Somalis Kingdoms and Sultanates?

[Idilinaa]

Wikipedia lied to me (again). I need to stop using that site for history that I'm not very well versed in

It's actually taken from Lee Cassaneli , he has a lot inaccuracies in his book ''The Shaping of Somali Society''. I disagree with many things he says in it.

The Habr Yunis sultanate is flat out made up, i looked through the ref lists, non mention this sultanate to exist.
I was confused when Puntite Queen linked me it. I was like i never heard of it.

Tbh, sometimes I feel the line between city state and kingdom/sultanate are blurred. Then again maybe I keep thinking that every city state should be like the powerful ones of Europe.

Could you inform me as to why Majeerteen/Hobyo were the few in the region to rule over wider territory like that? What developments did they have that say, Mogadishu or Berbera didn't that lead them to sultanate status?

Lastly, why did it take Bari until the 17th-19th century to unite into a sultanate?

Yes Step a Side talkes about this as well

Usually when a city becomes powerful ,larger and wealthy it expands to overtake the surrounding regions and country side, through conquest or through political and economic influence. Most large kingdoms emerge from the locus point of a city.

Kinda like Roman Empire, expanded from the city of Rome and the whole empire became named after it. It became its cultural/political center.

Mogadishu and Zeila was like that as well throughout the medieval period. All other provinces/cities became known as confederation of Zayla. And the Zayla based province of Awdal became associated with the whole empire.

It didn't take them until 17th century, they were the only Sultanate/Kingdom that survived after collapse semi-intact. It used to also include Sanaag.

The earliest mentions of an organized sultanate in Bari is mentioned in the 900s. The first interior muslim city is metioned in nugaal in the 1100s and the modern unified sultanate is recorded in traditions to be founded in the 1420 and in the 1500s it is mentioned as a Kingdom that is under Awdal, but under a seperate leadership. It re-organized under a new Uthman Mahmuud dynasty in 1620 by the 17th sultan in line Uthman Mahmuud the 1st

 

[The Macrobian]

If you want kingdoms in antiquity look at the himyarites Sabaeans qatabanians minaeans hadramis awsanians axunites barbarians azanians puntites a-c group Nubia these were all kingdoms that were ancestral to the Somali people

 

[Idilinaa]

If you want kingdoms in antiquity look at the himyarites Sabaeans qatabanians minaeans hadramis awsanians axunites barbarians azanians puntites a-c group Nubia these were all kingdoms that were ancestral to the Somali people

None of them were Somali Kingdoms, some of what you mentioned aren't even kingdoms. Puntite was a trading emporium which might have covered different geographies of East Africa depending on the expedition, the earliest expedition was Somalia.

In antiquity Somalis were separated into multiple independent city states that was governed by wealthy merchants.

That's how it operates it's a council of elders, who elect/nominate a titular leadership. They are not collectively ruled by a single monarch , so they are independent from eachother and decentralized

They probably operated similar to other indepedent city states in the ancient world described here:

This is how some of the earliest Somali coastal towns like especially Mogadishu 1100s, and Zayla in the early 800s are described in Arabic sources and later Barawa by the portuguese in the 1500s as having no King and ruled by a council of clan elders or sheikhs as they sometimes call them.

Map of it.

A thread that covers that history: Mosylon for example was mentioned to be the merchant capital of East Africa.

 

[NidarNidar]

None of them were Somali Kingdoms, some of what you mentioned aren't even kingdoms. Puntite was a trading emporium which might have covered different geographies of East Africa depending on the expedition, the earliest expedition was Somalia.

In antiquity Somalis were separated into multiple independent city states that was governed by wealthy merchants.



Map of it.

A thread that covers that history: Mosylon for example was mentioned to be the merchant capital of East Africa.

Where did you get that map? any more info about Deire.

edit did a bit of research:

Deire is located on a promontory (modern Ras Siyyan) on the western side of the Bab-el-Mandeb strait, located between the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden.

It looks like a natural port, Ras means cape/head and similar other Somali ports.

 

[Idilinaa]

Where did you get that map? any more info about Deire.

edit did a bit of research:

Deire is located on a promontory (modern Ras Siyyan) on the western side of the Bab-el-Mandeb strait, located between the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden.

View attachment 346534
Looks like a natural port.

That map was shared by the same twitter user that shared a study on a wealthy Somali merchant and legionary in Rome, Malandro

It looks similar to Hafun which is also a promontory with a natural harbour. They should definitely do some excavations on it soon, so we can look at it's production , maybe if are lucky they will discover a 2.000 year old surviving city ruins under sand dunes the way they did with Hafun.

Archaeologist Work in the Ancient city of Opone (Hafun)

 

[The Macrobian]

None of them were Somali Kingdoms, some of what you mentioned aren't even kingdoms. Puntite was a trading emporium which might have covered different geographies of East Africa depending on the expedition, the earliest expedition was Somalia.

In antiquity Somalis were separated into multiple independent city states that was governed by wealthy merchants.



Map of it.

A thread that covers that history: Mosylon for example was mentioned to be the merchant capital of East Africa.

Southern Arabians and Axumites have descendants in modern day Somalia whom are the Sab, Gabooye and Dir Clans
Somalis are descendants of certain nubian groups watch kermatrix's videos on this

 

[NidarNidar]

Southern Arabians and Axumites have descendants in modern day Somalia whom are the Sab, Gabooye and Dir Clans
Somalis are descendants of certain nubian groups watch kermatrix's videos on this

The descendants of the Axumites are primarily the Tigrinya and Tigre people, with around 60% carrying the E haplogroup. Both T-L208 and its variants are found among the Tigrinya, Tigre, and Amhara populations, but the lineages differ. The T-L208 in the Amhara is a mix of two sources: one originating from the Dir people (associated with men who remained in fortified cities after the Futuh) and another ancient lineage that arrived from Sudan via the Sinai. In contrast, the Somali T haplogroup (specifically T-BY181210) is unique to Somalis, with its closest genetic connections found in the Makkah and Asir regions of Saudi Arabia, rather than Africa.

The Gaboye and Yibir groups predominantly carry the E-V32 haplogroup, which is a common marker among Cushitic-speaking populations. Alongside E-V32, there are occasional occurrences of haplogroups A and B, which are also typical in Cushitic populations. Additionally, the presence of J1 haplogroups, with a TMRCA closely aligned with that of the Dir T lineage, suggests a shared migration timeline. This genetic evidence points to the possibility that these groups arrived together or during the same historical period, contributing to the diverse genetic landscape of the region.

 

[Idilinaa]

The descendants of the Axumites are primarily the Tigrinya and Tigre people, with around 60% carrying the E haplogroup. Both T-L208 and its variants are found among the Tigrinya, Tigre, and Amhara populations, but the lineages differ. The T-L208 in the Amhara is a mix of two sources: one originating from the Dir people (associated with men who remained in fortified cities after the Futuh) and another ancient lineage that arrived from Sudan via the Sinai. In contrast, the Somali T haplogroup (specifically T-BY181210) is unique to Somalis, with its closest genetic connections found in the Makkah and Asir regions of Saudi Arabia, rather than Africa.

View attachment 346557

The Gaboye and Yibir groups predominantly carry the E-V32 haplogroup, which is a common marker among Cushitic-speaking populations. Alongside E-V32, there are occasional occurrences of haplogroups A and B, which are also typical in Cushitic populations. Additionally, the presence of J1 haplogroups, with a TMRCA closely aligned with that of the Dir T lineage, suggests a shared migration timeline. This genetic evidence points to the possibility that these groups arrived together or during the same historical period, contributing to the diverse genetic landscape of the region.

I don't think Tigre or Tigrinya are their descendants of Geez the language spoken by the Axumites.

I have spoken to quite a few linguists, and read literature review about it and they believe it forms its own seperate branch in among the ethio-semetic language .

With that said there is no doubt that Tigre, Tigrinya, Beja etc formed a apart of the Kingdom and it's population.

It's really odd how the language became extinct, only survived as a liturgical language. Unlike Latin and Persian which never died just evolved.

 

[Zak12]

With that said there is no doubt that Tigre, Tigrinya, Beja etc formed a apart of the Kingdom and it's population.

Its funny how Amhara sometimes claim Aksum too despite being a totally different branch of Ethiosemitic and not a single Aksumite site has been found in the Amhara region. Amhara were Semitized Agaws, a people who at best lived in the peripheral of Aksum's heartlands.

 

[Idilinaa]

Its funny how Amhara sometimes claim Aksum too despite being a totally different branch of Ethiosemitic and not a single Aksumite site has been found in the Amhara region. Amhara were Semitized Agaws, a people who at best lived in the peripheral of Aksum's heartlands.

You are right they lived in the mountain periphery ''where it snows'', in a place where the Axumite kings used to banish dissidents into.