Some Somalis are now claiming Harar, and calling Hararis a fake ethnicity

[NidarNidar]

Atleast in R/Ethiopia and Oromia they don't ban you.

 

[Idilinaa]

Atleast in R/Ethiopia and Oromia they don't ban you.
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So much wrong with the first post.

There wasn't any large scale arab migration into the horn at any given time nor did Imam Ahmed encourage it. Infact the Imam outsted a bunch of Mahra Arabs after they attacked Zeila and killed some of his people.

Translated transcript from a manuscript:

The Arabs left Zaila in 1540

On the night of the third Sunday of Jumada al-Awwal in year 947(1540) "a group arrived from Zeila. In it, Sharif Muhammad Al-Shatri and Sharif Bascotta moved from Zeila from its devastation, the oppression of the Sultan, and the devastation of Barr Saad Al-Din. They mentioned that there was no...

www.somalispot.com

At the beginning of Muharram: al-qarar/al-garad muhammad bin Ibrahim went out, along with his brother ahmad al-mujahid, the the owner/sultan of barr saad al-din, with four hundred cavalry, and thousands of infantries to Zaila, when he learned of the killing of al-mahra to his prince and scribe, sa'id, and he came forward in the year four. Those of al-mahra who killed him.

He did not come up until the killer had fled, and the resident mahris did not think that he would punish them for the sin of their companions. In Zaila, a group of mahrahs had an travellers, and a group of their wujuh/representative were there, so he arrested them, plundered them, took their money, and killed two of them, one of whom was saad bin amr bin salman al-muhammadi, and he was the greatest of his companions with courage and determination. The second was sihah bin muhammad al-zuwaidi, the sheikh of the House of sihah and the most senior and wisest of them. He captured the rest and brought them to land. Among them was Suleiman bin Haywah, the master of his cousins, the best of them and the most generous of them. He died there, may God have mercy on him, and Ahmed bin Muqaddam bin Afrar also died. With the plague, the rest were released.

Adal leaders didn't seek refuge in Yemen to escape Amhara/Abyssinians, although there was political and economic alliance between them and Yemen. Since there was a large community of Somalis in Zabid Yemen close to the Yemeni sultan. This is one of the bigger misconceptions brought by secondary sources.

Infact Sa'ad Din was victorious and all the battles were taking place in the western border frontiers. His demise came from local political opponents within the sultanate that sought to replace him with another family member. So 200 years before Imam Ahmed the Ethiopians were just constantly losing to Wali Asma and never managed to reach the political and economic center of the sultanate.

Also during the conquest they did not rely on arab man power . There was 1 Yemeni from Al Jawf, 70 Mehris, and 10 Moroccans. Arabs were a miniscule part of the army that consisted of mainly tens of thousands of Somalis and local recruits.

Ottomans didn't assist the Imam in invading Abyssinia. The came out victorious
Key Dimensions in Abyssinia-Ottoman Relations in the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries: A Critical Review of Literatures
https://www.jpanafrican.org/docs/vol10no1/10.1-16-Miftah.pdf

All the Emirs of Harar except for Uthman Al-Habashi(Emir nur's slave) was Somali until one of the Somali Emirs married into and was adopted by Gurage speaking Oromo around mid 1800s, when he also jailed his family.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

Just the Antemoro elites claim ancestry, particularly to Dir, not sure what subclan but it some of them do get T-L208.

"The Antemoro, claims descent from Somali Arab traders. European and Middle eastern paternal ancestry is also present. Antemoro villages are primarily clustered in the southeastern coastal area near Vohipeno and Manakara.[4] Society was traditionally divided into two broad categories: the mpanombily (or tompomenakely), who were nobles said to be descended from Somalis from the Dir clan."

I dove into the web for quite some time looking for either secondhand accounts or actual claims laid by the people themselves, and nothing mentions Somalis. Somalis have poluted the internet with this false info lol, you get a good dozen andom articles sharing it now.

So far I came across several french texts talking about them. The first claim about them being of arab ancestry stands up. They're thought to be the community that introduced writing to the native populations of the island with the arabic script, which then turned into the Sorabe script(arabic adjusted to malagasy). They're known for their paper making skills and their centuries old registries/scriptures. They keep track of their own genealogies and all point to Mecca, Medina and the Hejaz in general as their ancestral home (I've seen about Levantine ancestry as well in the french texts). And all of that, despite not being muslim anymore for a substantial part of them.

Here's a video of an Arab youtuber visiting an Antemoro village.

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Now when it comes to genetics, the only thing linking them to Somalis is haplogroup T.
Yet

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Pretty clear ! Quite lucky that this completely unrelated topic gets a few lines into this study hehe

 

[NidarNidar]

I dove into the web for quite some time looking for either secondhand accounts or actual claims laid by the people themselves, and nothing mentions Somalis. Somalis have poluted the internet with this false info lol, you get a good dozen andom articles sharing it now.

So far I came across several french texts talking about them. The first claim about them being of arab ancestry stands up. They're thought to be the community that introduced writing to the native populations of the island with the arabic script, which then turned into the Sorabe script(arabic adjusted to malagasy). They're known for their paper making skills and their centuries old registries/scriptures. They keep track of their own genealogies and all point to Mecca, Medina and the Hejaz in general as their ancestral home (I've seen about Levantine ancestry as well in the french texts). And all of that, despite not being muslim anymore for a substantial part of them.

Here's a video of an Arab youtuber visiting an Antemoro village.

Spoiler

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Now when it comes to genetics, the only thing linking them to Somalis is haplogroup T.
Yet

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Pretty clear ! Quite lucky that this completely unrelated topic gets a few lines into this study hehe

I wouldn't be surprised if it was just Sheikhs who went there to spread Islam.

Great find

edit: going to read this a bit further.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was just Sheikhs who went there to spread Islam, did they mention what haplogroups the arab lineages belong to?

"Although the majority of Antemoro genetic ancestry comes from sub-Saharan African and Southeast Asian gene pools, we observed in their paternal lineages two specific haplogroups (J1 and T1) linked to Middle Eastern origins. This inheritance was restricted to some Antemoro sub-groups. Statistical analyses tended to confirm significant Middle Eastern genetic contribution."

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"The T1 haplogroup, found at very low frequency in the world, seems to have a Southwestern Asia origin and to be associated with many demographic processes such as the spread of agriculture, the Assyrian and Babylonian exiles and the Jewish Diaspora [49]. Its presence in eastern Asia could be due to commercial and cultural exchanges via the former Silk Road [50]. Currently, it is found mainly in the Middle East but also in eastern Africa, northern Africa and probably in other regions that have been in contact with these geographic areas. However, the J1 Median-Joining network on the minimal haplotype showed that the J1 haplotype in the Antemoro corresponded exactly to those found in individuals from Cyprus, Turkey and Palestine (Figure 6) and was close to some haplotypes from the Comoros."

Tracing Arab-Islamic Inheritance in Madagascar: Study of the Y-chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA in the Antemoro

Madagascar is located at the crossroads of the Asian and African worlds and is therefore of particular interest for studies on human population migration. Within the large human diversity of the Great Island, we focused our study on a particular ethnic group, the Antemoro. Their culture presents...

hal.univ-reunion.fr

 

[Idilinaa]

I dove into the web for quite some time looking for either secondhand accounts or actual claims laid by the people themselves, and nothing mentions Somalis. Somalis have poluted the internet with this false info lol, you get a good dozen andom articles sharing it now.

So far I came across several french texts talking about them. The first claim about them being of arab ancestry stands up. They're thought to be the community that introduced writing to the native populations of the island with the arabic script, which then turned into the Sorabe script(arabic adjusted to malagasy). They're known for their paper making skills and their centuries old registries/scriptures. They keep track of their own genealogies and all point to Mecca, Medina and the Hejaz in general as their ancestral home (I've seen about Levantine ancestry as well in the french texts). And all of that, despite not being muslim anymore for a substantial part of them.

Here's a video of an Arab youtuber visiting an Antemoro village.

Spoiler

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Now when it comes to genetics, the only thing linking them to Somalis is haplogroup T.
Yet

Spoiler

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Pretty clear ! Quite lucky that this completely unrelated topic gets a few lines into this study hehe

It didn't come from Somalis, it came from various writers from the 1900s that said they were migrants from the Somali coast.

Do they show break down of their genealogical claims? could be that the so called Arabs ancestry they claim is Aqili like Somalis claim.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

It didn't come from Somalis, it came from various writers from the 1900s that said they were migrants from the Somali coast.

Do they show break down of their genealogical claims? could be that the so called Arabs ancestry they came from forums like ours and ended up with

Histoire des ancêtres Antemoro-Anteony - Persée

Their "nobles" are like sultans and they do keep track of their ancestry, but they just do it to inherit the tribal title.

Here the author does a good work at writing down whatever the people tell him but he goes into rabbitholes trying to guess certain things (like them saying they come from Amika=Mecca) or makes silly assumptions thinking he can put up together missing pieces. At one point he suggested a group of muslims from all around the east med and hejaz took to the sea and brought with them African slaves, solely based on certain Antemoro patronyms.

The Antemoro seem to have lost a good part of their knowledge during the last centuries but the little they still recall is enough to roughly tell us the story.

The author says this :

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From everything I've read, including what people put as sources on wikipedia, i haven't seen anything serious about us

 

[Idilinaa]

Histoire des ancêtres Antemoro-Anteony - Persée

Their "nobles" are like sultans and they do keep track of their ancestry, but they just do it to inherit the tribal title.

Here the author does a good work at writing down whatever the people tell him but he goes into rabbitholes trying to guess certain things (like them saying they come from Amika=Mecca) or makes silly assumptions thinking he can put up together missing pieces. At one point he suggested a group of muslims from all around the east med and hejaz took to the sea and brought with them African slaves, solely based on certain Antemoro patronyms.

The Antemoro seem to have lost a good part of their knowledge during the last centuries but the little they still recall is enough to roughly tell us the story.

The author says this :

Spoiler

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From everything I've read, including what people put as sources on wikipedia, i haven't seen anything serious about us

If you look up a few sources mention them in connection with Somali , while they were debating their origins being from the swahili coast or arabia mostly, others put forward the argument that a portion of them may have come from the Somali coast.

R.K Kent gives a good break down of it.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/180295

I'll look into it to find more on their genealogical breakdown, believe that should tell us the most.