Somalia 's new security plan

[DrippinglyWet]

But we don't share ONE history.

The first step to becoming cured is being HONEST.
Once we are honest about our history, we can move forward by treating the issues.

Disease number 1) Somali clans are independent "states" who hate other states more than they do foreign countries. ( how do we combine these "states" and maintain autonomy: Federalism.

Having every clan split up you will just change the battlefield from skinnies with AKs to Skinnys with Tanks and Jets. You're treating a syptom not a cause the moment Somalia is dismembered the symptoms will arise once again in the successor states, what then ? will every sub sub clan get their own state and what after that etc.
Clan Federalism is a cancer and only a centralised state will spell the doom of qabill.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Classic somali indhoadeeg, they all know everything you said here is true but still in denial

They like arguing for arguments sake, or lying just to lie. It's actually incredible to witness.
It's like this forum is a fantasy world for literature writers.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Having every clan split up you will just change the battlefield from skinnies with AKs to Skinnys with Tanks and Jets. You're treating a syptom not a cause the moment Somalia is dismembered the symptoms will arise once again in the successor states what then will every sub sub clan get then own state and what after that etc.
Clan Federalism is a cancer and only a centralised state will spell the doom of qabill.

The "clans" are split up and always have been. Federalism means a mixed army, one constitution, one foreign policy among other things.
"Centralism" is contrary to our very identity as an ethnic group.

 

[DrippinglyWet]

The "clans" are split up and always have been. Federalism means a mixed army, one constitution, one foreign policy among other things.
"Centralism" is contrary to our very identity as an ethnic group.

Contrary, maybe but it is the solution seccionism is a rabbit hole that never ends.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

Somalis are actually known to have lived in the North and migrated Southwards. No, the Ajuuraan didn't rule the North of Somalia.

I don't think you are grasping my point..

The point I am making is that Somalis have never been united and that the concept of "Somalinimo" (Somali unity/patriotism) only came about because we were ALL under the Colonialism threat. It lasted only for a little while before we started fighting each other again.

Somalis have always been in competition with each other and with other Africans for living space and power.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. All of Southern Somalia (i.e from Kismaayo to Shabelle), Central Somalia (all the way to Hobyo) and most of Eastern Ethiopia was under one Sultanate(Ajuuran). So what do you mean Somalis were never united when 80 % of Somalis population was under a central rule for over 400 years?

"Through their control of the region's wells, the Garen rulers effectively held a monopoly over their nomadic subjects as they were the only hydraulic empire in Africa during their reign. Large wells made out of limestone were constructed throughout the state, which attracted Somali and Oromo nomads with their livestock."

"The State collected tribute from the farmers in the form of harvested products like durra, sorghum and bun, and from the nomads, cattle, camels and goats. The collecting of tribute was done by a wazir. Luxury goods imported from foreign lands were also presented as gifts to the Garen rulers by the coastal sultans of the state."

Forget about Somalis, they even ruled over Oromos. The first Sultanate in the North-East inland only appeared in the early 20th century. So what Sultanates are you even talking about?

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

The "clans" are split up and always have been. Federalism means a mixed army, one constitution, one foreign policy among other things.
"Centralism" is contrary to our very identity as an ethnic group.

Ok i get were you're coming from, but if the bantus who use to have tribes are able to unite since they're forming the EAF, then whats stopping us from abandoning qabiil as well?


If we abandon qabiil collectively that wouldn't mean we're losing our identity. Family & nation should be the only things that matter.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. All of Southern Somalia (i.e from Kismaayo to Shabelle), Central Somalia (all the way to Hobyo) and most of Eastern Ethiopia was under one Sultanate(Ajuuran). So what do you mean Somalis were never united when 80 % of Somalis population was under a central rule for over 400 years?

"Through their control of the region's wells, the Garen rulers effectively held a monopoly over their nomadic subjects as they were the only hydraulic empire in Africa during their reign. Large wells made out of limestone were constructed throughout the state, which attracted Somali and Oromo nomads with their livestock."

Forget about Somalis, they also ruled over Oromos.

Dear God. "most" does not mean "ALL".
As for 80%, again not all Somalis migrated southwards that early in history so that's debatable.
400 years? Where are you getting this false information from?

If we can't agree on such a basic concept, there really is no point in this discussion is there.

 

[Gambar]

War is very favourable for Somaliland so I greatly welcome it. a will be viewed as the aggressor uniting the populace, the UN and the beesha caalamka will be forced to intervene for mediation talks and address the elephant in the room resulting in the legitimacy of Somaliland in the eyes of the World. So I say bring it on.

Typical Somalilander.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Ok i get were you're coming from, but if the bantus who use to have tribes are able to unite since they're forming the EAF, then whats stopping us from abandoning qabiil as well?


If we abandon qabiil collectively that wouldn't mean we're losing our identity. Family & nation should be the only things that matter.

I'm sure we can get over it but there have to be baby steps made in building trust and cooperation.

 

[Gambar]

Dear God. "most" does not mean "ALL".

If we can't agree on such a basic concept, there really is no point in this discussion is there.

Ignore him walaashiis.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Ignore him walaashiis.

You're right.
I fell for it. I actually thought he wanted a normal debate. My fault.

 

[Ferrari]

Xoolo? Or do we inherently believe that we are different groups competing with EACH OTHER for existence.

The "qabiil" is a nation state in the Somali world. Historically, we were not united or ruled by a common ruler. Yes, we had a united effort against the Habesha during Futuh Al Habesha, however afterwards, we were clearly under different Sultanates. The concept of "Somalinimo" is a modern construct which only worked during the efforts to free ourselves from colonialism.

That experiment was short lived thanks to a megalomaniac ruler who stoked the fires of our inherent belief that we are each other's enemies.

When we stop lying to each other and stop pretending there is such a thing as "Somalinimo", we may be able to move forward and form a union based on truth and pragmatism.

you may believe that but I don't. No one will force anyone who doesn't believe somalinimo to accept it.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

you may believe that but I don't. No one will force anyone who doesn't believe somalinimo to accept it.

You don't believe in what? History? The truth?

Somalis never had one ruler until after colonialism: FACT
Somalis have always fought with each other over land and power: FACT
Somalis are independent nomads who don't like central rule: FACT
Somalinimo was born out of necessity: FACT

Have I stumbled into a creative writing forum.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

Dear God. "most" does not mean "ALL".

Who ruled the Sahara deserts and the nomadic communities that live there? What you're not understanding is that there is no economic incentive to rule over the North which is arid scrub lands.

Everything of value was ruled by a central Sultanate. The entire Indian Ocean came under the Ajuuran to protect their trade. The first "Sultanate" that appeared in the North East region was only 100 years ago which shows how useless the land is.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Who ruled the Sahara deserts and the nomadic communities that live there? What you're not understanding is that there is no economic incentive to rule over the North which is arid scrub lands.

Yet you still claim to be Dhulbahante, a clan that lives in these so called "arid scrub lands" or the "sahara desert". Do you even know how to locate "Sool" on a map?
Miskiin. :siilaanyolaugh:
One minute Ajuuraan ruled all of Somalia, next there is no "economic incentive" in the North.
Ilaahoow ha na waalin.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

Who ruled the Sahara deserts and the nomadic communities that live there? What you're not understanding is that there is no economic incentive to rule over the North which is arid scrub lands.

We're a nomadic tribe, and the best grazing land which is Hawd belonged to us which our camel grazed in. We only used Sool/Toghdeer for it's wells in the dry season.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

We're a nomadic tribe, and the best grazing land which is Hawd belonged to us which our camel grazed in. We only used Sool for it's wells.

Please iga aamus. Everything you write is just ridiculous. You're the worst shegato on this forum.

 

[Ferrari]

You don't believe in what? History? The truth?

Somalis never had one ruler until after colonialism: FACT
Somalis have always fought with each other over land and power: FACT
Somalis are independent nomads who don't like central rule: FACT
Somalinimo was born out of necessity: FACT

Have I stumbled into a creative writing forum.

wasn't most of africa the same before the whites came? How are we any different? Being the same people doesn't mean we have to have had a central ruler. We do have the same culture and speak the same language. I can't believe I am arguing for this. What exactly are you saying? We are different people? The only differences we have had and still do have is politics. That's it. We are the same people in every other way.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

wasn't most of africa the same before the whites came? How are we any different? Being the same people doesn't mean we have to have had a central ruler. We do have the same culture and speak the same language. I can't believe I am arguing for this. What exactly are you saying? We are different people? The only differences we have had and still do have is politics. That's it. We are the same people in every other way.

I said that we hail from clans who were and still are in direct competition with each other, hence our difficulty in forming a normal country.

I didn't say we hail from different ethnic groups.
I didn't say that we don't speak the same language.

I can't simplify this further. Either you get it or you don't.

 

[Ferrari]

I said that we hail from clans who were and still are in direct competition with each other, hence our difficulty in forming a normal country.

I didn't say we hail from different ethnic groups.
I didn't say that we don't speak the same language.

I can't simplify this further. Either you get it or you don't.

semantics.