush out their real lineage to fit into your false narrative?

Grant, you've already lost the discussion. Give up old man.

Your abtirsi page has no link and you clearly don't have the Ajuraan material you claimed to have.
You are a waste of time.

 

[Factz]

Your abtirsi page has no link and you clearly don't have the Ajuraan material you claimed to have.
You are a waste of time.

For the last time.

• Samaale
  • Harmalle
    • Bal'ad
      • Alama
        • Ajuran
          • Waaqle
          • Wallemugge
          • Saremugge
          • Tore
          • Dakhsore
          • Beidan
          • Badbeidan
          • Sanle

Here is the link: http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=1595&abtirsiLang=1

This is an abtirsi page. It's not from the U.N or Fandom page. Your links are not even considered a source, dumbass!

I have already posted Ajuran materials. Look back at the comments and sources I posted earlier but you ignored them.

You're the waste of time. Posting fandom page? Who does that? You're an absolute joke. Go log off and don't come back, you clown!

 

[Grant]

For the last time.

• Samaale
  • Harmalle
    • Bal'ad
      • Alama
        • Ajuran
          • Waaqle
          • Wallemugge
          • Saremugge
          • Tore
          • Dakhsore
          • Beidan
          • Badbeidan
          • Sanle

Here is the link: http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=1595&abtirsiLang=1

This is an abtirsi page. It's not from the U.N or Fandom page. Your links are not even considered a source, dumbass!

I have already posted Ajuran materials. Look back at the comments and sources I posted earlier but you ignored them.

You're the waste of time. Posting fandom page? Who does that? You're an absolute joke. Go log off and don't come back. You're a clown.

Thank you for the Abtirsi link, but note that there are many other versions. Jambeele was the mother of Alama, and you still don't have the Ajuraan scripts!

 

[Factz]

Thank you for the Abtirsi link, but note that there are many other versions Jambeele was the mother of Bal'ad.and you still don't have the Ajuraan scripts!

There is no "note". Jambeele is a modern political made up branch. You're conflating 4.5 politics with Ajuran lineage and history. It's disgusting. You don't speak for them.

I suggest you read this book differentiating lineage and alliances. Since you're a white man and don't know anything about Somalis. Go and have a read: https://books.google.nl/books?id=LL...AKHbWgD3cQ6AEIJTAC#v=onepage&q=ajuran&f=false

Yes I did. Why do you have to lie so much? I gave you the authors name like Andreas Wimmer, Michael Dumper and Bruce E. Stanley including their books.

They told you how much territory Ajuran controlled. How the Benadir coast and its ports was under Ajuran domain. How the Ajuran kingdom was highly centralized and were a maritime kingdom and with their maritime pursuits and history, they've established trading and diplomatic ties across the old world. How the Mudaffar dynasty was an Ajuran family and etc.

These are all considered Ajuran materials. Stop being a compulsive liar.

 

[Apollo]

4,000 year old early Pastoralist Kenyans cluster with ethnic Somalis and this guy is arguing that Benadiris are the rightful owners of South Somalia.

 

[Grant]

There is no "note". Jambeele is a modern political made up branch. You're conflating 4.5 politics with Ajuran lineage and history. It's disgusting. You don't speak for them.

I suggest you read this book differentiating lineage and alliances. Since you're a white man and don't know anything about Somalis. Go and have a read: https://books.google.nl/books?id=LL...AKHbWgD3cQ6AEIJTAC#v=onepage&q=ajuran&f=false

Yes I did. Why do you have to lie so much? I gave you the authors name like Andreas Wimmer, Michael Dumper and Bruce E. Stanley including their books.

They told you how much territory Ajuran controlled. How the Benadir coast and its ports was under Ajuran domain. How the Ajuran kingdom was highly centralized and were a maritime kingdom that with their maritime pursuits and history, they've established trading and diplomatic ties across the old world. How the Mudaffar dynasty was an Ajuran family and etc.

These are all considered Ajuran materials. Stop being a compulsive liar.

This is all distractive Bullsit. You claimed to have actual Ajuraan scripts.

 

[NFD]

You are both linkless and pointless.

https://somalipeople.fandom.com/wiki/Abgaal

"There is no clear agreement on the clan and sub-clan structures and many lineages are omitted. The following listing is taken from the World Bank's Conflict in Somalia: Drivers and Dynamics from2005 and the United Kingdom's Home Officepublication, Somalia Assessment 2001.[3][4]"

Hawiye

• Karanle
  • Murusade
• Gorgate
  • Abgal
  • Udeejeen
  • Habargidir (Habar Gidir)
  • Sheikhal (Sheekhaal)
  • Duduble
• Gugun-Dhabe
• Rarane
• Haskul
• Jambeele
  • Hawadle
  • Galje'el
  • Ajuran
  • Dagodi"

------------------------------------------------------------




Come back when you can supply the Ajuraan material you claim to have. I want to see those writing scripts/

You're out of your depth here. Neither Degodi nor Ajuraan and possibly Gaaljecel are Hawiye. This is a common misconception but these are my people.

 

[Factz]

This is all distractive Bullsit. You claimed to have actual Ajuraan scripts.

Look old man. Everyone here sees you as a fool and no one here takes you seriously.

How is it bullshit for historians recording Ajuran history?

 

[NFD]

4,000 year old early Pastoralist Kenyans cluster with ethnic Somalis and this guy is arguing that Benadiris are the rightful owners of South Somalia.

Allegedly falsified Wikipedia's aside old school Somalis like our parents have nothing to hide and no reason to make anything up because they arent ashamed of being pastoralists or anything else Somalis were and they state that those people came to live among us.

 

[Grant]

Look old man. Everyone here sees you as a fool and no one here takes you seriously.

How is it bullshit for historians recording Ajuran history?

Insults are no substitute for the Ajuraan scripts you claimed to have. Without them, what the Devil are the historians recording?

 

[Factz]

Insults are no substitute for the Ajuraan scripts you claimed to have. Without them, what the Devil are the historians recording?

They record Ajuran traditions coming from Berbera and defeating the Oromo invasion from the west and a Portuguese incursion from the east. The Ajuran sub-clan Moorshe establishing settlements in Mogadishu and becoming the majority in the city. They establish an elite ruling class called the Mudaffar dynasty. Being a hydraulic empire and leaving an extensive architectural legacy in southern Somalia. The Ajuran clan being top monarchy and ruling the Hawiye, Rahanweyn, Madanle, Benadiri and others.

I can't cover all their oral records but these historians are simply recording them. I gave you the source. Go read them.

 

[Grant]

4,000 year old early Pastoralist Kenyans cluster with ethnic Somalis and this guy is arguing that Benadiris are the rightful owners of South Somalia.

I argue no such thing. My feeling is that the Benadiris should have claims in the Benadir just as others have claims in their traditional areas. Not all Somalis are Samaale and I don't feel that any long-term resident population should be excluded, expropriated, disenfranchised or expelled.

 

[Grant]

They record Ajuran traditions coming from Berbera and defeating the Oromo invasion from the west and a Portuguese incursion from the east. The Ajuran sub-clan Moorshe establishing settlements in Mogadishu and becoming the majority in the city. They establish an elite ruling class called the Mudaffar dynasty. Being a hydraulic empire and leaving an extensive architectural legacy in southern Somalia. The Ajuran clan being top monarchy and ruling the Hawiye, Rahanweyn, Madanle, Benadiri and others.

I can't cover all their oral records but these historians are simply recording them. I gave you the source. Go read them.

Total linkless and useless BS. Don't come back without the Ajuraan scripts.

 

[Grant]

You're out of your depth here. Neither Degodi nor Ajuraan and possibly Gaaljecel are Hawiye. This is a common misconception but these are my people.

I notice the "possibly" in your statement, which I think is appropriate. The whole point of Gunther Schlee's Identities on the Move was that the clans change names and affiliation depending upon immediate political expediency.

Buur ahow ama mid ku tirsan. Be safe as a Shegad.

Despite what you as a member think, and despite James Dahl's collection of abtirsis, there is no general consensus on the relationship of the clans.

 

[Factz]

Total linkless and useless BS. Don't come back without the Ajuraan scripts.

I've given you the authors name and books that record Ajuran traditions. That's more than enough.

I've also given you a link to understand the dynamics of political alliance and should not be conflated with Ajuran lineage or history. My job is here is done.