Some Somalis are now claiming Harar, and calling Hararis a fake ethnicity

[ZizuFlyer]

Hararis or ” Harla kombe “ are Darood and the brother of Harti, Geri, Jiraan….

 

[Abdisamadi]

The whole story of Harla people is so confusing

How did they have a Pagan kingdom in the 6th century if they were native Cushites

 

[GaradShabeel]

Harar no longer had historical importance after the 16 century, and Adala capital moved to Awsa The city became surrounded by walls and controlled by the Imam
and Today it is an Oromo city

Kulaha Harar is an Oromo city kkk. Have you been there? They are a minority in the city.

 

[mohammdov]

Kulaha Harar is an Oromo city kkk. Have you been there? They are a minority in the city.

Yes I went to Harar Hospital when I was kid
The Amhara and Oromo are the largest, but in the out of the city there are beeraha qaadka most of it are owned by the Oromo

 

[Step a side]

Yes I went to Harar Hospital when I was kid
The Amhara and Oromo are the largest, but in the out of the city there are beeraha qaadka most of it are owned by the Oromo

They are majority Hawiye. I posted this video several times. Don’t let the Oromo language deceive you. Watch till the end. He mentions many of the Oromo tribes that are Hawiye around Harar.

 

[mohammdov]

They are majority Hawiye. I posted this video several times. Don’t let the Oromo language deceive you. Watch till the end. He mentions many of the Oromo tribes that are Hawiye around Harar.

If they do not speak Somali and marry from Nul And the rest of the Oromo tribes they are no longer Somali They are not part of the Somali region

 

[Step a side]

If they do not speak Somali and marry from Nul And the rest of the Oromo tribes they are no longer Somali They are not part of the Somali region

They are bilingual. Listen to how the elder switches from Oromo to Somali. Some of them on the Oromia side claim Hawiye and Oromo while the once on the Somali side claim Hawiye and Somali. Dir, Darood and Hawiye etc are lineages that you are born with that can never change. Language’s however are easily changed. I can leave Somali and adopt Mandarin tomorrow.

 

[Riftvalley]

They are bilingual. Listen to how the elder switches from Oromo to Somali. Some of them on the Oromia side claim Hawiye and Oromo while the once on the Somali side claim Hawiye and Somali. Dir, Darood and Hawiye etc are lineages that you are born with that can never change. Language’s however are easily changed. I can leave Somali and adopt Mandarin tomorrow.

After the laftinga saga, these guys are Oromos until proven otherwise

 

[Step a side]

After the laftinga saga, these guys are Oromos until proven otherwise

What’s their to proof? Harar is surrounded by East Hararge. East Hararge has about 17 districts and we live in 9 of those districts with either majority or a large plurality. We also live in West Hararge in Mieso and Hawiya Gudina. Our presence in the region is unmatched. Here you see fellow Hawiye from Harage celebrating the Karanle national day speaking Somali in the 1st video while in the 2nd video she switched to speaking the Oromo language. Languages are useless. I’m not Anglo Saxon just because I speak English

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[Abdisamadi]

What’s their to proof? Harar is surrounded by East Hararge. East Hararge has about 17 districts and we live in 9 of those districts with either majority or a large plurality. We also live in West Hararge in Mieso and Hawiya Gudina. Our presence in the region is unmatched. Here you see fellow Hawiye from Harage celebrating the Karanle national day speaking Somali in the 1st video while in the 2nd video she switched to speaking the Oromo language. Languages are useless. I’m not Anglo Saxon just because I speak English

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Somalis are the majority in most of the East?

 

[Xareen]

All semetic langugaes at one point had their origin in the highlands, if they didn't come recently Ethiopia would've controlled this area much earlier.

Harari's Cushitic substrata, as opposed to Agaw, is Sidamo. How?

 

[Abdisamadi]

Harari's Cushitic substrata, as opposed to Agaw, is Sidamo. How?

Sidamas had an expansion way before Oromos, somewhere around the fourteenth century. That’s why Sidamic kingdoms like Kaffa started during this time.

Now that you bring it up i theorise if this was the starting point of this expansion, the Harla region

 

[garangar]

The Harla however who founded Harar were an ethnic Somali clan mentioned in Futah and other sources. Primary sources and genetic testing prove it all.

How do we know the genetic descendants? Have we found ancient or medieval remains of verified Harla people to compare? If there's a study I'd love to read it, haven't come across anything like that.

 

[enda_el]

Weren’t the Somalis and assigned their own leases and put into different battalions and they kept falling out during the war? I don’t think we can categorically state the Harla were a Somali clan.

Thats not the whole truth. Yes, pastoral peripheral somalis outside of the direct control of Adal were conquered and then conscripted. But, somalis were also integral to Adal, and were in the elite Malasay armored warriors. the arab writer may have not been able to distinguish from the nonsomali adalites, but peripheral pastorals would have been obvious. The former director of oriental studies at the german institute in lebanon, Manfred Kropp wrote about this using Harari manuscripts. This is translated from German. The hararis wrote themselves that there was a situation where Malasays deserted, and they were called Ermag and Temur. He doesnt know what Ermag is. But Hararis then and even now call Somalis Temur. At the end of the day, we have to recognize that the Futuh was written by an Arab who would not be aware of all the complexities of social identities in the horn, so it should not be taken as gospel when addressing such things. The same writer wrote that Harlas were Somali, but noone takes them as such because of that. So why the opposite direction? @HabarSteven12 @Step a side

 

[NidarNidar]

Thats not the whole truth. Yes, pastoral peripheral somalis outside of the direct control of Adal were conquered and then conscripted. But, somalis also integral to Adal, and were in the elite Malasay armored warriors. the arab writer may have not been able to distinguish from the nonsomali adalites, but peripheral pastorals would have been obvious. The historian Manfred Kropp wrote about this using Harari manuscripts. This is translated from German. The hararis wrote themselves that there was a situation where Malasays deserted, and they were called Ermag and Temur. He doesnt know what Ermag is. But Hararis then and even now call Somalis Temur. At the end of the day, we have to recognize that the Futuh was written by an Arab who would not be aware of all the complexities of social identities in the horn, so it should not be taken as gospel when addressing such things. The same writer wrote that Harlas were Somali, but noone takes them as such because of that. So why the opposite direction? @HabarSteven12
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Malasay commanders were called Garad, safe to say they were an elite branch of the Adal military with Somali commanders/soldiers mixed in with other muslims.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antemoro_people#cite_note-FOOTNOTEGennep1904113-20

 

[enda_el]

Malasay commanders were called Garad, safe to say they were an elite branch of the Adal military with Somali commanders/soldiers mixed in with other muslims.
View attachment 348557
View attachment 348558

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antemoro_people#cite_note-FOOTNOTEGennep1904113-20

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[The Oponian Guild]

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Could be true, I don’t know why random people in Madagascar would claim Dir origin out of the blue

 

[Idilinaa]

Thats not the whole truth. Yes, pastoral peripheral somalis outside of the direct control of Adal were conquered and then conscripted. But, somalis were also integral to Adal, and were in the elite Malasay armored warriors. the arab writer may have not been able to distinguish from the nonsomali adalites, but peripheral pastorals would have been obvious. The former director of oriental studies at the german institute in lebanon, Manfred Kropp wrote about this using Harari manuscripts. This is translated from German. The hararis wrote themselves that there was a situation where Malasays deserted, and they were called Ermag and Temur. He doesnt know what Ermag is. But Hararis then and even now call Somalis Temur. At the end of the day, we have to recognize that the Futuh was written by an Arab who would not be aware of all the complexities of social identities in the horn, so it should not be taken as gospel when addressing such things. The same writer wrote that Harlas were Somali, but noone takes them as such because of that. So why the opposite direction? @HabarSteven12 @Step a side
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Temur and semur are occupational names. It's how Soomaal(Pastoralist) and Tumaal(Blacksmith) is pronounced in ethio semetic speech.

Harari doesn't have those names written down Enrico Cerulli just saw them repeat that name Somalis use for eachother and as most Somalis in Harar were blacksmiths aka Tumaal Semer/Simur was mentioned in the Yeshaq christian chronicles and by the portuguese that mentions malasay.

It's actually proof that the groups in Futuh were no ethio-semetic speakers, otherwise the occupational name Somal would have been spelled as Semur/Simur.

I don't believe Adal was multi ethnic it was just a collection of sedentary Somali agricultural-pastoral clans and pastoral clans. Afar, Harari, or Agrogoba are not mentioned at all and it's political economic heartland is in northern Somalia/galbeed.

We go through it in this thread:

Futuh al-Habasha: Somalis As Bedouins

Recently I've been reading a book about the Bedouin of Arabia: A very lovely book that gives you a nice glimpse into Bedouin Arab culture. In it I noticed that many settled Arabs had the historical habit of referring to pastoral nomadic Arabs (the Badu/Bedouin) as "The Arabs". Mothers would...

www.somalispot.com

The pastoralists weren't outside the direct control of Adal or conquered , they were the country side inhabitants which were often recruited or made up the army and they supported different factions. Futuh just opens up with Somali tribes gathering after being sent a notice and there is no conquering hapening, its the tribes/clans that make up the Sultanate centered in Harar gathering for war.

Most of the tribes/clans mentioned with the exception of Harti which is twice said to be from Maydh are Somali tribes/clans that live in and around harar or further west.

Some of them supported the Sa'ad din faction with the sultan Abu Bakr and some supported Imam Ahmed. Imam Ahmed is figthing against the sultanate faction. Sometimes they were supporting different Emirs fighting. They are clashing with eachother throughout Futuh.

As for Malasay you can clearly see that most of them were compromised of pastoralists(Somaals) it says it plainly in Futuh.

''If we go back, the majority of the Malasai will follow our lead and that will leave very few'' with the imam''

Futuh also describes that is a title. It's likely that its the title Malakh which means ''War Leader''

And Malasay was a Military title and Futuh plainly says it with no specific tribal attachement:

Which i am positively certain is the title Malaakh which means ''War Leader' among sedentary Somali communities.

 

[Idilinaa]

As for Harla seperation from other tribes. Richard Burton visited the same area and noticed how sedentary Somali darood tribes were not split into independent separate clans like the pastoralists(bedouins) who was led by their own seperate leaders

Go through it on this post:

Even in Futuh you can clearly see that Harla is just a Qabil and not an ethnicity. When they are mentioned alongside other clans , for example in this passage

Unless you also want to believe that Habr Maqdi and Geri are ethnicities also. You can't make any other sense of it.

Anyone positing that they are ethio-semetic will have hard time arguing that point. There is no ethio-semetic group divided into somali sub-clan structure . Not even the harari. Did they just delete the sub-clans that are mentioned in Futuh?


Harla and the other sedentary clans mentioned in Futuh are described as:
- As being joint led by 1 Sultan
- Harla is led by a Sultan/Leader from another tribe Zarba and not their own.

- ''Soomals''(Bedouin) clans are led each by their own independent Emirs.

This is exactly the same way in which Richard Burton explains the distinction between Sedentary Somali clans and Nomadic/Bedouin clans in the same area nearly 400 years later.

 

[Zak12]

and there is no conquering hapening,

So the stuff about Imam Ahmed subjugating some nomadic Somali clans to fight for him is false? Cause I usually see that as an argument against Adal or Gurey not being Somali but I ignored it since I thought it was an isolated example since Somalis were the first people to answer the call of the Imam.