T-M184 Discussion

[Thegoodshepherd]

Yep.



Not conclusive yet.

Shocking tbh. The last clan that I would imagine to be real is Dir considering that everyone agrees it is the oldest. I guess this definitively rules out Isaaq as a real clan. Weird how they seem to have more so much more asabiyah than the D&M, who are also a fake clan.

Is there any evidence for Darod being a genetic clan?

 

[Prince Abubu]

Shocking tbh. The last clan that I would imagine to be real is Dir considering that everyone agrees it is the oldest. I guess this definitively rules out Isaaq as a real clan. Weird how they seem to have more so much more asabiyah than the D&M, who are also a fake clan.

Is there any evidence for Darod being a genetic clan?

Isaaq is a real clan, though. So far every major subclan of Isaaq has been found to have T-haplogroup. Which means that any E1b1b Isaaqs might have been sooraacs, and the true duriya lineage was T-M184. That's like saying Harti isn't a real clan because you guys have people with J1 and T haplogroups.

This also proves Isaaq is indeed a subclan of Dir, not a completely separate entity like we believe.

So far Dir seems to be the most consistent and self-contained clan in Somalia.

 

[shum33]

I guess this definitively rules out Isaaq as a real clan.

The man said it was not conclusive and you came up with this conclusion. Something is wrong with you
No somali clan that claims the same abtirisi have the same genetic ancestry most clans are just a confederation

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

Darood = real, most daroods share a common ancestor 800 years ago corresponding to Shiekh Abdurahman converting local Dir population to Islam.

Isaaq = real, the original haplogroup of Isaaq was T-M184. Ciidagalle and Habar Yoonis have their own subclade mutation that dates back to 750 years ago around the time of Shiekh Isaaq converting the Magaadle Dir to Islam.

Dir = real, all subclans carry high percentages of T-M184.

Conclusion, Abdurahman and Isaaq were very likely Somali men, not Arab and their clans are real.

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

Darood = real, most daroods share a common ancestor 800 years ago corresponding to Shiekh Abdurahman converting local Dir population to Islam.

Isaaq = real, the original haplogroup of Isaaq was T-M184. Ciidagalle and Habar Yoonis have their own subclade mutation that dates back to 750 years ago around the time of Shiekh Isaaq converting the Magaadle Dir to Islam.

Dir = real, all subclans carry high percentages of T-M184.

Conclusion, Abdurahman and Isaaq were very likely Somali men, not Arab and their clans are real.

Back in the old days, the difference between Islamnimo and Arabnimo was blurred for many people. The question is did those Clan founders claim to be Arabs themselves or was it later attributed to them by others?

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

Back in the old days, the difference between Islamnimo and Arabnimo was blurred for many people. The question is did those Clan founders claim to be Arabs themselves or was it later attributed to them by others?

A lot of Isaaq claim Shiekh Isaaq was Somali Dir and even a brother of Sheikh Samaroon. I think the Arabs business came much later, I don't know about daroods tho.

 

[Pioneer]

Darood = real, most daroods share a common ancestor 800 years ago corresponding to Shiekh Abdurahman converting local Dir population to Islam.

Isaaq = real, the original haplogroup of Isaaq was T-M184. Ciidagalle and Habar Yoonis have their own subclade mutation that dates back to 750 years ago around the time of Shiekh Isaaq converting the Magaadle Dir to Islam.

Dir = real, all subclans carry high percentages of T-M184.

Conclusion, Abdurahman and Isaaq were very likely Somali men, not Arab and their clans are real.

Very interesting Hypothesis.

 

[The Somali Caesar]

Very interesting Hypothesis.

If that’s true how come most of us have little to no Arab dna in our dna tests?

 

[Pioneer]

If that’s true how come most of us have little to no Arab dna in our dna tests?

Somali Genetic/Ancestry testing is still not complete, we will know more, when thousands take the test.

Did you do the test?

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

If that’s true how come most of us have little to no Arab dna in our dna tests?

Because the clan founders were likely not Arab.

 

[Gallant]

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[Pioneer]

Isaaq is a real clan, though. So far every major subclan of Isaaq has been found to have T-haplogroup. Which means that any E1b1b Isaaqs might have been sooraacs, and the true duriya lineage was T-M184. That's like saying Harti isn't a real clan because you guys have people with J1 and T haplogroups.

This also proves Isaaq is indeed a subclan of Dir, not a completely separate entity like we believe.

So far Dir seems to be the most consistent and self-contained clan in Somalia.

Interesting bro, but we are not completely done with testing HA and HJ thats my opinion lets wait and see.

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

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i believe its Cushitic in nature. Coptic, the closest language subgroup to Cushitic also contain these sounds.

Coptic

ⲁϣⲁⲓ / ʕšai

[əʕˈʃai]

'to multiply'

 

[Prince Abubu]

i believe its Cushitic in nature. Coptic, the closest language subgroup to Cushitic also contain these sounds.

You have any proof for that? I was under the impression Berber and Semitic were closer to Egyptian than Cushitic was. That's the current hypothesis, I think.

Coptic

ⲁϣⲁⲓ / ʕšai

[əʕˈʃai]

'to multiply'

[/QUOTE]

 

[Asrafael]

Berber and Semitic are closer - and they are closer to Cushitic.

Egyptian is very distantly removed from Berber/Semitic. It is closest to Chadic.

Egyptian gained most of its Semitic and Berber influences due to Libyan and Semitic migrations and language shifting.

I think the pre-Egyptian Lower Egyptians were maybe speaking some Berber/Semitic related language - but whatever they spoke, they were later Egyptianized by Saharan nomadic proto-Egyptians that split from early Chadics.

Any Z183 specialist know the tribal identities of the Qatari Z813 cluster? or the Saudi ones? are they only Hubaysh or are there Bani Tamim under the Somali subclade?

 

[The Somali Caesar]

Because the clan founders were likely not Arab.

I agree with you but i also think the clans are confederations with multiple founders. For example my clan Habar Jeclo has 2 major Haplogroups (T and E).

 

[Prince Abubu]

Berber and Semitic are closer - and they are closer to Cushitic.

Egyptian is very distantly removed from Berber/Semitic. It is closest to Chadic.

Egyptian gained most of its Semitic and Berber influences due to Libyan and Semitic migrations and language shifting.

Do you mean Berber and Semitic are closer to Cushitic than Egyptian, but that Berber and Semitic are also closer to Egyptian than Cushitic is?

So something like this;

Cushitic.......>Berber...>Semitic...........................>Egyptian......>Chadic

I think the pre-Egyptian Lower Egyptians were maybe speaking some Berber/Semitic related language - but whatever they spoke, they were later Egyptianized by Saharan nomadic proto-Egyptians that split from early Chadics.

Is this backed by any linguistic expert? I find it hard to believe that Egyptian is closer to Chadic than Berber is, and that Cushitic is closer to Berber/Semitic than Egyptian is. Even from a surface level you can see that Berber/Semitic/Egyptian are the most related.

 

[Issa waraabe]

Darood = real, most daroods share a common ancestor 800 years ago corresponding to Shiekh Abdurahman converting local Dir population to Islam.

Isaaq = real, the original haplogroup of Isaaq was T-M184. Ciidagalle and Habar Yoonis have their own subclade mutation that dates back to 750 years ago around the time of Shiekh Isaaq converting the Magaadle Dir to Islam.

Dir = real, all subclans carry high percentages of T-M184.

Conclusion, Abdurahman and Isaaq were very likely Somali men, not Arab and their clans are real.

lmfao darood and isaaq convert Dir to islam , mate you taking the piss. stop insulting everyone's intelligence

 

[Apollo]

Berber and Semitic are closer - and they are closer to Cushitic.

Egyptian is very distantly removed from Berber/Semitic. It is closest to Chadic.

Egyptian gained most of its Semitic and Berber influences due to Libyan and Semitic migrations and language shifting.

I think the pre-Egyptian Lower Egyptians were maybe speaking some Berber/Semitic related language - but whatever they spoke, they were later Egyptianized by Saharan nomadic proto-Egyptians that split from early Chadics.

Any Z183 specialist know the tribal identities of the Qatari Z813 cluster? or the Saudi ones? are they only Hubaysh or are there Bani Tamim under the Somali subclade?

Isn't it more like this?:

Berber and Chadic have some kind of 'recent' linguistic relationship (recent in anthro terms).

Egyptian and Semitic have some kind of more deeply/ancient relationship.

Cushitic and Omotic diverged from all other Afro-Asiatic languages early on.

The above is solely based on linguistic studies (nothing about genomes).

 

[Prince Abubu]

Isn't it more like this?:

Berber and Chadic have some kind of 'recent' linguistic relationship (recent in anthro terms).

Egyptian and Semitic have some kind of more deeply/ancient relationship.

Cushitic and Omotic diverged from all other Afro-Asiatic languages early on.

The above is solely based on linguistic studies (nothing about genomes).

Yeah, according to Christopher Ehret, one of the foremost experts on Afro-Asiatic languages, Omotic splits first. Then Cushitic split;