The ones i've seen online are terrible.
No but i can make one. I could also make one also of middle ages as well, as aside by side contrast. Add a page references to it.
Somalis Kingdoms and Sultanates?
- Thread starter Nin123
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No but i can make one. I could also make one also of middle ages as well, as aside by side contrast. Add a page references to it.
Not many Somali clan chiefdoms have evolved considerably to being considered states/sultanates, apart from few; like for instance:majertenia and geledi which is more like a city state. Somalis lack historical integrity due to qabyaalad
No evidence of both even existing, but hypothetical fantastical clan empires are being invented into history for fkd purposes. Araweello is more real than ajuran and hiraab if we are going off conjectural evidence.
Lol Hiraab and especially Ajuran did exist
Majerteen didn't evolve out of a cheifdomship btw. It was part of a larger non-clanal sultanate which ecompassed all of hartis and that sultanate was a tributary vasal to Awdal but it fragmented in the early 1600s which is when it re-organized.
Geledi as well, which was one of the vassals and other surviving cities like Luuq much like Harar as well was connected to larger polity , they didn't evolve out of chieftainships.
Cheifdomships and single city states and seperate states were due to a collapse in the 1600-1700s that fragmented the region. Before this the whole region was broken into provinces governed by various emirs, naibs, vizers under a sultan
Hiraab did rule over Xamar, but Xamar was more or less a city state with a council under a titular leadership in the 1800s. It wasn't a wide teritory and/or a collection of towns under one leadership like Majerteen/Hobyo etc
and Ajuuran was a local nickname for taxing and administrating authorities, not much different to what Majerteen referred to their own urban admins as Saladiin's. Are we going to refer to a Saladiin sultanate and saladiin empire?
You can't fault Somalis for faulty research and representation by foreign orientalist writers.
And a big large sultanate that extended over the southern coast and into the interior reaching Hadiyah and with its commercial capital Mogadishu, was decribed by foreign visitors , in quite detail. But just like Awdal it wasn't a clan empire
Majerteen didn't evolve out of a cheifdomship btw. It was part of a larger non-clanal sultanate which ecompassed all of hartis and that sultanate was a tributary vasal to Awdal but it fragmented in the early 1600s which is when it re-organized.
Geledi as well, which was one of the vassals and other surviving cities like Luuq much like Harar as well was connected to larger polity , they didn't evolve out of chieftainships.
Cheifdomships and single city states and seperate states were due to a collapse in the 1600-1700s that fragmented the region.
Hiraab did rule over Xamar, but Xamar was more or less a city state with a council under a titular leadership in the 1800s. It wasn't a wide teritory and/or a collection of towns under one leadership like Majerteen/Hobyo etc
and Ajuuran was a local nickname for taxing and administrating authorities, not much different to what Majerteen referred to their own urban admins as Saladiin's. Are we going to refer to a Saladiin sultanate and saladiin empire?
You can't fault Somalis for faulty research and representation by foreign orientalist writers.
And a big large sultanate that extended over the southern coast and into the interior reaching Hadiyah and with its commercial capital Mogadishu, was decribed by foreign visitors , in quite detail. But just like Awdal it wasn't a clan empire
Habar Younis wrote something about a Sultanate on Wiki but I have never heard of such a thing. What are your thoughts on that?
Habr Yunis Sultanate - Wikipedia
Habar Younis wrote something about a Sultanate on Wiki but I have never heard of such a thing. What are your thoughts on that?
Habr Yunis Sultanate - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Sounds made up , it's probably written by a Somaliland nationalist that attempts to create secessionist grounds to argue from.
The only two real sultanates was hobyo & majerteen in the 1700s-1800s and (Warsangeli could losely fit into this)
Not the Geledis? So how did they defeat Ethiopia, extract tribute from Oman and became one of the most powerful polities in East Africa if they were just a city state?
Geledi was a powerful city state, that had the ability to extend it's political influence into the coast. It came from Geledi trying their best to gain a coastal outlet of their own and expand their markets for export, so in a way it could be seen as a sultanate but it was mainly headquartered in Afgooye.
Regular rural ogaden Somali clans defeated Ethiopia numerous times lool , not just geledi. Almost everyone even Luuq defeated them. Harar even did defeat them before disarming happened and the pre-emptive exit that left them unguarded
So something similar like the historical Republic of Venice, a city state that also had extended influence/control over parts of the Mediterranean with Venice at its main stronghold
Kinda, it extended control over in the interior trade routes and levied tribute and taxes from the coast. It had economic wealth from agricultural products and iron and cotton production which it used to expand it's influence and regional powers.
@Idilinaa I recently watched this video and you can see a lot of the distinctly Somali culture in Harar. How it was a Somali trade route, camel caravans, the stone city similiar to other Somali towns, the camel meat, the craftsman, the hyena gates being called waraabe gate. Even the craftsmen area is called giirgiir, which is the same as the Somali word gariir. The wooden doors and balconies.
It highlights a lot of the things you have been talking about on here.
It highlights a lot of the things you have been talking about on here.
It's obvious to any casual Somali unlooker. A lot of what they mistakenly believe is ''Uniquely Harari' culture is actually just copy and paste of Somali culture you find elsewhere and in other cities and in general. It shows that Harar was essentially just a Somali city with a majority Somali population until recently.
Even these wooden slates/boards we call 'looh'', they hold up as artifacts of culture in that same video. This is how Somalis teach and learn Quran , by writing on wooden slates with ink.
The boards displayed are carved in the same manner and style as well.
Qur'anic writing board, mid 20th century Unknown artist, Somalia
Qur'anic writing board, Somalia ^ Minneapolis Institute of Art
In Islamic Africa, the main usage of Qurβanic boards is to learn how to read and write the Arabic language, which leads to reading and memorizing verses from the Qurβan. In Somalia these boards are called loox. Before the use of paper, the loox was the main tool for the education of youth. It...
collections.artsmia.org
A tradition used to this day:
This is also described by the Portuguese in the town of Maydh in the 1500s just in case some Harari pseudo historian claims we got it from them. It mentions the big School where kids wrote on ink wooden boards
Portuguese description of Maydh in the 1500s
Apparently all the inhabitants ran away when they saw the Portuguese coming, but the Portuguese mention that there were two mosques and a school, probably a dugsi, where they had wooden boards and ink, Loox.
www.somalispot.com
The manuscript/bookbinding culture is Somali as well, its literally copy and paste of the same style you find Merca and other cities. Most of what they display as harari manuscripts are probably Somali as well, since Burton and others described the extensive collections and private libraries that was kept by Somalis inside the city.
The authentic chronicles that Cerulli uncovered/published ''Tarikh Al Mulukh(The History of Kings), Tarikh Al-Wali Asma(The History of the Surpeme Rulers) and Tarikh Al-Mujahid(The History of the Holy War) was in the hands of Somalis as well or copied from us.
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It's obvious to any casual Somali unlooker. A lot of what they mistakenly believe is ''Uniquely Harari' culture is actually just copy and paste of Somali culture you find elsewhere and in other cities and in general. It shows that Harar was essentially just a Somali city with a majority Somali population until recently.
Even these wooden slates/boards we call 'looh'', they hold up as artifacts of culture in that same video. This is distinctly and uniquely how Somalis teach and learn Quran , by writing on wooden slates with ink.
They are carved in the same manner as well.
Qur'anic writing board, mid 20th century Unknown artist, Somalia
Qur'anic writing board, Somalia ^ Minneapolis Institute of Art
In Islamic Africa, the main usage of Qurβanic boards is to learn how to read and write the Arabic language, which leads to reading and memorizing verses from the Qurβan. In Somalia these boards are called loox. Before the use of paper, the loox was the main tool for the education of youth. It...collections.artsmia.org
A tradition used to this day:
This is also described by the Portuguese in the town of Maydh in the 1500s just in case some Harari pseudo historian claims we got it from them. It mentions the big School where kids wrote on ink wooden boards
Portuguese description of Maydh in the 1500s
Apparently all the inhabitants ran away when they saw the Portuguese coming, but the Portuguese mention that there were two mosques and a school, probably a dugsi, where they had wooden boards and ink, Loox.www.somalispot.com
The manuscript/bookbinding culture is Somali as well, its literally copy and paste of the same style you find Merca and other cities. Most of what they display as harari manuscripts are probably Somali as well, since Burton and others described the extensive collections and private libraries that was kept by Somalis.
The authentic chronicles that Cerulli uncovered/published ''Tarikh Al Mulukh(The History of Kings), Tarikh Al-Wali Asma(The History of the Surpeme Rulers) and Tarikh Al-Mujahid(The History of the Holy War) was in the hands of Somalis as well or copied from us.
Yes, it is still in use today
Btw i seperate that history in two periods. ''The Era of Emirs'' and ''The Era of Sheikhs''
Garaad Awal
War is coming.
Those were tribal chiefdoms who ruled over their tribes. Every Somali tribe was like that. There was not a single Kingdom in Somaliweyn since the 16th century (fall of Adal in SL & Eastern Ethiopia).
Not even remotely true. Majeerteen, Hobyo, Hiraab, Geledi sultanates as well as the Harar Emirate were all kingdoms. They all collected taxes, had real bureaucracies, markets, centralization ect
A chiefdom means no social classes meaning no cities. One of the most famous and successful Somalis of the 19th century was Sharmarke Ali Saleh, a merchant who took control of Zeila and had influence over trade across the northern Horn. Does that sound like simple chiefdom stuff to you? You are basically dunking on your fellow Isaaqs lmao
Hobyo and Majerteen was neither tribal cheiftanships. They were fully fledgling states and Kingdoms, with professional armies, defined territories, flags, taxation/revenue collection system, bureaucracies ( broken into sharifs, wiziers, qadis and naibs governing the various coastal towns and cordinating rural side production). Those people were appointed into position as well. State controlled industries/markets. Defined social strata between classes of producers, labourers and non-producers.
And they governed over subjects that were not even Majerteen is proof of them being non-clanal, led armies that were diverse as well and with Hobyo it was the most pronounced they included various clans into their leadership, Ogadenians were the Qadis/judges in the administration, Habr Gidir was part of the upper ranks in the administration and some governors were even Tumaal/Madhiban and one of the right hand man of the Sultan was Madhiban.
Clan cheiftanships don't rule over other clans. Cheiftanships only rule over their own immediate family through honorifics with no real authority. They don't collect taxes, pay salaries or appoint leadership, carry personal guards or command a standing army like the Sultanates.
You can see that the only two real sultanates in Somalia in 1800s was Hobyo and Majerteen by what Historian Said Samatar says and how he defines them:
Horn of Africa - Volume 15 - Page 131
Aside from those two sultanates, there was city states as well, where they were either ruled over by a Monarch/Governor like in Luuq, Harar, Bardheere, Afgooye, Zayla and or collectively through city councils of diverse clan elders under a titular leadership like in Barawa, Mogadishu, Berbera, Kismayo and Merca.
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Hirab was not a sultanate. They were a titular leadership over mogadishu that acted as a city state which was internally ruled by a city council of different clan elders.
Geledi and Harar could be seen as a sultanate depending on how you define it in the sense that they were ruled over by monarchs/sultans/emirs. But they also essentially opperated like city states that had political and economic influence outside their domains.
Majerteen, Hobyo ruled over a wider territory and over a collection of villages, towns and cities. and a wider rural country side that acted as producers . They were not confined to a single town or city or settlement. They were Kingdoms if you want to get technical with it.
There was several Somali governors of Zayla before Sharmarke did a take over and the justice/record keeping administrated by Somali qadis as Burton remarked for many generations. Believe it or not Zayla was probably not a dependency of Mocha, the Sherif of Mocha appointed someone to protect his commercial interests not someone to govern the city which Burton mistook, because the cities fought over the trade revenues all the time which also made Zayla keep a garrison in Aden to protect their own commercial interests and we've seen Somalis had their own trading quarters and stations in Mocha also.
The following is an excerpt from the 1760:
A Universal History From the Earliest Accounts to the Present Time Β· Volume 15β p. 625
βZEILA is seated in a spacious bay, just without the straits of Babel Mandeb, and, from its situation, seems to be the Avalites of Ptolemy. It retains still some noble relics of its ancient splendour. The houses are built of stone and mortar, the streets wide and regular; its haven is very commodious, and well frequented. It is populous, and carries on a considerable commerce, it being the place through which the greatest part of the merchandises, which are carried into the Abyssinian empire, commonly pass, as well as those which are consumed in the kingdom of Adel; the revenue of which is so considerable, that its kings are often at war with those of Aden about it; upon which account the former keeps constantly a strong garrison in it.β
It is also somewhat related to how the British in the 1800s also thought Tadjourah was tributary to Zayla because they payed taxes to it, but what they payed wa in-fact an agreement to secure the traders of Tajura a guaranteed place at the markets of Zeila. They were infact independent from Zayla.
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Wikipedia lied to me (again). I need to stop using that site for history that I'm not very well versed in
Tbh, sometimes I feel the line between city state and kingdom/sultanate are blurred. Then again maybe I keep thinking that every city state should be like the powerful ones of Europe.
Could you inform me as to why Majeerteen/Hobyo were the few in the region to rule over wider territory like that? What developments did they have that say, Mogadishu or Berbera didn't that lead them to sultanate status?
Lastly, why did it take Bari until the 17th-19th century to unite into a sultanate?
Yes Step a Side talkes about this as well
View attachment 335215
Qadi of Zeila in ottoman eras were administrative rulers. Richard burton didnβt understand the true role of the qadi and how the ottomans saw them. Here are what Turkish historians saw about their rule.
View attachment 335207
βDistricts in the Ottoman state are administrative units ruled by civil administrators with a scholarly background, called kadiβ
Again read the next line. Kadiships/districts were established aside of sanjaks (ottoman provinces). They werenβt just judges.
βIn the Ottoman system, the shaykh al-Islam (Turkish seyhulislam) was the chief mufti (jurisconsult) and head of the state hierarchy of ulama. Often served as adviser to the sultan's court on political affairsβ
When it says they came under the sheikh Ul Islam it means the ultimate authority over them came from the ottoman shaykh not that they were individually run by sheikhs
Haji sharmarke was a proxy governor for the eyalet of Yemen he was deposed by an βadjacentβ governor( he was a puppet) he wasnβt the head of a kadiship.
View attachment 335208
This is why historical context is important. Itβs referring to two different deposings. The first is of Mohamed Al barr being removed in favour of hajj sharmarke and the second is the hajj being removed himself. Burton made this super clear
View attachment 335209
Sharmaarke was deposed by the eyalet of Yemen which means the Turkish rulers of the region.
Burton didnβt understand how the ottomans saw the kadis even Turkish historians disagree completely with his narrative.
