Somali penunsila used to be called NEW ARABIA

[Grant]

I've given you the authors name and books that record Ajuran traditions. That's more than enough.

I've also given you a link to understand the dynamics of political alliance and should not be conflated with Ajuran lineage or history. My job is here is done.

Thanks be to God. We don't need more nothing.

 

[NFD]

I notice the "possibly" in your statement, which I think is appropriate. The whole point of Gunther Schlee's Identities on the Move was that the clans change names and affiliation depending upon immediate political expediency.

Buur ahow ama mid ku tirsan. Be safe as a Shegad.

Despite what you as a member think, and despite James Dahl's collection of abtirsis, there is no general consensus on the relationship of the clans.

The possibly is for Gaaljecel since I've heard different opinions on them although it's leaning towards them being not but the Degodi and Ajuraan are most definitely not.

 

[Grant]

The possibly is for Gaaljecel since I've heard different opinions on them although it's leaning towards them being not but the Degodi and Ajuraan are most definitely not.

This is from Gunther Schlee (https://www.eth.mpg.de/schlee ) Identities on the Move, Clanship and Pastoralism in Northern Kenya, 1989.

Schlee states on page 213 that he never found two identical Ajuraan abtirses and just quotes three versions that he says are as good as any other. (Jump below the description of the diagram.)

indicate, show a high degree of consistency."

-------------------------------------------------

So, there are problems:

Aqiil is not a recognzed son of Abu Talib.

The ascending names with arrows are Somali, not Arabic. "But how these ancestors, all of whom have non-Muslim names, are linked to the Quraish, the tribe of the prophet, is left to the discretion of every individual Ajuraan, as long as he gets to Aqiil bin Abu Talib somehow." (page 215)

If the Ajuraan are Arabs, as.claimed, they would be J1. As Hawiyye, they could be E1b1b.

@Apollo

 

[Grant]

If the Ajuraan are Arabs, as.claimed, they would be J1. As Hawiyye, they could be E1b1b.

@Apollo

Should be a simple question: Are the Ajuraan J1 or E1b1b?

 

[Grant]

@Apollo

It would be nice to have direct dna data for confirmation, but we are in pretty good shape without. Given the Ajuraan practice of jus primae noctis, theoretically for over a hundred years, there should be pockets of J1 in any group over which they ruled. I will change the question to ask if you have found any?

You don't have to reveal any personal information, and you can hedge your bet if the data is limited; but, lacking answers from you to both questions, I will assume that you agree that Schlee and logic are correct.

@NFD ,

I think this is as important to Somali history as are Shaykhs Isaaq and Darood. If you will share your results here on the Spot, I will send you a 23andme kit. This regardless of what Apollo does.

 

[Apollo]

@Grant

There is no significant Arab admixture in South Somalia, not even among Benadiris, who have more Gujarati blood than Peninsular Arabian.

 

[Grant]

@Grant

There is no significant Arab admixture in South Somalia, not even among Benadiris, who have more Gujarati blood than Peninsular Arabian.

Thank you, Sir. I think Gujarati trade with Somalia and the rest of the East African coast has been greatly underestimated. The marble work in the early Mogadishu mosques was from there.