Sspots Views on abortion

[SuldaanSeven]

Anyone here arguing from an emotional stand point or is everyone lookin at this from a scriptural stand point?

I believe abortion is unacceptable and this should be the case regardless of what the circumstance is. Short on money? Tough! Didn't plan ahead? Tough! Just having some silly fun? Tough!

If you use the 'golden rule' which is "do On to others what you would have them do to you" then you'll see that abortion is against the laws of nature which govern us.

 

[Duchess]

Anyone here arguing from an emotional stand point or is everyone lookin at this from a scriptural stand point?

I believe abortion is unacceptable and this should be the case regardless of what the circumstance is. Short on money? Tough! Didn't plan ahead? Tough! Just having some silly fun? Tough!

If you use the 'golden rule' which is "do On to others what you would have them do to you" then you'll see that abortion is against the laws of nature which govern us.

What about rape? What if the mothers life is at risk? What if the fetus is deformed? etc

 

[John Michael]

What about rape? What if the mothers life is at risk? What if the fetus is deformed? etc

He's an idiot.

Kulaha emotional stand point. Smh.

 

[SuldaanSeven]

Duches are you saying that an innocent should pay for the crimes of its father?

 

[Duchess]

Duches are you saying that an innocent should pay for the crimes of its father?

An innocent what?

 

[SuldaanSeven]

An innocent what?

My point exactly an innocent and nothing more. It doesn't need to be a soul or the fetus at a certain stage of the development process. We'll just identify this piece of potential life as an innocent which will have its future in the hands of others.

 

[Hafez]

Where's the proof that it's haram?

Say, "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited to you. [He commands] that you not associate anything with Him, and to parents, good treatment, and do not kill your children out of poverty; We will provide for you and them. And do not approach immoralities - what is apparent of them and what is concealed. And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed] except by [legal] right. This has He instructed you that you may use reason." 6:151

"And do not kill your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Indeed, their killing is ever a great sin." 17:31

Some of the scholars are of the opinion that it's haraam in it's entirety, except if going through with labor would put the life of the mother in danger.

This is similar to the fact that if a person is starving for example and there's nothing that they could possibly eat besides swine, the swine becomes permissible for them to eat.

As a student of the Arabic language النفس can be interpreted as an entity, kind of like شخس.

Some of the scholars indicate that النفس means 'soul', like ar-Ruh if you will, but there's no proof for that.

Don't be hasty to issue verdicts (fatawa). I've noticed that you have some nerve to tell people what's haraam or halal without firm knowledge in either Arabic grammar or morphology, usul al-fiqh (this is very important for studying the origins of rulings), fiqh, tafsir, hadith, ahkaam, etc.

Do you then form an opinion different to the scholars despite having no knowledge of any of the branches of Islamic knowledge that I've mentioned?

Do you think our scholars are stupid? Islamic scholars are unmatched in their collective intelligence, memory, etc.

Imam Bukhari for example, would attend the lessons of the muhadittheen and would not write anything!

After a few days passed, students were getting fed up with him and telling him that he's wasting his time because he's not making any notes. After they kept bugging him, he narrated to them around 15,000 ahadith from his memory which he memorised within a few days after hearing the aHadith once! With its chain of narration and biography of the scholars! This is no joke, it's equivalent to over 40 university degrees in such a small time frame.

كُنْتُمْ لا تَعْلَمُونَ

"And We did not send before you except men whom We inspired to. So ask the People of the Reminder (Ahl-Azzikr / أهل الذكر

Maybe after you study for many years, you will realise the foolishness of your statements. No one is born knowledgeable, this is a fact but you want to issue verdicts (fataawa) without knowledge! The nerve!

Sahnoon ibn Sa’eed said: the most audacious of the people in giving fatwas is the one who has the least knowledge; a man may have a grasp of one branch of knowledge and he thinks that all the truth is to be found in this branch.

 

[Duchess]

My point exactly an innocent and nothing more. It doesn't need to be a soul or the fetus at a certain stage of the development process. We'll just identify this piece of potential life as an innocent which will have its future in the hands of others.

You're a hypocrite unless you have the same attitude towards every life form on this planet. They're all innocent.

 

[Duchess]

Say, "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited to you. [He commands] that you not associate anything with Him, and to parents, good treatment, and do not kill your children out of poverty; We will provide for you and them. And do not approach immoralities - what is apparent of them and what is concealed. And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed] except by [legal] right. This has He instructed you that you may use reason." 6:151

"And do not kill your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Indeed, their killing is ever a great sin." 17:31

Some of the scholars are of the opinion that it's haraam in it's entirety, except if going through with labor would put the life of the mother in danger.

This is similar to the fact that if a person is starving for example and there's nothing that they could possibly eat besides swine, the swine becomes permissible for them to eat.

As a student of the Arabic language النفس can be interpreted as an entity, kind of like شخس.

Some of the scholars indicate that النفس means 'soul', like ar-Ruh if you will, but there's no proof for that.

Don't be hasty to issue verdicts (fatawa). I've noticed that you have some nerve to tell people what's haraam or halal without firm knowledge in either Arabic grammar or morphology, usul al-fiqh (this is very important for studying the origins of rulings), fiqh, tafsir, hadith, ahkaam, etc.

Do you then form an opinion different to the scholars despite having no knowledge of any of the branches of Islamic knowledge that I've mentioned?

Do you think our scholars are stupid? Islamic scholars are unmatched in their collective intelligence, memory, etc.

Imam Bukhari for example, would attend the lessons of the muhadittheen and would not write anything!

After a few days passed, students were getting fed up with him and telling him that he's wasting his time because he's not making any notes. After they kept bugging him, he narrated to them around 15,000 ahadith from his memory which he memorised within a few days after hearing the aHadith once! With its chain of narration and biography of the scholars! This is no joke, it's equivalent to over 40 university degrees in such a small time frame.

كُنْتُمْ لا تَعْلَمُونَ

"And We did not send before you except men whom We inspired to. So ask the People of the Reminder (Ahl-Azzikr / أهل الذكر

Maybe after you study for many years, you will realise the foolishness of your statements. No one is born knowledgeable, this is a fact but you want to issue verdicts (fataawa) without knowledge! The nerve!

Sahnoon ibn Sa’eed said: the most audacious of the people in giving fatwas is the one who has the least knowledge; a man may have a grasp of one branch of knowledge and he thinks that all the truth is to be found in this branch.

I asked for proof that it was haram for a woman to have an abortion before the ruh was blown into the fetus, not for a lecture. Where is the proof? I'm still waiting.

The ayats you posted are not relevant in this situation given that this is before LIFE has been blown into the fetus, thus making it nothing more than a group of cells. It's not considered a child at this stage.

 

[SuldaanSeven]

You're a hypocrite unless you have the same attitude towards every life form on this planet. They're all innocent.

For arguments sake lets say I do value all life on this planet.

Now you still need to answer if a woman was raped does it make it right for her to terminate potential life for the crimes of the impregnator(rapist)

You could say its a philosophical question but it's one that deserves an answer none the less

 

[Hafez]

I asked for proof that it was haram for a woman to have an abortion before the ruh was blown into the fetus, not for a lecture. Where is the proof? I'm still waiting.

The ayats you posted are not relevant in this situation given that this is before LIFE has been blown into the fetus, thus making it nothing more than a group of cells. It's not considered a child at this stage.

Wallahi iyo Billahi you are a sign of Qiyaamah. What do you mean the Ayat are not proof? I defined النفس for you which is similar to الشخس. You cannot use النفس as its root word meaning in morphology since this is now a Masdar.

I can't explain to you because you will not understand. You are not on that level.

EVERY scholar is of the opinion that abortion is haraam except in certain cases.

We have a girl here possibly in here mid 30s that has no knowledge yet issuing fataawa people! The calamity!

Wallah I feel that I should make a thread warning people about you.

Who are you to say thousands of learned men are wrong about interpreting a simple word that even I can.

I don't even have 0.1% of Islamic knowledge!

You have no Ijaaza to do what you're doing and anything you say in retaliation beyond this is nothing but an emotional response.

At least seek knowledge before you talk!

It's not possible to become one of الراسخون في العلم without many years of study. Some think 30-40 years of study even then if only Allah (SWT) opens doors for you.

I've heard of many causes of arrogant doctors with PhDs thinking that they would be able to master the sciences of Islam within a short time-frame only to find out that they were struggling to grasp basic concepts and were below average in their circles.

Please be cautious when speaking about the rulings of Islam. You can tell people what's in your capacity (for example Pork is haram).

Wallah even I usually wouldn't speak about this, I would refer to the learned elders. Even if I have to make a phone call to those in Xamar.

 

[Duchess]

So no proof then?

 

[Hafez]

So no proof then?

The Qur'an, the words of Allah (SWT) is not proof enough? It's very clear you didn't understand anything I said to you. You are not on the level to understand the explanation.

لا حول و لا قوة الا بالله

 

[Duchess]

Im not on the level to understand the hidden knowledge of the Quran because I'm not a noble cadcad J1 ahlul bayt?

 

[Zuleikha]

https://islamqa.info/en/82334

http://islamqa.info/en/13317
As far as I know abortion is unacceptable and haram in Islam and its only allowed if the pregnancy is endangering the mother or rape. Allah knows best.

 

[Bohol]

I don't support abortion however I supported planned parenthood. If you're not fit to be a mother/
can't look after your children, simply stop shitting them out like a candy, it is cruel.

 

[Duchess]

Sheikh Abdal Hakim Murad on the classical Islamic opinions on abortion.


...but I'm wrong and misleading people.

 

[Hafez]

I stopped listening when he mentioned Cairo of course! Some of their scholars were openly free Masons LMAO! They tried introducing western ideology.

Look @Duchess he said the two
traditional views

1. that there wasn't any Hadith that explicitly or implicitly indicates its halal so abortion in its entirety is haram!

2. It's only permissible if having the baby endangers the mother (what I told you).

The ijtihad of the traditional scholars is thus established on this issue. Anything beyond that is not based on sound evidence.

If you want to carry on misleading people go ahead. You will be accountable in yomul Qiyaamah and it's a serious issue to speak about the deen without knowledge.

Knowledgeable and true Ulama like Mohamed ibn Hassan Ad Dedew would agree on this matter. The answer is clear, no difference of opinion.

There are pseudo scholars that even promote 'Quranism' which is clear kufr.

The late Shaykh Muhammad ibn Salim Ad-Doud (RH) would agree on with the ijtihad of the previous Ulama.

Abortion existed for millennia and the scholars have decreed its ruling with sound ijtihad!

I'm talking about the highest caliber of scholars, the mujtahideen, there's not been one for over 400 years.

 

[Duchess]

I don't know what video you watched but the Sheikh clearly stated @ 1:51 that abortion is halal before the spirit/ruh is breathed into the fetus. You said I have no Islamic knowledge so I brought you proof from someone who has more knowledge than the both of us and yet you reject it. The Sheikh even explained how the classical Islamic position has been overturned in the last century.

True Islam is pro-choice, alhamdulilah.

 

[Hafez]

I don't know what video you watched but the Sheikh clearly stated @ 1:51 that abortion is halal before the spirit/ruh is breathed into the fetus. You said I have no Islamic knowledge so I brought you proof from someone who has more knowledge than the both of us and yet you reject it. The Sheikh even explained how the classical Islamic position has been overturned in the last century.

True Islam is pro-choice, alhamdulilah.

Listen to all of it! He didn't stop there lmao. Pro-choice? As in you get to decide what's haram and halal?

Subhanallah