The 18 pre-civil war regions

[Karim]

It sets a precedence also 'MJ power' has a nice ring to it

That's right. Either follow my lead or f*ck off. No third option on the table.

 

[Von]

That's right. Either follow my lead or f*ck off. No third option on the table.

Follow your lead? What MJ are you tho

 

[Karim]

Follow your lead? What MJ are you tho

I'm Rer Gaalkacyo Omar Mohamud Abdi ciise. What's your HG sub clan?!

 

[Von]

I'm Rer Gaalkacyo Omar Mohamud Abdi ciise. What's your HG sub clan?!

Nope, not HG

 

[Karim]

Nope, not HG

What's your clan then?!

 

[nine]

Here is an older map. @Boqor Quark Boqor Cisman @Crow @AarLibaax @Karim

The 18 provinces is better than the older ones we early see that.

 

[BankaTuyo]

Splitting Mudug in two is the only solution

What about the domino effect this creates for the rest of the country, do you want Sanaag to be split into three or Togdheer and Sool being split into two. where does it stop? do clans/tribes have clear demarcations in Somalia?.... me thinks we should abandon this issue for the time being and wait for a decent (strong) government whether Federal or Central to decide and enforce upon this thorny issue in the future.!

 

[whitehartlane]

What about the domino effect this creates for the rest of the country, do you want Sanaag to be split into three or Togdheer and Sool being split into two. where does it stop? do clans/tribes have clear demarcations in Somalia?.... me thinks we should abandon this issue for the time being and wait for a decent (strong) government whether Federal or Central to decide and enforce upon this thorny issue in the future.!

Horta are you bipolar.. the OP didn't focus his thread in splitting Mudug..but the entire country..

The current borders do not reflect the factual tribal borders..

He emphasises on long term peace for all, and uses the current autonomous regions as examples that if people within their tribes are recognised as the sole landowners and left to govern within their recognised lands peace could have a chance to prevail..

You said sool iyo sanaag..
Yes some parts of those regions belong to one group of people and the other part belongs to one group of people..so let's shift those artificial lines to a more suitable area..

And we do tht for every region and with in every region..like the reoccurring wars between qarxajis iyo habar jeclo, we can have a Somali proper maps that recognise each square meter of the entire land..

A detailed map.. a small example is Bari, bari in its original form was massive with few different groups of people laying a claim to it with continues hit and run wars..since then Puntland has kind of sorted it out by cutting it in two and even then each group of people within the two have detailed map of their lands..tht has halted a lot of misconceptions between people..


Do we want peace? If no we continue this self destructive course of action

If yes, then I don't see why we can't partition the country according to tribal maps, so tht we can eliminate all misconceptions between a lot of people..a and finally have a country tht resembles us all ..

Why?

Because no Somali likes to be feeling dominated by another Somali affiliation..

 

[nine]

I believe Siyaad Barre drew these lines in such a way to cause conflict between clans.

How did you come to that conclusion?

 

[Hassan Garguute Buldanana]

Here is an older map. @Boqor Quark Boqor Cisman @Crow @AarLibaax @Karim

The 18 provinces is better than the older ones we early see that.

Migiurtinia

 

[Crow]

What about the domino effect this creates for the rest of the country, do you want Sanaag to be split into three or Togdheer and Sool being split into two. where does it stop? do clans/tribes have clear demarcations in Somalia?.... me thinks we should abandon this issue for the time being and wait for a decent (strong) government whether Federal or Central to decide and enforce upon this thorny issue in the future.!

HY lands, HJ, Dhulbahante, and Warsangeli should each be separate regions. Nothing good comes from causing confusion by putting enemy clans in one region.

Horta are you bipolar.. the OP didn't focus his thread in splitting Mudug..but the entire country..

The current borders do not reflect the factual tribal borders..

He emphasises on long term peace for all, and uses the current autonomous regions as examples that if people within their tribes are recognised as the sole landowners and left to govern within their recognised lands peace could have a chance to prevail..

You said sool iyo sanaag..
Yes some parts of those regions belong to one group of people and the other part belongs to one group of people..so let's shift those artificial lines to a more suitable area..

And we do tht for every region and with in every region..like the reoccurring wars between qarxajis iyo habar jeclo, we can have a Somali proper maps that recognise each square meter of the entire land..

A detailed map.. a small example is Bari, bari in its original form was massive with few different groups of people laying a claim to it with continues hit and run wars..since then Puntland has kind of sorted it out by cutting it in two and even then each group of people within the two have detailed map of their lands..tht has halted a lot of misconceptions between people..


Do we want peace? If no we continue this self destructive course of action

If yes, then I don't see why we can't partition the country according to tribal maps, so tht we can eliminate all misconceptions between a lot of people..a and finally have a country tht resembles us all ..

Why?

Because no Somali likes to be feeling dominated by another Somali affiliation..

Exactly!

How did you come to that conclusion?

He was a smart guy. Did you know that he appointed the first Garaad for Abdi Isse Omar Mohamud Majeerteen? Before that Omar Mohamud only had an Islaan who was from Reer Mahad. I'm sure he did stuff like that across the country to cause power struggles.

 

[BankaTuyo]

Horta are you bipolar

Wrong usage of the disorder to get your point across, There are plenty of other words to choose from that will more accurately express what you wanted to say, but then again am talking to someone who doesn't have the slightest clue of basic psychiatric references and terminology.

The current borders do not reflect the factual tribal borders..

There is no such thing as "Factual" tribal borders. it just shows your naivety when it comes to societal structure of Somalis. the vast majority of our people have been/are nomads with no permanent residence, there is no definite tribal border demarcating one gorp of people from the other, they all traverse and intermingle with each other, one isolated village deep in the "border" of one "group" and Vise Versa.

Even if you drew an imaginary squiggly lines of tribal demarcations -- with many isolated warring islands-- who is to say that tribe X's many subdivisions (sub-clans) will petition for their own region/province. hence paving the way for the aforementioned domino effect until Somalia is one-man and one house demarcated kind of country.

Yes some parts of those regions belong to one group of people and the other part belongs to one group of people..so let's shift those artificial lines to a more suitable area

can you elaborate on how a "more suitable area" will look like, with pragmatic examples? i dare you?

.since then Puntland has kind of sorted it out by cutting it in two

Bari is still Bari and one of the 18 regions of Somalia, can you show me on the map where are those divisions you are talking about?

Because no Somali likes to be feeling dominated by another Somali affiliation

You are so right in this statement that you shoot yourself in the foot thereby rendering you whole argument moot.! Where does the division of tribes end? every Qabiil have countless numerous Jifos, so where does the devolving of tribal lineage to create a self governing area end? who rules the Cad-Cad people or do they get their own region, who rules Madowwayne? and so on.

 

[nine]

HY lands, HJ, Dhulbahante, and Warsangeli should each be separate regions. Nothing good comes from causing confusion by putting enemy clans in one region.

Exactly!

He was a smart guy. Did you know that he appointed the first Garaad for Abdi Isse Omar Mohamud Majeerteen? Before that Omar Mohamud only had an Islaan who was from Reer Mahad. I'm sure he did stuff like that across the country to cause power struggles.

If he didn't break up the central region then you central MJs would be from a Hawiye dominated Gobol from Gaalkacyo southern Galgaduud.

Dhulbahantes and Warsangelis and northern Dirs would be from Isaaq dominated Gobol(s).

 

[Crow]

If he didn't break up the central region then you central MJs would be from a Hawiye dominated Gobol from Gaalkacyo southern Galgaduud.

Dhulbahantes and Warsangelis and northern Dirs would be from a Isaaq dominated Gobol(s).

I agree that the old one was way worse but the current map is far from ideal and still has a lot of problems.

 

[BankaTuyo]

HY lands, HJ, Dhulbahante, and Warsangeli should each be separate regions

what if a subclan of any of the clans you mentioned wanted not to be ruled by their larger clan and opt-out by creating their own region.?

 

[nine]

I agree that the old one was way worse but the current map is far from ideal and still has a lot of problems.

I agree too. Changes are needed. Isaaq turf in Sanaag coould be "East Sanaag Region" and Harti turf could be "West Sanaag Region".
PL parts of Mudug could be named "North Mudug Region" and the rest as "South Mudug Region".

 

[Crow]

Bari is still Bari and one of the 18 regions of Somalia, can you show me on the map where are those divisions you are talking about?

He's talking about this.

It adds 3 new regions in the north because it is the most diverse part of Puntland. I question the reasons for having Sanaag and Haylaan as two separate regions though I am sure there's a good reason behind it.

 

[nine]

It adds 3 new regions in the north because it is the most diverse part of Puntland. I question the reasons for having Sanaag and Haylaan as two separate regions though I am sure there's a good reason behind it.

What clans live in pre-91 Bari?

 

[Crow]

what if a subclan of any of the clans you mentioned wanted not to be ruled by their larger clan and opt-out by creating their own region.?

North Mudug includes Leelkase, Dir, Awrtable, and Omar Mohamud but none of us are entitled to our own region. We are historically friendly clans so we can share.

Occasionally a subsubclan tries to secede when they don't get their way politically but it's never serious and is always just a bargaining technique. We have used this system in Puntland for years and no subsubclan has actually campaigned for their own region. It's a proven system that works.

What clans live in pre-91 Bari?

 

[BankaTuyo]

We are historically friendly clans so we can share.

here is where you argument crumbles sxb, you cannot use clan dealings and judging from history to predict the future. uncertainty is the law of the land when it comes to tribal issues. how can you guarantee any of the entities you mentioned won't flip out some time in the future and demand their own region.