Somalis were native to Hararghe until the Oromo expansion after the weakening of Adal Sultanate.

[Factz]

You are useless. "Historians all agree" with not a single link or reference anywhere?! 7th century is not thousands of years, and Zeila had a mixed population including Arabs and Afars from the very beginning. The oldest somali Abtirsi only go back to about 1200 AD. In the 9th century Samaal would just have meant Dir. The northern Somali clans don't even form until the 12th-13th centuries. Simur and Somali aren't known names until some Ethiopian courtier writes a poem about Ethiopian Emperor Yishaq defeating them in the 1420s. Adal was only established in 1415. The first Warsangeli Sultanate was established in 1218, the Hobyo Sultanate in the 1880s.

Remember your map? At the time of the Periplus in the 1st century AD, the Farside Ports belonged to the Indo-Scythian Kingdom of Nambanus, who used the ports in an East-West trade with Rome and others in the West because they were not welcome in the Sabaean ports across the Gulf of Aden.

https://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/texts/periplus/periplus.html


"The South West monsoon was key for the voyage from the West to India: Ships would leave Egypt in July in order to catch the wind bringing them safely into India in September. If the ship left earlier, in June, it would run the risk of arriving on India's west coast in August at which time conditions are very hazardous. The return voyage with the North East monsoon did not have to be so carefully timed although regular departure was in December-January."

Check your map. Mog and points south on the coast belonged to Charibael of Himyar, who is described as a friend of Rome. Somalis don't control Mog until the Yacuub Abgal take it from the Yemenis about 1624. It was the Arabs and the Indians that had the ships. The beden ships built at Hafun come much later.

Proto-Somalis go back 2-3000 years, but Somalis as such have to form and grow in numbers. It clearly didn't happen overnight or on your schedule.

Okey Mr. racist Historical revisionist that doesn't anything about Somali history. I'll just educate you again.

Yes, Zeila may have had ethnic minorities but the rulers and majority were Somalis and is located in a traditional Somali territory. Every ports in the Indian Ocean will have merchants living there just like Aden and Muscat which is no different. Let me quote a historical fact about Zeila.

"Through extensive trade with Abyssinia and Arabia, Adal attained its height of prosperity during the 14th century. It sold incense, myrrh, slaves, gold, silver and camels, among many other commodities. Zeila had by then started to grow into a huge multicultural metropolis, with Somalis (Predominantly), Afar, Harari, and even Arabs and Persian inhabitants. The city was also instrumental in bringing Islam to the Oromo and other Ethiopian ethnic groups."

Reference 1: I. M. Lewis, A pastoral democracy: a study of pastoralism and politics among the Northern Somali of the Horn of Africa, (LIT Verlag Münster: 1999), p.17

Reference 2: Rayne, Henry A. Sun, sand and somals : leaves from the note-book of a district commissioner in British Somaliland. London : Witherby. (1921). https://archive.org/stream/sunsandsomalslea00raynuoft/sunsandsomalslea00raynuoft_djvu.txt

How can the oldest abtirsi be 12th or 13th century when most scholars agree Somalis are more than 3 thousand years old? Maybe, they arabized their lineage at 12 or 13 century but I still wouldn't believe that because it states that it happened in the 9th century actually. Somali kingdoms such as early Adal Kingdom and Mogadishu Sultanate were established in the 9th century so forget Ajuran Empire and Warsangali Sultanate that established in the 1200's.

Now let me educate you about the ancient Somalis called Barbara who Somalis are the direct ancestors, not just the ancestors but direct and they were Somali city-states so let me quote historicals facts for you and give you the source.

"The Somali peninsula were inhabited by the Eastern Barbaroi or Baribah (Berbers) as referred to by ancient Greek philosophers. These inhabitants were the ancestors of today's Somali people who used to border the Axumites in the north and border the Azanians in the south."

"Geographers historically divided the eastern coast of Africa at large into several regions based on each region's respective inhabitants. In Somalia was Barbara, which was the land of the Eastern Baribah or Barbaroi (Berbers), as the ancestors of the Somalis were referred to by medieval Arab and ancient Greek geographers, respectively. In modern-day Eritrea and Ethiopia was al-Habash or Abyssinia,which was inhabited by the Habash or Abyssinians, who were the forebears of the Habesha."

Reference 1: Huntingford, George Wynn Brereton (1980). The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea, Volume 2, Part 4, Issue 151. Ashgate Publishing, Ltd. pp. 59, 83 & 146. ISBN 0904180050. Retrieved 7 June 2016.

Reference 2: Raunig, Walter (2005). Afrikas Horn: Akten der Ersten Internationalen Littmann-Konferenz 2. bis 5. Mai 2002 in München. Otto Harrassowitz Verlag. p. 130. ISBN 3-447-05175-2.

Reference 3: F.R.C. Bagley et al., The Last Great Muslim Empires, (Brill: 1997), p.174

Reference 4: James Hastings, Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics Part 12: V. 12, (Kessinger Publishing, LLC: 2003), p.490

The ancient Somali city-states established the Beden ship and were trading around the world for thousands of years. The Beden ship were one of the advanced ships in the Indian ocean. Arabs even gained knowledge from Somali traders to how to build ships. Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beden

"During antiquity. Somalia was part of the Somali city-states that in engaged in a lucrative trade network connecting Somali merchants with Phoenicia, Ptolemic Egypt, Greece, Parthian Persia, Saba, Nabataea and the Roman Empire. Somali sailors used the ancient Somali maritime vessel known as the beden to transport their cargo"

Source: Journal of African History pg.50 by John Donnelly Fage and Roland Anthony Oliver

Lastly, did you Sarapion was the predecessor of Mogadishu? It was an ancient Somali city established by the Somali pastoral clans in the 2nd century after they migrated to southern Somalia in the 1st century. Read the authentic source from below.

When Somalis migrated to southern Somalia they established farmlands in the valleys of Jubba and Shabelle and they also established flourishing ports in southern Somalia and Mogadishu was one of them. Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarapion

Mogadishu was always a Somali city and it later served as the capital of Ajuran Empire during the early 13th century after succeeding from Mogadishu Sultanate. Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarapion

 

[Factz]

This and other papers claim the Oromo came up the Blue Nile from Kush. Note on this map that they push the Kenya border today and also cover much of the Blue Nile watershed. This one is a publication of "The Mecha and Tulama Self-Help Association (which) was an Oromo social movement in Ethiopia. The movement was primarily based in Bale, but was active in other regions as well (including Addis Ababa). The organization was banned in 1966, and some of its leaders jailed and killed. The Association was established by Oromo nationalists like Mamo Mezemer, Haila Mariam Gemeda and Alemu Kitessa."

http://machatulama.net/oromo-people/

"The Cushitic speakers have inhabited north-eastern and eastern Africa for as long as recorded history. The land of Cush, Nubia or the ancient Ethiopia in middle and lower Nile is the home of the Cushitic speakers. It was most probably from there that they subsequently dispersed and became differentiated into separate linguistic and cultural groups. The various Cushitic nations inhabiting north-east and east Africa today are the result of this dispersion and differentiation. The Oromo form one of those groups which spread southwards, and then east and west occupying large part of the Horn of Africa. Their physical features, culture, language and other evidences unequivocally point to the fact that they are indigenous to this part of Africa. Available information clearly indicates that the Oromo existed as a community of people for thousands of years in East Africa (Prouty at al, 1981). Bates (1979) contends, "The Gallas (Oromo) were a very ancient race, the indigenous stock, perhaps, on which most other peoples in this part of eastern Africa have been grafted."

The history of the arrival of the Oromo people in the sixteenth century in East Africa from outside is a fabrication and denial of historical facts. It is a myth created by Abyssinian court historians and monks, sustained by their European supporters and which the Ethiopian rulers used to lay claim on Oromo territory and justify their colonization of the Oromo people. Several authorities have indicated that the Oromo were in fact in the North-eastern part of the continent even before the arrival of theHabasha. According to Perham (1948): "the emigrant Semites landed in a continent of which the North-East appears to have been inhabited by the eastern groups ofHamites, often called Kushites, who also include the Gallas." Paulitschke (1889) indicated that Oromo were in East Africa during the Aksumite period. As recorded by Greenfield (1965), Oromo reject the view that they were late arrivals, "... old men amongst the Azebu and Rayya Galla dismiss talk of their being comparative newcomers." Their own (Abyssinians) oral history and legends attest to the fact that Oromo have been living in Rayya for a long time. Beke (cited by Pankurst, 1985-86) quoted the following Lasta legend: "Menilek, the son of Solomon, ... entered Abyssinia from the East, beyond the country of the Rayya or Azebo Gallas." There are also evidence (Greenfield et al, 1980) that at least by the ninth and tenth centuries that there were Oromo communities around Shawa and by about the fourteenth century settlements were reported around Lake Tana. The recent discovery, (Lynch and Robbins, 1978), in northern Kenya of the pillars that Oromo used in the invention of their calendar system, dated around 300 B.C., is another indication that Oromo have a long history of presence as a community of people, in this part of Africa."

Keep quoting blogs you incompetent old fool. Have you not studied the Oromo migration? They were attacking from south against the Abyssinian highlands, not from the north. All historians agree that they originated between Kenya and southern Ethiopia and began expanding in the 16th century.

Study the Oromo migration. Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oromo_migrations

 

[Factz]

First off, who are you calling Galla?

The term is used for pagans, we are not pagans.

Seceondly, Oromos did not come from “Lake Turkana”.

We originated from Mada Walabu, an area in current day Bale.


And for the “Orominzed Somalis”, ask them if they would like to join you. That is their choice.

We only have 1 clan who have been absorbed which is the Bursuukh amongst the Humme AQ. The Gurgura are just neighbours who speak Oromo, but know well that they are Somali.

We’ve intermixed with one another for generations. How would you split such people from one another?

What about the Oromo clans that have become Somali? The Akichu are placed under Dir but are purely Oromo. Tell me the meaning of any of their subclans in Af-Somali? Or the word Akichu/Akisho?

And how are the Jarso Somali? They are 100% Oromo. They’ve heavily mixed with the Gerri Kombo Darood, but are still Oromo. If anything Darood have more claim then Dir.

There are Somalis in Hararge who live side by side with Oromos with no threat. They are equals, and always have been. We are too intermixed to split us apart for one another.

I'm sorry but did you know Somalis use to dominate the Hararghe highlands specifically from the Dir clan until the Oromo expansion in the 16th century after the weakening and collapse of Adal Sultanate? You guys are very recent and never inhabited Hararghe or even bale or Arsi. You stole them and I don't blame you but don't hide your evil past of what you did to Dirs in the 16th century.

Akisho are a pure Somali Dir clan but you guys assimilated them along with Bursuk in Hararghe. Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akisho

Jarso are Oromo? What the heck are you smoking? Have you not learned the Jarso history?

"By Somali reckoning, the founder of Dawaro Sultanate was Jārso people belonging to the Ali Madaḥweyne branch which is a sub-clan of Dir. After the Oromo migrations, the ʿAli Madaḥweyne Dir were absorbed into the Afran Qallo Barentuma confederation, and today the Jarso are reckoned as Jārsō Daggā Qāllō Barentuma Oromō."

Source: Futūḥ al-Ḥabasha. (n.d.). Christian-Muslim Relations 1500 - 1900. doi:10.1163/2451-9537_cmrii_com_26077

For more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Dawaro#cite_note-Assimilation-2

"The Dir clan used to be the predominant inhabitants of Hararghe Highlands in the medieval times until the weakening of Adal Sultanate the opportunist Oromos took advantage of the crippling state and decided to invade and occuppy the Haraghe Highlands and assimilate the local native Somali population which were Jarso, Akisho, Gurgura, Nole, Metta, Oborra and Bursuk who were all sub-clans of Dir a major Somali tribe and were later confederated into Oromo tribe, the Afran Qallo clan."

Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dir_(clan)

If you are from any of these sub-clans, just to let you know your lineage is Somali Dir but if you feel closer with Oromos then don't be ashamed of the people that conquered you and assimilated you. I would feel bad too but it takes alot of mental adjustment.

 

[Grant]

Okey Mr. racist Historical revisionist that doesn't anything about Somali history. I'll just educate you again.

Yes, Zeila may have had ethnic minorities but the rulers and majority were Somalis and is located in a traditional Somali territory. Every ports in the Indian Ocean will have merchants living there just like Aden and Muscat which is no different. Let me quote a historical fact about Zeila.

"Through extensive trade with Abyssinia and Arabia, Adal attained its height of prosperity during the 14th century. It sold incense, myrrh, slaves, gold, silver and camels, among many other commodities. Zeila had by then started to grow into a huge multicultural metropolis, with Somalis (Predominantly), Afar, Harari, and even Arabs and Persian inhabitants. The city was also instrumental in bringing Islam to the Oromo and other Ethiopian ethnic groups."

Reference 1: I. M. Lewis, A pastoral democracy: a study of pastoralism and politics among the Northern Somali of the Horn of Africa, (LIT Verlag Münster: 1999), p.17

Reference 2: Rayne, Henry A. Sun, sand and somals : leaves from the note-book of a district commissioner in British Somaliland. London : Witherby. (1921). https://archive.org/stream/sunsandsomalslea00raynuoft/sunsandsomalslea00raynuoft_djvu.txt

How can the oldest abtirsi be 12th or 13th century when most scholars agree Somalis are more than 3 thousand years old? Maybe, they arabized their lineage at 12 or 13 century but I still wouldn't believe that because it states that it happened in the 9th century actually. Somali kingdoms such as early Adal Kingdom and Mogadishu Sultanate were established in the 9th century so forget Ajuran Empire and Warsangali Sultanate that established in the 1200's.

Now let me educate you about the ancient Somalis called Barbara who Somalis are the direct ancestors, not just the ancestors but direct and they were Somali city-states so let me quote historicals facts for you and give you the source.

"The Somali peninsula were inhabited by the Eastern Barbaroi or Baribah (Berbers) as referred to by ancient Greek philosophers. These inhabitants were the ancestors of today's Somali people who used to border the Axumites in the north and border the Azanians in the south."

"Geographers historically divided the eastern coast of Africa at large into several regions based on each region's respective inhabitants. In Somalia was Barbara, which was the land of the Eastern Baribah or Barbaroi (Berbers), as the ancestors of the Somalis were referred to by medieval Arab and ancient Greek geographers, respectively. In modern-day Eritrea and Ethiopia was al-Habash or Abyssinia,which was inhabited by the Habash or Abyssinians, who were the forebears of the Habesha."

Reference 1: Huntingford, George Wynn Brereton (1980). The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea, Volume 2, Part 4, Issue 151. Ashgate Publishing, Ltd. pp. 59, 83 & 146. ISBN 0904180050. Retrieved 7 June 2016.

Reference 2: Raunig, Walter (2005). Afrikas Horn: Akten der Ersten Internationalen Littmann-Konferenz 2. bis 5. Mai 2002 in München. Otto Harrassowitz Verlag. p. 130. ISBN 3-447-05175-2.

Reference 3: F.R.C. Bagley et al., The Last Great Muslim Empires, (Brill: 1997), p.174

Reference 4: James Hastings, Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics Part 12: V. 12, (Kessinger Publishing, LLC: 2003), p.490

The ancient Somali city-states established the Beden ship and were trading around the world for thousands of years. The Beden ship were one of the advanced ships in the Indian ocean. Arabs even gained knowledge from Somali traders to how to build ships. Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beden

"During antiquity. Somalia was part of the Somali city-states that in engaged in a lucrative trade network connecting Somali merchants with Phoenicia, Ptolemic Egypt, Greece, Parthian Persia, Saba, Nabataea and the Roman Empire. Somali sailors used the ancient Somali maritime vessel known as the beden to transport their cargo"

Source: Journal of African History pg.50 by John Donnelly Fage and Roland Anthony Oliver

Lastly, did you Mogadishu was the predecessor of Sarapion? It was an ancient Somali city established by the Somali pastoral clans in the 2nd century after they migrated to southern Somalia in the 1st century. Read the authentic source from below.

When Somalis migrated to southern Somalia they established farmlands in the valleys of Jubba and Shabelle and they also established flourishing ports in southern Somalia and Mogadishu was one of them. Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarapion

Mogadishu was always a Somali city and it later served as the capital of Ajuran Empire during the early 13th century after succeeding from Mogadishu Sultanate. Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarapion

When discussing Omani bedens and their later Somali copies it would probably be a good idea not to use a photo of a Portuguese caravel.

"Lastly, did you Mogadishu was the predecessor of Sarapion? It was an ancient Somali city established by the Somali pastoral clans in the 2nd century after they migrated to southern Somalia in the 1st century" The grammar is wrong, but I think you are trying to say Mog was the predecessor or Serapion. That is really funny, but totally in line with the.rest of your misconceptions.

You have no clue what an accessible link is and you are still using those patriotically written pages from Wiki.

Now it's time for you to run along and stop bothering the adults.

 

[Factz]

When discussing Omani bedens and their later Somali copies it would probably be a good idea not to use a photo of a Portuguese caravel.

"Lastly, did you Mogadishu was the predecessor of Sarapion? It was an ancient Somali city established by the Somali pastoral clans in the 2nd century after they migrated to southern Somalia in the 1st century" The grammar is wrong, but I think you are trying to say Mog was the predecessor or Serapion. That is really funny, but totally in line with the.rest of your misconceptions.

Now it's time for you to run along and not bother the adults.

Because I'm pissed off of your lies and historical revisionism so I'm typing too fast but thanks for correcting me. Either way I was right and provided sources for you and I will never stop bothering you until you quit your historical revisionism towards my people or else get ready to get debunked by my factz.

How am I a misconceptions when I am speating facts and providing sources for you when you're only making imaginations and at the same time quoting blogs but some of your blogs even contridicts your own statements?

Beden is a Somali word and it was developed by Somalis and the southern Arabians later copied them. That is a fact, now stop stealing our history and achievements.

At the end of the day I provided authentic sources and if you don't like reading it, then so be it but don't cry when I expose you and debunk you.

 

[World]

I agree with you that Afran Qallos are not all of Somali origin. However, if one is to be truthful, the Babille section are mainly Hawiye. The Noole have Harla, Darood, Oromo, Dir etc in them. The Jarso also possess Dir, Darood and Oromo subclans in them. Several ethnicities are well represented in the Afran Qallo. Unlike some other Oromos, the Afran Qallo have retained their Abtirsis, and AQ never referred to a common clan ancestor.

In regard to Akichu/Akisho/Gurre, names can change with assimilation. How many Arsi subclans have clearly Hadiya names despite the fact a sizeable amount of them are assimilated Hadiyas? How many Highland Oromo subclans have distinctly Habasha names etc.? Few or none is the answer. With language shift, names also change!

No one is trying to split up the Afran Qallo but you cannot deny that a relatively large percentage of the AQ are Somali in origin.

Also don't forget the Garre Dir subclan, they used to live in modern day Bali/Arsi land before the Oromo expansion in the 16th century. Many Arsi clans there have Somali origin.

Genetic studies on Oromos have revealed that they're a very diverse heterogeneous group of people. They can be divided into three:
1) Borana,
2) Western-Central Oromos,
3) Eastern-Central Oromos.

 

[AfranQallo]

I'm sorry but did you know Somalis use to dominate the Hararghe highlands specifically from the Dir clan until the Oromo expansion in the 16th century after the weakening and collapse of Adal Sultanate? You guys are very recent and never inhabited Hararghe or even bale or Arsi. You stole them and I don't blame you but don't hide your evil past of what you did to Dirs in the 16th century.

Akisho are a pure Somali Dir clan but you guys assimilated them along with Bursuk in Hararghe. Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akisho

Jarso are Oromo? What the heck are you smoking? Have you not learned the Jarso history?

"By Somali reckoning, the founder of Dawaro Sultanate was Jārso people belonging to the Ali Madaḥweyne branch which is a sub-clan of Dir. After the Oromo migrations, the ʿAli Madaḥweyne Dir were absorbed into the Afran Qallo Barentuma confederation, and today the Jarso are reckoned as Jārsō Daggā Qāllō Barentuma Oromō."

Source: Futūḥ al-Ḥabasha. (n.d.). Christian-Muslim Relations 1500 - 1900. doi:10.1163/2451-9537_cmrii_com_26077

For more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Dawaro#cite_note-Assimilation-2

"The Dir clan used to be the predominant inhabitants of Hararghe Highlands in the medieval times until the weakening of Adal Sultanate the opportunist Oromos took advantage of the crippling state and decided to invade and occuppy the Haraghe Highlands and assimilate the local native Somali population which were Jarso, Akisho, Gurgura, Nole, Metta, Oborra and Bursuk who were all sub-clans of Dir a major Somali tribe and were later confederated into Oromo tribe, the Afran Qallo clan."

Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dir_(clan)

If you are from any of these sub-clans, just to let you know your lineage is Somali Dir but if you feel closer with Oromos then don't be ashamed of the people that conquered you and assimilated you. I would feel bad too but it takes alot of mental adjustment.

You’re sending me links from Wikipedia, not at all reliable. People can edit and change what ever they like.

I never said Somalis were not present in Hararge. Trust me, we know these things and they are nothing to deny.

Bursuukh have pretty much been fully assimilated, Gurguras partially but are partners of the Noole. The other Dir clans live close by, but have not been affected by Oromo movement.

The Jarso are not Dir or Somali brother, they mix with Geri koombe but are not Somali.

They have assimilated some Darood clans. They have subsubsun clans of Bal’ad, Kablala etc but these people claim Somali. The Majority are not of this stock.

I know the Jarso very well, half my family is Jarso. Majority will laugh in your face if you tell them they are Somali.

And Lol to the quote you posted. It claims my clan, Oborra, Metta, Jarso and Akichu as Dir.

Please provide recorded proof they are Somali.

Listen Somalis have live in these lands, but they were not the only ones.

There are groups like the Harla, Argobba, Silte etc who lived in Hararge. Many of them have become Oromo, no denial. So where would you like these people to go? They speak Oromo today, and are Oromo. That’s the circle of life, people shift cultures and languages.

You claim Oromos originated in north Kenya/ south Ethiopia - incorrect. Oromos originate from Mada Walabu in Bale. Every Oromo clan has its origins there, and shifted from there on.

A lot of your claims and links are not reliable as you post stuff from Wikipedia which might just be you editing those pages.

 

[Factz]

Your sending me links from Wikipedia, not at all reliable. People can’t edit and change what ever why like.

I never said Somalis were not present in Hararge. Trust me, we know these things and they are nothing to deny.

Bursuukh have pretty much been fully assimilated, Gurguras partially but are partners of the Noole. The other Dir clans live close by, but have not been affected by Oromo movement.

The Jarso are not Dir or Somali brother, they mix with Geri koombe but are not Somali.

They have assimilated some Darood clans. They have subsubsun clans of Bal’ad, Kablala etc but these people claim Somali. The Majority are not of this stock.

The know the Jarso very well, half my family is Jarso. Majority will laugh in your face if you tell them they are Somali.

And Lol to the below quote you posted. It claims my clan, Oborra, Metta, Jarso and Akichu as Dir.

Please provide recorded proof they are Somali.

Listen Somalis have live in these lands, but they were not the only ones.

There are groups like the Harla, Argobba, Silte etc who lived in Hararge. Many of them have become Oromo, no denial. So where would you like these people to go? They speak Oromo today, and are Oromo. That’s the circle of life, people shift cultures and languages.

You claim Oromos originated in north Kenya/ south Ethiopia - incorrect. Oromos originate from Mada Walabu in Bale. Every Oromo clan has its origins there, and shifted from there on.

A lot of your claims and links are not reliable as you post stuff from Wikipedia which might just be you editing those pages.

Listen, the Habesha Muslims you're talking about only live in central Ethiopia mainly in Shewa which was called Shewa Sultanate and you Oromos assimilated those people. Only ones living with Somalis in Hararghe were Hararis and also, Hararghe was Somali majority and that is a historical fact.

Jarso are Somalis and I have shown you the sources and they established the Dawaro Sultanate. They are a sub-clan of Dir, @Rooble come here you idiot! Stop denying you assimilated them because it's getting pathetic right now.

Did you know there were Muslims living in Bale mountains known as the Bale Sultanate? Oromos never lived there, they actaully atacked that kingdom and assimilated the local Muslims there and I heard Somalis were also part of the kingdom who also got exposed to Oromo assimilation.

Oborra and Akisho are pretty much Dir and they also got assimilated and genetically they are not related to Oromos at all. Don't forget you also assimilated Karanle who are native to Babille.

I've not only quotted wikipedia but references so check them out.

This is how the Oromo expansion happened.

 

[Grant]

Because I'm pissed off of your lies and historical revisionism so I'm typing too fast but thanks for correcting me. Either way I was right and provided sources for you and I will never stop bothering you until you quit your historical revisionism towards my people or else get ready to get debunked by my factz.

How am I a misconceptions when I am speating facts and providing sources for you when you're only making imaginations and at the same time quoting blogs but some of your blogs even contridicts your own statements?

Beden is a Somali word and it was developed by Somalis and the southern Arabians later copied them. That is a fact, now stop stealing our history and achievements.

At the end of the day I provided authentic sources and if you don't like reading it, then so be it but don't cry when I expose you and debunk you.

This is what a beden looks like. They are Omani in origin. Check out Omani maritime history:

https://www.academia.edu/35372461/OMAN_A_MARITIME_HISTORY_OMAN_A_MARITIME_HISTORY_EDITED_BY

A 9th century Omani dhow was found in Indonesia:


Traditional dhow building in Oman:


They actually sailed a copy to Sri Lanka and Indonesia.

 

[AfranQallo]

Listen, the Habesha Muslims you're talking about only live in central Ethiopia mainly in Shewa which was called Shewa Sultanate and you Oromos assimilated those people. Only ones living with Somalis in Hararghe were Hararis and also, Hararghe was Somali majority and that is a historical fact.

Jarso are Somalis and I have shown you the sources and they established the Dawaro Sultanate. They are a sub-clan of Dir, @Rooble come here you idiot! Stop denying you assimilated them because it's getting pathetic right now.

Did you know there were Muslims living in Bale mountains known as the Bale Sultanate? Oromos never lived there, they actaully atacked that kingdom and assimilated the local Muslims there and I heard Somalis were also part of the kingdom who also got exposed to Oromo assimilation.

Oborra and Akisho are pretty much Dir and they also got assimilated and genetically they are not related to Oromos at all. Don't forget you also assimilated Karanle who are native to Babille.

I've not only quotted wikipedia but references so check them out.

This is how the Oromo expansion happened.

You just proved you don’t know the area or people at all.

You claim those habesha groups only lived in Shawa. The Argobba to this day still live in Hararge, Afar region, Wallo and anbitnin shawa.

The ones amongst oromo speak Oromo and the others of the ethnicity they live with.

The Silte are a group who have split from the Adare(Harari). Their language and culture is almost identical to Hararis. Both will tell you they used to live in Hararge. Don’t deny this.

And your going to claim the Harla lived in Shawa. You know they were mentioned in the futah al-Habash right? They lived in Hararge and have been absorbed into Oromo and Somali clans.

I know that Bale has an Islamic sultanate, which was of Hadiya stock. A lot of Arsi Oromos are of this clan, and won’t deny it. But Oromos were also in the area a bit to the south bordering the current day Borana region.

Listen, It’s nice debating about history because it’s always fascinating, but bring some reliable proof when doing so. You created that map, it has no relevance.

 

[World]

You just proved you don’t know the area or people at all.

You claim those habesha groups only lived in Shawa. The Argobba to this day still live in Hararge, Afar region, Wallo and anbitnin shawa.

The ones amongst oromo speak Oromo and the others of the ethnicity they live with.

The Silte are a group who have split from the Adare(Harari). Their language and culture is almost identical to Hararis. Both will tell you they used to live in Hararge. Don’t deny this.

And your going to claim the Harla lived in Shawa. You know they were mentioned in the futah al-Habash right? They lived in Hararge and have been absorbed into Oromo and Somali clans.

I know that Bale has an Islamic sultanate, which was of Hadiya stock. A lot of Arsi Oromos are of this clan, and won’t deny it. But Oromos were also in the area a bit to the south bordering the current day Borana region.

Listen, It’s nice debating about history because it’s always fascinating, but bring some reliable proof when doing so. You created that map, it has no relevance.

Where were all of these people during Futah al Habash? Only the Harla who were most likely Cushitic people, Afars and Somalis were mentioned. And of them, Somalis were the most dominant. They made up the majority of the troops, commanders, Ahmed Gurey(unkown ethnicity) married his sister to Somalis, his widowed wife married Imam Nur(Somali) who ruled the Adal Sultanate after. No Oromos, no Siltes, no Hadiyas and all these ooga booga tribes.

 

[Factz]

This is what a beden looks like. They are Omani in origin. Check out Omani maritime history:

https://www.academia.edu/35372461/OMAN_A_MARITIME_HISTORY_OMAN_A_MARITIME_HISTORY_EDITED_BY

A 9th century Omani dhow was found in Indonesia:


Traditional dhow building in Oman:


They actually sailed a copy to Sri Lanka and Indonesia.

You were wrong about ancient Somalis and their city-states being under control when in reality they were independent kingdoms governed by different Somali tribes and enjoyed many advantages in trading. You try to discredit Somali history but it's okey. Sometimes you don't read the links I give you so I'll just Screen shot it for you since you're an old man.

Beden is a Somali word and it originated from Somalia. We Somalis been trading with Arabs for thousands of years so ofcourse they will access certain knowledge from Somalia.

Bedan is not only Somali origin but southern Arabs copied us. Here: Johnstone, Paul (1989). The Sea-Craft of Prehistory. Routledge. page. 180–181.

When I type in Beden, I don't see any Omani information but Somalis only. Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beden

 

[AfranQallo]

Where were all of these people during Futah al Habash? Only the Harla who were most likely Cushitic people, Afars and Somalis were mentioned. No Oromos, no Siltes, no Hadiyas.

Read what I wrote and reply back. I said the Silte and Harari are pretty much the same people that split. The Argobba have always been in the charchar highland(west hararge) and you can’t deny the Harla.

 

[Factz]

You just proved you don’t know the area or people at all.

You claim those habesha groups only lived in Shawa. The Argobba to this day still live in Hararge, Afar region, Wallo and anbitnin shawa.

The ones amongst oromo speak Oromo and the others of the ethnicity they live with.

The Silte are a group who have split from the Adare(Harari). Their language and culture is almost identical to Hararis. Both will tell you they used to live in Hararge. Don’t deny this.

And your going to claim the Harla lived in Shawa. You know they were mentioned in the futah al-Habash right? They lived in Hararge and have been absorbed into Oromo and Somali clans.

I know that Bale has an Islamic sultanate, which was of Hadiya stock. A lot of Arsi Oromos are of this clan, and won’t deny it. But Oromos were also in the area a bit to the south bordering the current day Borana region.

Listen, It’s nice debating about history because it’s always fascinating, but bring some reliable proof when doing so. You created that map, it has no relevance.

Are you a fool? Somalis from Dir clans dominated Hararghe highlands and many of the sub-clans that use to live there were assimilated by Oromos after the weakening of Adal Sultanate and that is a historical fact. The Somalis never assimilated Hararis, it was actually the Oromos because Harari people use to live under Somalis peacefully during the Adal period.

Yes, Silte may have been Hararis who migrated to SNNP region but Argobba along with the rest of Habesha Muslims only lived in central Ethiopia (Shewa Sultanate) until your people assimilated them.

I've already provided you a source of Oromo migration against Somalis that use to dominate Hararghe highlands.

For more, read Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1990.

Lastly, every scholar will tell you Oromos originated from Kenya whether you like it or not. You did live in Ethiopia but that was only the Borana zone and after massive drought hit the Oromos in the 16th century, that's when your people started counqering lands and assimilating the inhabitants.

 

[World]

Read what I wrote and reply back. I said the Silte and Harari are pretty much the same people that split. The Argobba have always been in the chat chat highland(west hararge) and you can’t deny the Harla.

There are 20,000 Harari speakers in Ethiopia, they are all originally from the town of Harar. A quick search says that there are 1 million Siltes, who by the way, speak a dialect of the Gurage language. Their languages is not related with Harari beyond both being Ethiopian Semitic. They don't even live anywhere near each other.

The Argobba are just traders and merchants who live in isolated village networks.

So neither of these ethnic groups actually dominated the highlands of Hararghe which is what this topic is discussing.

 

[AfranQallo]

There are 20,000 Harari speakers in Ethiopia, they are all originally from the town of Harar. A quick search says that there are 1 million Siltes, who by the way, speak a dialect of the Gurage language. Their languages is not related with Harari beyond both being Ethiopian Semitic. They don't even live anywhere near each other.

The Argobba are just traders and merchants who live in isolated village networks.

So neither of these ethnic groups actually dominated the highlands of Hararghe which is what this topic is discussing.

The Silte are listed as Gurage, but are actually a lot closer to Hararis. They will tell you themselves. Why would I make this up. I am from Hararge, lived with the Somali in the area, Hararis, Argobba etc. I know the people well.

Silte were pushed towards the SNNP region in south west Ethiopia.

Please do more research in those groups. Not much found online.. Take a trip to the region and learn from ththe people. There are a lot of things to learn.

End of the day, I have not denied Somalis living in this area. They always have, but to claim other haven’t is wrong.

 

[James Dahl]

Listen, the Habesha Muslims you're talking about only live in central Ethiopia mainly in Shewa which was called Shewa Sultanate and you Oromos assimilated those people. Only ones living with Somalis in Hararghe were Hararis and also, Hararghe was Somali majority and that is a historical fact.

Jarso are Somalis and I have shown you the sources and they established the Dawaro Sultanate. They are a sub-clan of Dir, @Rooble come here you idiot! Stop denying you assimilated them because it's getting pathetic right now.

Did you know there were Muslims living in Bale mountains known as the Bale Sultanate? Oromos never lived there, they actaully atacked that kingdom and assimilated the local Muslims there and I heard Somalis were also part of the kingdom who also got exposed to Oromo assimilation.

Oborra and Akisho are pretty much Dir and they also got assimilated and genetically they are not related to Oromos at all. Don't forget you also assimilated Karanle who are native to Babille.

I've not only quotted wikipedia but references so check them out.

This is how the Oromo expansion happened.

This map is not accurate, Mada Walabu, the homeland of Oromo people is in western Bale Oromo expanded south into what is purple on the above map, which was inhabited by other people (Guji, Gabbra, Rendille, Sakuye, Warday) who are not Oromo but distinct tribes who were conquered early by the Oromo advance. Most of the tribes conquered and absorbed into the Oromo nation used to be Hadiya clans like the Gadab, Adaba, Sharkha, Arbabni, Gudela, Hadiya proper or other related peoples.

There were many Habesha Muslims in Hararghe not just Hararis, in fact the Harari ethnic group did not exist yet, they were formed from many Habesh Muslim tribes fleeing to Harar after their cities were burned by the Oromo advance. These tribes include the Gabala, the Argobba of Shawa and Ifat, and the Muslim Habesh people of Bequlzar, Menz, Gedem, Kewet, Menjar, Fatagar and Ganz. Their descendants today include the Silt'e. The Werji may have also originally been Habesh Muslim but this is not certain. Many of these Muslim Habesh were conquered by the Amhara and absorbed into the Amhara kingdom and forced to convert to Christianity. Some fled to Harar, some found refuge as clients of Somali clans and were absorbed centuries ago, others accepted Oromo rule and were also absorbed centuries ago.

 

[AfranQallo]

This map is not accurate, Mada Walabu, the homeland of Oromo people is in western Bale Oromo expanded south into what is purple on the above map, which was inhabited by other people (Guji, Gabbra, Rendille, Sakuye, Warday) who are not Oromo but distinct tribes who were conquered early by the Oromo advance. Most of the tribes conquered and absorbed into the Oromo nation used to be Hadiya clans like the Gadab, Adaba, Sharkha, Arbabni, Gudela, Hadiya proper or other related peoples.

There were many Habesha Muslims in Hararghe not just Hararis, in fact the Harari ethnic group did not exist yet, they were formed from many Habesh Muslim tribes fleeing to Harar after their cities were burned by the Oromo advance. These tribes include the Gabala, the Argobba of Shawa and Ifat, and the Muslim Habesh people of Bequlzar, Menz, Gedem, Kewet, Menjar, Fatagar and Ganz. Their descendants today include the Silt'e. The Werji may have also originally been Habesh Muslim but this is not certain. Many of these Muslim Habesh were conquered by the Amhara and absorbed into the Amhara kingdom and forced to convert to Christianity. Some fled to Harar, some found refuge as clients of Somali clans and were absorbed centuries ago, others accepted Oromo rule and were also absorbed centuries ago.

Guji and Warra Dayyo - Warday are both Oromo. The rest are not.

 

[James Dahl]

Guji were not originally Oromo, but their neighbors and cousins, their homeland is Girja to the southwest of Mada Walabu. Warra Dayyo were not originally Oromo either, but a related tribe who lived in Liban immediately south of the Mada Walabu.

This is kind of a matter of semantics really. By Oromo I mean from Mada Walabu and of either the Barentuma or Borana confederations, but Oromo also just means "the people" or "humanity" in many east Cushitic languages and Warday refer to themselves as Orma ("the people").

 

[anonimo]

I’m not denying the Hawiye amongst the Babille clan. But they are not the majority. The Maya are the majority amongst the Babille. They live in the Babille area towards Haromaya which is named after them.

I never said Akichu are Afran Qallo. Akichu are sons of Bareetuma. Bareentu had 5 sons: Karrayyu, Marawa, Akichu, Dhumuga and Humbanna.

The Akichu amongst Obborra have the same name but different subclans from Akichu Bareentuma who have become Somali. They were one of the largest amongst the Bareentu, and first to love eastwards towards the Somali. They’ve been amongst Somalis the longest, hence why they’ve assimilated.

I know of the assimilated habesha groups. We still have some who keep their name and line amongst Oromos. The Argobba, Warji etc are still around. They just speak Oromo today.

I admitted that Oromos have assimilated many people. The Gafat lived around Shawa, which would mean central Oromos assimilated then- Tulama clan.

The Wallo moved long before the assimilation, they joined the Muslim habesha and intermixed with them, but down the line all were assimilated into the Amhara culture.

I do not think we are on the same page.

I am referring to the Oborra Akisho/Gurre subclan, not the defunct Barentuma subclan that goes by the Akica name. Oborra are part of Humbana as we both agreed upon. The Akica subclan referenced in Bahrey's Galla Book are a separate branch of the Oromo Barentuma equal in clan stature to the Humbana. When did they ever live in Northern Somalia like M. Hassan claims? The Somali Gurre/Akisho clan did at one point live in Northern Somalia before migrating South into present day Ethiopia, but they were not Oromo as there is no history of Oromos living on the coast of Northern Somalia! Furthermore, there was no pressure on the Gurre/Akisho to adopt a Dir identity nor were they assmilated by any Dir subclan clan so tell me what made some of them supposedly switch identities considering how powerful Oromo clans were before the Europeans and Egyptians interfered in the affairs of the Horn?

The Highland Oromos I was referring to are the ones that live in the former Damot region, didn't mention anything about the Wollo or Amhar. As for the Muslim Habashas in Harar, it is obvious that the majority who were not displaced, apart from a few Agrobba, are now Oromos. Nonetheless, I disagree with your assertion that the Jarso are 100% Oromo as it is common knowledge that they possess both Dir and Darood subclans in them. Heck it can even be argued that there is nothing like a 100% Oromo clan in East Hararghe or among other Oromo clans that expanded into the lands of other Horn ethnic groups. One thing is certain, Dir; Darood and Hawiye are well represented among the Afran Qallo.

You stated that you have Somali ancestors further down the line. If anyone should know how Somalis are ubiquitous among the Afran Qallo, it is you my friend!

Nonetheless, I am with you in your assertion that the Haraghe Area was not a Somali majority region when the Oromos expanded into it. The Harla, Afar and settled Ethio-Semites have more of a claim on parts of it than we do.