Somalis worshipped Almaqah not Waaq [THEORY]

[TooMacaan]

You are acting like bimbo that needs to spoon feed some simple facts. Ramadan is month part of Islamic calendar that depends on lunar calendar unlike the Julia or Gregorian calendar that uses solar.
The Islamic, Muslim, or Hijri calendar (Arabic: التقويم الهجري‎‎ at-taqwīm al-hijrī) is a lunar calendar consisting of 12 months in a year of 354 or 355 days. It is used (often alongside the Gregorian calendar) to date events in many Muslim countries. It is also used by Muslims to determine the proper days of Islamic holidays and rituals, such as the annual period of fasting and the proper time for the pilgrimage to Mecca.

You can't prove that the crescent symbolism doesn't originate from paganism...so you resort to cheap name calling instead. How sad.
I'm done with this conversation; Eid Mubarak to you hun, may your fast be accepted.

 

[Canuck]

You can't prove that the crescent symbolism doesn't originate from paganism...so you resort to cheap name calling instead. How sad.
I'm done with this conversation; Eid Mubarak to you hun, may your fast be accepted.

You are definitely Ethiopian kkkkkk (the famous IQ)

 

[Canuck]

The Muslim world uses A lunar calendar is a calendarbased upon cycles of the Moon's phases (synodic months), in contrast to solar calendars based solely upon the solar year. A purely lunar calendar is also distinguished from lunisolar calendars whose lunar months are brought into alignment with the solar year through some process of intercalation. The details of when months begin varies from calendar to calendar, with some using new, full, or crescent moons and others employing detailed calculations.

 

[embarassing]

All this article shows is people shifting their behavior/celebration according to moon sighting, this doesn't say WHY they do such a thing. And thus, the article also doesn't negate the fact that crescent symbolism began as a pagan practice.


She opposes the possibility that the first source of the crescent symbol [which Islam uses] is rooted in paganism, that's the part I was referencing. The crescent may indeed play a significant role due to Ramadan/Eid festivities (in addition to the pagan stuff) but Canuck claims that "it has nothing to do with any pagan"...how is that not contradictory to what you and Horumar have admitted???

canuck is explaining to you what the symbolism means to muslims now, I was speaking more generally about "paganism". I don't think you really understood what I was saying. All cultures are influenced by paganism (culture includes religion). Thats not the same as saying Islam teaches that, no islamic literature, saying from the prophet asws, or Quranic verse tells us the crescent moon is the symbol of Islam. There are many other things like this, cultural practices people say is from islam when its not.

Anyway its not like there is anything wrong with it, paganism isn't bad its everywhere. But I'm not saying Islam teaches us these things bc it doesn't this is carried over from peoples culture, lol you got a little excited with your language there "admission" i forgot you're christian.

 

[Grant]

Sade Mire is expert and I am totally agree with her. And most of my history reading are from Yemeni forums. What I don't like is this part" I would guess those symbols are Himyarite or Sabaean. Samaales don't take over this area until the 12th-13th centuries AD."

That should not be a problem if you read Sada Mire. Please read through the section I quoted above and hit the links if you need to.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10437-015-9184-9#Sec9

Red Sea Sabaean/Himyarite and Pre-Askumite Empires (ca. Ninth Century BCE–Third Century CE)

"There is an extensive and ancient relationship between the people and cultures of both sides of the Red Sea coast (Phillipson 1998). Rock art sites such as Dhagah Nabi Gallay and Dhagah Kureh include Sabaean and Himyarite writings associated with South Arabia (see Map 3). In certain contexts, they appear to have been added to the rock art later, suggesting by superimposition. In 2007, more rock art sites with Sabaean and Himyarite writings in and around Hargeysa region were found, but sadly some were bulldozed by developers, as the Ministry of Tourism could not buy the land or stop the destruction. I have also recorded a burial site with such writings in Shalcaw (39), on the Red Sea coast (see Fig. 4). Furthermore, the Qar-Gebi megalithic burials include what might be ancient writings, perhaps Himyarite and Sabaean, but it needs to be confirmed. The Pre-Aksumite cultures of current-day Ethiopia are linked with South Arabian kingdoms. The Pre-Aksumite Empire itself might have been part of, or at least culturally linked with, contemporary kingdoms in what is now the Somali-populated region. Not only are there links through the findings of Himyarite and Sabaean writings, but also early Christianity seems to have spread throughout the Horn, including the Somali region, as explored below. However, the burial site of Shal’aw is associated with other ancient burials in the immediate wadis in this sandy coastal landscape. The “wadi burials” are part of an ancient landscape that has been washed away by the floods and now exposed vertically, showing clear stratigraphic levels. If these burials can be rescued in time, there is a potential that we learn more about first-millennium BCE cultures of this little known Red Sea region, and associations with the Himyarite and Sabaean cultures, as well as perhaps ancient Egypt and the trade in frankincense and myrrh, still a big part of the economy in this area."

Continue reading.

The Archaeology of Ancient Christianity in the Somali Context: Burials (ca. Fourth–Twelfth century CE)

The Samaale clans do not form until the time of Aw Barkhadle in the late 12th or early 13th century AD.

 

[Canuck]

I saw it before, will try to link when i find it again

Canuck show some respect, this cadaan man was in Somalia before you were even born, fix up

Tag me you nacas, don't backbite

Grant shits on Somalis and our history all time, for him Somalis are bunch of ignorant people who did not achieve anything during their history. He contributed every thing in to none Somalis. Learn to read between the lines in his replies.

 

[Canuck]

canuck is explaining to you what the symbolism means to muslims now, I was speaking more generally about "paganism". I don't think you really understood what I was saying. All cultures are influenced by paganism (culture includes religion). Thats not the same as saying Islam teaches that, no islamic literature, saying from the prophet asws, or Quranic verse tells us the crescent moon is the symbol of Islam. There are many other things like this, cultural practices people say is from islam when its not.

Anyway its not like there is anything wrong with it, paganism isn't bad its everywhere. But I'm not saying Islam teaches us these things bc it doesn't this is carried over from peoples culture, lol you got a little excited with your language there "admission" i forgot you're christian.

She needs somebody to speak her slowly and explain it word by word in order to get the meaning. You got to be super patient.

 

[El padrone]

So is that Almaqah/moon god symbol the origin of the same crescent symbol...that modern day Muslims continue to use on their Moseques and flags???
And if so, why are the Abrahamic religions (in general) still so heavily influenced by paganism?

Adeer are you an atheist mise troll?
im not religious expert but my understanding is, if the moon and the entire sky features are gods creations then it will be logical ppl will see them as marvelous things and would prostate/pray them as gods. but then stop when god sends them prophets.

 

[horumar]

Grant shits on Somalis and our history all time, for him Somalis are bunch of ignorant people who did not achieve anything during their history. He contributed every thing in to none Somalis. Learn to read between the lines in his replies.

Why would he have went to Somalia, went on sñet, and now this site is he hated Somalis? Leave the man alone

 

[Grant]

Grant shits on Somalis and our history all time, for him Somalis are bunch of ignorant people who did not achieve anything during their history. He contributed every thing in to none Somalis. Learn to read between the lines in his replies.

Canuck,

Samaales have a noble history. You just have it confused with Somali history, which is not exactly the same.

It just so happens I have a lot more respect for Sada Mire and other Somali historians than apparently you do. If you reject what they say sight unseen and without corroboration, I have to feel you have gone astray and I will continue to play Beendiid.

 

[TooMacaan]

canuck is explaining to you what the symbolism means to muslims now, I was speaking more generally about "paganism". I don't think you really understood what I was saying. All cultures are influenced by paganism (culture includes religion). Thats not the same as saying Islam teaches that, no islamic literature, saying from the prophet asws, or Quranic verse tells us the crescent moon is the symbol of Islam. There are many other things like this, cultural practices people say is from islam when its not.

Anyway its not like there is anything wrong with it, paganism isn't bad its everywhere. But I'm not saying Islam teaches us these things bc it doesn't this is carried over from peoples culture, lol you got a little excited with your language there "admission" i forgot you're christian.

It doesn't matter what the symbolism means to Muslims now though, my discussion of the subject wasn't wholly a matter of value judgment. I was discussing the history and symbolism of the crescent and it's origins. That is undoubtedly rooted in paganism. Canuck refuses to believe the idea that there is any relation between the old paganism seeping into modern day Islam even via culture. And yea, I'm aware that the crescent isn't an official symbol in Islam according to the Qur'anic scripture, but that just gives more credence to those who say the crescent doesn't belong in Islam.

Regardless, that last bit is more of a matter of individual interpretation among Muslims. Some Muslims who are purists will have a problem with the pagan roots of this symbol as well as the whole lunar calendar thing...while others, like yourself, may not see anything harmful about it as long as it isn't shirk. I understood your previous points and agreed with you when you brought it up last, hence my liking your post. Me being Christian has nothing to do with any of this, seeing as Christianity would also be considered as "tainted" by paganism as well. They is no moral ground/superiority that I could even claim if I tried (thus, nothing to get excited about).

 

[embarassing]

She needs somebody to speak her slowly and explain it word by word in order to get the meaning. You got to be super patient.

no need to be mean sis she hasn't been disrespectful

 

[embarassing]

It doesn't matter what the symbolism means to Muslims now though, my discussion of the subject wasn't wholly a matter of value judgment. I was discussing the history and symbolism of the crescent and it's origins. That is undoubtedly rooted in paganism. Canuck refuses to believe the idea that there is any relation between the old paganism seeping into modern day Islam via even culture. And yea, I'm aware that the crescent isn't an official symbol in Islam according to the Qur'anic scripture, but that just gives more credence to those who say the crescent doesn't belong in Islam.

Regardless, that last bit is more of a matter of individual interpretation among Muslims. Some Muslims who are purists will have a problem with the pagan roots of this symbol as well as the whole lunar calendar thing...while others, like yourself, may not see anything harmful about it as long as it isn't shirk. I understood your previous points and agreed with you when you brought it up last, hence my liking your post. Me being Christian has nothing to do with any of this, seeing as Christianity would also be considered as "tainted" by paganism as well. They is no moral ground/superiority that I could even claim if I tried (thus, nothing to get excited about).

I meant no offence when I said you're christian, just you using the word "admission" reminded me, as if there is a secret people are trying to hide lol
we understand each other anyway. It is culture and there isn't anything wrong with harmless things like that (my opinion).

Those types aren't even purists they're just a bit confused, the kaba itself was used by pagans, thats in the Quran.

 

[InfoMatic]

You can't prove that the crescent symbolism doesn't originate from paganism...so you resort to cheap name calling instead. How sad.
I'm done with this conversation; Eid Mubarak to you hun, may your fast be accepted.

"Star and crescent[edit]

Further information: Star and crescent

The star and crescent symbol became strongly associated with the Ottoman Empire in the 19th century, a symbol that had been used throughout the middle east extending back to pre-Islamic times, especially in the Byzantine Empire and Crusader States which occupied the lands later assumed by the Ottoman Empire. By extension from the use in Ottoman lands, it became a symbol also for Islam as a whole, as well as representative of western Orientalism.

"Star and Crescent" was used as a metaphor for the rule of the Islamic empires (Ottoman and Persian) in the late 19th century in British literature.[5] This association was apparently strengthened by the increasingly ubiquitous fashion of using the star and crescent symbol in the ornamentation of Ottoman mosques and minarets.[6] The "Red Crescent" emblem was adopted by volunteers of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) as early as 1877 during the Russo-Turkish War; it was officially adopted in 1929.

After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in 1922, the star and crescent was used in several national flags adopted by its successor states. The star and crescent in the flag of the Kingdom of Libya (1951) was explicitly given an Islamic interpretation by associating it with "the story of Hijra (migration) of our Prophet Mohammed"[7] By the 1950s, this symbolism was embraced by movements of Arab nationalism or Islamism, such as the proposed Arab Islamic Republic (1974) and the American Nation of Islam (1973).[8]"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbols_of_Islam

 

[TooMacaan]

Adeer are you an atheist mise troll?
im not religious expert but my understanding is, if the moon and the entire sky features are gods creations then it will be logical ppl will see them as marvelous things and would prostate/pray them as gods. but then stop when god sends them prophets.

Atheist? Nah. Even worse, a Christian.
I agree with you, it makes sense why people would worship the moon and even more so, the sun, as if these things were Gods since it was the age of ignorance. I was only curious about how those pagan beliefs could still play a heavy part in modern Abrahamic faiths (since the truth has already been revealed now). Yes, ofc, culture has a big role in tying old beliefs to modern day religion but what surprises me is how it hasn't already been filtered out...seeing as how tons of sects have been created only due to minor differences in interpretation of holy texts.

"Star and crescent[edit]

Further information: Star and crescent
The star and crescent symbol became strongly associated with the Ottoman Empire in the 19th century, a symbol that had been used throughout the middle east extending back to pre-Islamic times, especially in the Byzantine Empire and Crusader States which occupied the lands later assumed by the Ottoman Empire. By extension from the use in Ottoman lands, it became a symbol also for Islam as a whole, as well as representative of western Orientalism.

"Star and Crescent" was used as a metaphor for the rule of the Islamic empires (Ottoman and Persian) in the late 19th century in British literature.[5] This association was apparently strengthened by the increasingly ubiquitous fashion of using the star and crescent symbol in the ornamentation of Ottoman mosques and minarets.[6] The "Red Crescent" emblem was adopted by volunteers of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) as early as 1877 during the Russo-Turkish War; it was officially adopted in 1929.

After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in 1922, the star and crescent was used in several national flags adopted by its successor states. The star and crescent in the flag of the Kingdom of Libya (1951) was explicitly given an Islamic interpretation by associating it with "the story of Hijra (migration) of our Prophet Mohammed"[7] By the 1950s, this symbolism was embraced by movements of Arab nationalism or Islamism, such as the proposed Arab Islamic Republic (1974) and the American Nation of Islam (1973).[8]"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbols_of_Islam

And what inspired the Ottomans to adopt this symbol?? My point still stands that it was used in pre-Islamic times in the ME. A.k.a pagan symbol.

 

[InfoMatic]

Also, the star is known as the Solomon's Shield in reference to Prophet Solomon. It is just symbol like many other symbols such as Shahada in calligraphy, the black flag etc used in the Islamic and Oriental world way back. It is not pagan practice adopted into Islam because that would contradict the strict monotheism of Islam.

 

[InfoMatic]

Some more perspective also is in here:

https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-1411,00.html


"A DETAILED answer will be found in the entry 'Hilal' Encyclopaedia of Islam (second edition, Brill, Leiden, 1960). Professor Richard Ettinghausen, writer of the entry, notes that crescent moon (hilal) motif is featured with a five or six pointed star (the latter known as Solomon's shield in the Islamic world ) on early Islamic coins circa 695 AD, but it carried no distinct Islamic connotation. Some 500 years later, it appears in association with various astrological/astronomical symbols on 12th century Islamic metal-work, but when depicted in manuscript painting, held by a seated man, it is thought to represent the authority of a high court official: 'the sun [is] to the king and the moon [is] to the vizier ... ' Its use as a roof finial on Islamic buildings also dates from this medieval period but the motif still had no specific religious meaning as it decorated all types of architecture, secular as well as religious. In fact Ettinghausen argues that it was the European assumption that this was a religious and national emblem that led to several Muslim governments adopting it officially during the 19th century.

(Dr) Patricia Baker, Farnham, Surrey."

 

[InfoMatic]

This should put to rest any claim of religious significance for the crescent symbols in Islam. Also, those of you who don't know an answer to a question, it is better to refrain from answering with your opinion lest to misguide someone or deepen their confusion, or lend a hand to their willful twist of facts in search of making Islam similar to their superstitious beliefs..

There is only One God in Islam worthy of Worship, the rest are creatures created by God worthy of no worship. Jesus was born to a woman, grew up like any human being, he ate, slept, worshipped the God who sent him, he used the bathroom, he feared, he prayed to God, he asked for the help of people, he preached , he was the messenger of the God of the Universe and Jesus will be asked whether he told his followers to worship him and his mother, and he will deny such blasphemy.

There is no excuse to worship a human like Jesus peace be upon him. Read your Bibles to see Jesus speak of his message, you will see him peaching the ten commandments and people to keep them if they want to go heaven,

He did not die for anyone's sin but God saved him from the people who wanted to kill him. Today's Christianity is the creation of St. Paul who preached contrary message to what Jesus himself preached. Islam is what Jesus preached. There is no legitimacy to religion on earth but one that teaches the submission to the Creator.

 

[embarassing]

Atheist? Nah. Even worse, a Christian.
I agree with you, it makes sense why people would worship the moon and even more so, the sun, as if these things were Gods since it was the age of ignorance. I was only curious about how those pagan beliefs could still play a heavy part in modern Abrahamic faiths (since the truth has already been revealed now). Yes, ofc, culture has a big role in tying old beliefs to modern day religion but what surprises me is how it hasn't already been filtered out...seeing as how tons of sects have been created only due to minor differences in interpretation of holy texts.



And what inspired the Ottomans to adopt this symbol?? My point still stands that it was used in pre-Islamic times in the ME. A.k.a pagan symbol.

Why would it need to be filtered out? Why do you assume pagan practices are all bad? All the bad was filtered out in Islam, its not in the Quran (shirk). All the bad was filtered for us in the revelation but people will always err and do what they want, people have their own minds/decisions.

Are you asking why God didn't make us all knowing and sinless? There will always be different sects and opinions we are individuals with our own minds who get to choose who and what to believe follow or not follow.

No one is saying its an islamic symbol

 

[El padrone]

Atheist? Nah. Even worse, a Christian.
I agree with you, it makes sense why people would worship the moon and even more so, the sun, as if these things were Gods since it was the age of ignorance. I was only curious about how those pagan beliefs could still play a heavy part in modern Abrahamic faiths (since the truth has already been revealed now). Yes, ofc, culture has a big role in tying old beliefs to modern day religion but what surprises me is how it hasn't already been filtered out...seeing as how tons of sects have been created only due to minor differences in interpretation of holy texts.



And what inspired the Ottomans to adopt this symbol?? My point still stands that it was used in pre-Islamic times in the ME. A.k.a pagan symbol.

Define pagan beliefs? ofc gods greatest creations and signs will be the symbol of his religion just like how you would put your skills and qualifications on your cv.

its just coincidence and obvious to those ppl that these symbols had significance