The Ajuraan- a view from the oral tradition

[Factz]

Just for fun, try reading this:

https://theculturetrip.com/middle-e...ne-of-the-greatest-shipbuilders-in-the-world/

Here's Why Omanis Are One of the Greatest Shipbuilders in the World


Muscat Port
The importance of Muscat as a sea port dates back to the first century, when it was discovered by Greek geographers who called it the “Hidden Port”. In the 9th-century, Muscat was the main port for all ships heading out of the Gulf to India, China and East Africa. As the link connecting the Mediterranean and the Indian Ocean, Muscat port was highlighted in many of the old maps of sea routes.

Try reading this for fun and Somalis have one of the worlds richest maritime history dating back in the 1st century too during the Somali city states (Barbara civilization).

 

[Grant]

Try reading this for fun and Somalis have one of the worlds richest maritime history dating back in the 1st century too during the Somali city states (Barbara civilization).

Linkless.

Read your own material.

Do you see anything there at all suggesting centralized authority? Indian ships brought the cinnamon and Roman ships took it away. Where were the Somali ships? Why would an Arab embargo have been punishment for Somali merchants?

 

[Factz]

Linkless.

Read your own material.

Do you see anything there at all suggesting centralized authority? Indian ships brought the cinnamon and Roman ships took it away. Where were the Somali ships? Why would an Arab embargo have been punishment for Somali merchants?

Who said centralized authority? They were independent city-states ruled by local tribes and it talks about Somali Beden ships having advantages and trading around the world. The Arabs tried to punish the Somali sailors but failed but it also debunks your lies about Arab Kingdoms ruling the Somali coast. Overall I was correct just like Ajuran and Geledi kingdoms.

 

[Grant]

The cinnamon trade was controlled by the Indo-Scythian kindom of Nambanus. Charabael of Himyar, the friend of Rome, did the shipping down the coast at the time of the Periplus. Nambanus shipped to the north coast, where Rome picked up much of its own cinnamon. Look at your old map that shows the trade. In the Periplus, Somalis used small boats and rafts to get cargoes to Himyarite ships across the Gulf of Aden. They did not have the organization or ships for long-distance trade. The ports were simple entrepots, collecting goods to be bought by foreign buyers.

https://books.google.com/books?id=Z...the Indo-Scythian kingdom of Nambanus&f=false

Read on from this link.

 

[Factz]

The cinnamon trade was controlled by the Indo-Scythian kindom of Nambanus. Charabael of Himyar, the friend of Rome, did the shipping down the coast at the time of the Periplus. Nambanus shipped to the north coast, where Rome picked up much of its own cinnamon. Look at your old map that shows the trade. In the Periplus, Somalis used small boats and rafts to get cargoes to Himyarite ships across the Gulf of Aden. They did not have the organization or ships for long-distance trade. The ports were simple entrepots, collecting goods to be bought by foreign buyers.

https://books.google.com/books?id=ZD1LDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=the+cinnamon+trade+and+the+Indo-Scythian+kingdom+of+Nambanus&source=bl&ots=8nxCZ7BRMQ&sig=faWzRLgs12DoPqGaD7B1ZRAOxGk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiv4cST4u3bAhUxLn0KHeqxB4oQ6AEIODAB#v=onepage&q=the cinnamon trade and the Indo-Scythian kingdom of Nambanus&f=false

Read on from this link.


View attachment 48535

Your source doesn't say anything about any foreign ruling the Somali city-states you liar. Just because a certain kingdom dominated in that aspect of trading doesn't mean you rule a state. You're just making shit up right now.

Remember Somalis had 13 city states each had Beden ships and they traded as far as Malaysia. Hafun was pretty impressive and is where Beden ship originated from.

You're historical revisionism doesn't work. Somalis have one of the richest maritime history in world whether you like it or not.

Check this trade routes Somalis had from 1000 to 1900 and between those times where Somali Kingdoms ruled these ports.

Somali maritime enterprise map

 

[Grant]

Your source doesn't say anything about any foreign ruling the Somali city-states you liar. Just because a certain kingdom dominated in that aspect of trading doesn't mean you rule a state. You're just making shit up right now.

Remember Somalis had 13 city states each had Beden ships and they traded as far as Malaysia. Hafun was pretty impressive and is where Beden ship originated from.

You're historical revisionism doesn't work. Somalis have one of the richest maritime history in world whether you like it or not.

Check this trade routes Somalis had from 1000 to 1900 and between those times where Somali Kingdoms ruled these ports.

Somali maritime enterprise map

This is what your link produces. Expand it to read the bottom right. East coast in yellow is Himyar. North coast in gray is the Indo-Scythian kingdom of Nambanus.

Somebody has been doing some serious "editing"with the rest of that. Somalis didn't have ships until Hafun.

 

[Factz]

This is what your link produces. Expand it to read the bottom right. East coast in yellow is Himyar. North coast in gray is the Indo-Scythian kingdom of Nambanus.

Somebody has been doing some serious "editing"with the rest of that. Somalis didn't have ships until Hafun.

I didn't post any link you liar. Your own map could be talking about Somali city-states selling spices and gold, doesn't mean anything.

I've already given you the Chinese version on Somali city-states that they had 13 city-states that were governed by local tribes and were independent and claimed supremacy one another. Each competed each other for trade meaning they had ships to trade around the world. They also had a strong standing army with each city-state had 20 thousand troops well armoured, well equipped with weapons and horses.

Show me a source where it says Somali city-states were ruled by foreigners or had no ships except for Hafun. If you fail to provide that then I suggest you shut up.

 

[Grant]

I didn't post any link you liar. Your own map could be talking about Somali city-states selling spices and gold, doesn't mean anything.

I've already given you the Chinese version on Somali city-states that they had 13 city-states that were governed by local tribes and were independent and claimed supremacy one another. Each competed each other for trade meaning they had ships to trade around the world. They also had a strong standing army with each city-state had 20 thousand troops well armoured, well equipped with weapons and horses.

Show me a source where it says Somali city-states were ruled by foreigners or had no ships except for Hafun. If you fail to provide that then I suggest you shut up.

Just laughable.

Your link, middle right-hand side of page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_history_of_Somalia

https://ancientsomali.wordpress.com/2011/09/11/800-ad-chinese-explorer-talks-of-horn-of-africa/

Text taken from:- Freeman Grenville: Selected Documents
-Esmond Bradley Martin:History of Malindi
-Duyvendak: China’s discovery of Africa
-Neville Chittick : East Africa and the Orient.
Also called Duan Chengshi

BERBERA

"The land of Po-pa-li (Bobali) is in the south-western Ocean. The people do not eat any of the five grains but they eat meat: more frequently even they pick a vein of one of their oxen, mix the blood with milk and eat it raw. They have no clothes, but they wrap around their waists a sheep’s skin which hangs down and covers them. Their women are clean and well behaved. The people of the country themselves kidnap them and sell them to strangers at prices many times more then they would fetch at home. The products of the country are ivory and “a-muat”(ambergris)(he is the first Chinese to mention it).
When Possu (Persian) traders wish to enter this country, they gather about them several thousand men and present them with strips of cloth. All, whether old or young, draw blood and swear an oath, and then only do they trade their goods.
From of old this country has not been subject to any foreign power. In fighting they use elephant’s tusks, ribs, and wild buffaloes’ horns as spears, and they have cuirasses and bows and arrows. They have twenty myriads of foot soldiers. The Arabs are continually making raids on them."

No foreign power controlled, but the foreigners just came and went. Still, Nambanus ruled when the Indo-Scythian fleet was in port. That Arabs were making continual raids does not imply a lot of local control.

 

[Factz]

Just laughable.

Your link, middle right-hand side of page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_history_of_Somalia


View attachment 48549

https://ancientsomali.wordpress.com/2011/09/11/800-ad-chinese-explorer-talks-of-horn-of-africa/

Text taken from:- Freeman Grenville: Selected Documents
-Esmond Bradley Martin:History of Malindi
-Duyvendak: China’s discovery of Africa
-Neville Chittick : East Africa and the Orient.
Also called Duan Chengshi

BERBERA

"The land of Po-pa-li (Bobali) is in the south-western Ocean. The people do not eat any of the five grains but they eat meat: more frequently even they pick a vein of one of their oxen, mix the blood with milk and eat it raw. They have no clothes, but they wrap around their waists a sheep’s skin which hangs down and covers them. Their women are clean and well behaved. The people of the country themselves kidnap them and sell them to strangers at prices many times more then they would fetch at home. The products of the country are ivory and “a-muat”(ambergris)(he is the first Chinese to mention it).
When Possu (Persian) traders wish to enter this country, they gather about them several thousand men and present them with strips of cloth. All, whether old or young, draw blood and swear an oath, and then only do they trade their goods.
From of old this country has not been subject to any foreign power. In fighting they use elephant’s tusks, ribs, and wild buffaloes’ horns as spears, and they have cuirasses and bows and arrows. They have twenty myriads of foot soldiers. The Arabs are continually making raids on them."

No foreign power controlled, but the foreigners just came and went. Still, Nambanus ruled when the Indo-Scythian fleet was in port. That Arabs were making continual raids does not imply a lot of local control.

There you go. I was right, no foreigners ever ruled the Somali city-states as they were independent. Your own source debunks your made up claims.


At the end of the day, Arabs and Somalis during the antiquity period had a very good relationship. There is no evidence of Arabs raiding Somalis but there is evidence of Somalis outpacing Arabs and threatening them since Arabs mostly depended on Somali crops and livestock produced by Somali nomads and farmers and which were later sold by Somali merchants.

Oh, and the blog is nonsense since it's not documented in actual sources. Somali city-states were one of the biggest contributors of silk trade and were wearing high quality of clothes. They were never naked nor eat raw meat, Somalis are traditionally nomads that eat cooked meat and they never sold slaves with each other as their Xeer system which pre-dates Islam forbids ethnic Somalis to enslave each other. According to Chinese scholars Berbera one of the Somali city-states mentioned Somalis selling slaves however Somalis were not among those slaves. They were mainly Nilotic.

Here is the silk trade map and as you can see Somalis were one of the biggest contributors of silk trade in the world.

 

[Grant]

There you go. I was right, no foreigners ever ruled the Somali city-states as they were independent. Your own source debunks your made up claims.


At the end of the day, Arabs and Somalis during the antiquity period had a very good relationship. There is no evidence of Arabs raiding Somalis but there is evidence of Somalis outpacing Arabs and threatening them since Arabs mostly depended on Somali crops and livestock produced by Somali nomads and farmers and which were later sold by Somali merchants.

Oh, and the blog is nonsense since it's not documented in actual sources. Somali city-states were one of the biggest contributors of silk trade and were wearing high quality of clothes. They were never naked nor eat raw meat, Somalis are traditionally nomads that eat cooked meat and they never sold slaves with each other as their Xeer system which pre-dates Islam forbids ethnic Somalis to enslave each other. According to Chinese scholars Berbera one of the Somali city-states mentioned Somalis selling slaves however Somalis were not among those slaves. They were mainly Nilotic.

Here is the silk trade map and as you can see Somalis were one of the biggest contributors of silk trade in the world.

You have clearly never gained the ability to comprehend. what you read. Furthermore, that "blog" was a scholarly translation of the 800 AD Chinese text, so you also can't evaluate your sources or note the egregious manner in which you misquoted it. Even you seem to realize the people the Chinese were describing were neither Muslim nor clan Somalis. The clans don't even form until the 12th-13th centuries.

 

[Factz]

You have clearly never gained the ability to comprehend. what you read. Furthermore, that "blog" was a scholarly translation of the 800 AD Chinese text, so you also can't evaluate your sources or note the egregious manner in which you misquoted it. Even you seem to realize the people the Chinese were describing were neither Muslim nor clan Somalis. The clans don't even form until the 12th-13th centuries.

Why are you repeating the same lies that I previously debunked? The Somali clans were mentioned in the 9th century by Al-Yaqubi. You just exposed yourself when you said foreigners ruled the Somali city states when your own sources say no foreigners ever ruled the Somali city states. I've given you the Chinese sources that didn't come from blogs backing every claim I made.

Today you've exposed yourself as someone who makes up crap and contradicts yourself.

 

[Grant]

Why are you repeating the same lies that I previously debunked? The Somali clans were mentioned in the 9th century by Al-Yaqubi. You just exposed yourself when you said foreigners ruled the Somali city states when your own sources say no foreigners ever ruled the Somali city states. I've given you the Chinese sources that didn't come from blogs backing every claim I made.

Today you've exposed yourself as someone who makes up crap and contradicts yourself.

No, he didn't and no, you didn't. Now go learn to read or get lost.

 

[Factz]

No, he didn't and no, you didn't. Now go learn to read or get lost.

At the end of the day I showed you sources that Ajuran had navy and controlled the southern Somali coast while you didn't provide sources to back up your lying claim. I even showed you a source where Ajuran established settlements in Mogadishu and that Mogadishu was recongnized as a province of Ajuran Empire. I've given you a source before about Somali clans being mentioned in the 9th century and showed you few kingdoms about them.

Your own blog says "No foreign power controlled," When it was talking about the Somali city states. You've shot yourself old man so it's best to stay silent.

You always ignore my sources but repeat your lies without showing evidence. I don't know why I am even arguing with a troll historical revisionist like you?

 

[James Dahl]

Ajuuraan history remains little known though I've done a lot of research on the Imamate. The Ajuuraan conquest of the south is one of the turning points of Somali history.

 

[Factz]

Ajuuraan history remains little known though I've done a lot of research on the Imamate. The Ajuuraan conquest of the south is one of the turning points of Somali history.

If you read my link Ajuran emerged in lower Shebelle during the 13th century and began dominating the Jubba and Shebelle valleys along with the southern Somali coast from Kismayo to Hobyo. Pretty interesting.

 

[James Dahl]

If you read my link Ajuran emerged in lower Shebelle during the 13th century and began dominating the Jubba and Shebelle valleys along with the southern Somali coast from Kismayo to Hobyo. Pretty interesting.

The Ajuuraan dynasty probably started around the year 1200, the abtirsi of a modern descendant of the imamate traces 25 generations to Imam Dayle, the first Imam, placing him around the year 1200. The same lineage traces the lifetime of Imam Cumar, the last Imam, 16 generations ago to the early to mid 1500s, so perhaps our timeline of the Ajuuraan is wrong (most timelines of the Darandoole destruction of the Ajuuraan is in the 1600s, but this implies the 1500s).

The first Hiraab imam also is 16 generations ago, the lifetime of the founder Yacquub, so the Hiraab Imamate probably immediately succeeded the Ajuuraan imamate and then there is a 100 year seperation between the defeat of the Ajuuraan by the Hiraab in the 1500s and the Hiraab conquest of Mogadishu from the Muzaffar in the 1600s. This would make sense as the story of the Hiraab conquest of Mogadishu makes no mention of the Ajuuraan.

 

[Factz]

The Ajuuraan dynasty probably started around the year 1200, the abtirsi of a modern descendant of the imamate traces 25 generations to Imam Dayle, the first Imam, placing him around the year 1200. The same lineage traces the lifetime of Imam Cumar, the last Imam, 16 generations ago to the early to mid 1500s, so perhaps our timeline of the Ajuuraan is wrong (most timelines of the Darandoole destruction of the Ajuuraan is in the 1600s, but this implies the 1500s).

The first Hiraab imam also is 16 generations ago, the lifetime of the founder Yacquub, so the Hiraab Imamate probably immediately succeeded the Ajuuraan imamate and then there is a 100 year seperation between the defeat of the Ajuuraan by the Hiraab in the 1500s and the Hiraab conquest of Mogadishu from the Muzaffar in the 1600s. This would make sense as the story of the Hiraab conquest of Mogadishu makes no mention of the Ajuuraan.

Ajuran ended in the late 17th century. They had internal problems around the late 16th century and those rebels were defeated by the Ajurans. Basically Hawiye were establishling more states but they were still vessel states of the Ajuran.

 

[James Dahl]

Well, the Ajuuraan still exist and have a Boqor now instead of an Imam, they're more of a southern phenomenon these days

 

[Grant]

The Ajuuraan dynasty probably started around the year 1200, the abtirsi of a modern descendant of the imamate traces 25 generations to Imam Dayle, the first Imam, placing him around the year 1200. The same lineage traces the lifetime of Imam Cumar, the last Imam, 16 generations ago to the early to mid 1500s, so perhaps our timeline of the Ajuuraan is wrong (most timelines of the Darandoole destruction of the Ajuuraan is in the 1600s, but this implies the 1500s).

The first Hiraab imam also is 16 generations ago, the lifetime of the founder Yacquub, so the Hiraab Imamate probably immediately succeeded the Ajuuraan imamate and then there is a 100 year seperation between the defeat of the Ajuuraan by the Hiraab in the 1500s and the Hiraab conquest of Mogadishu from the Muzaffar in the 1600s. This would make sense as the story of the Hiraab conquest of Mogadishu makes no mention of the Ajuuraan.

The Ajuraan are an integral part of this oral tradition, which is also the source for the 1624 date for the Abgal takekover of Mog.:

https://momenthistorysociety.wordpr...and-their-defeat-by-baadicadde-and-gaaljecel/


Ultimately, the people rose up against the tyranny of Ajuran rule. According to most accounts, the first to rebel were the pastoral Darandoolle whose descendants today live on the outskirts of Muqdisho and in the pasturelands north of it. Sometime between 1590 and 1625—the approximate dates appear to be corroborated by a Portuguese document dated 1624. These nomads ambushed and killed the Muzaffar governor of Muqdisho, who was an ally of the Ajuraan rulers. A few years later, these same Darandoolle challenged the authority of the Ajuraan imam directly.
{After entering Muqdisho, the Darandoolle quarrelled with the Ajuraan. They quarrelled over watering rights. The Ajuraan had decreed: “At the wells in our territory, the people known as Darandoolle and the other Hiraab cannot water their herds by day, but only at night.” … Then all the Darandoolle gathered in one place. The leaders decided to make war on the Ajuraan. They found the imam of the Ajuraan seated on a rock near a well called Ceel Cawl. They killed him with a sword. As they struck him with the sword, they split his body together with the rock on which he was seated. He died immediately and the Ajuraan migrated out of the country. In another variation of the story, a young Darandoolle warrior was born with a gold ring on his finger, a sign of his future preeminence. The Darandoolle then rallied around their young leader, who eventually assumed the title of imam of the Darandoolle and took up residence in Muqdisho).

 

[James Dahl]

Yeah that's the narrative from Cerulli but I think he's got the chronology wrong, the death of the Imam at Ceel Cawl seems to have taken place much earlier than the invasion of Mogadishu, a century or more.

There are two oral histories from the Hiraab oral tradition, the story of the death of the Imam of Ajuuraan at Ceel Cawl, and the story of the takeover of Mogadishu. Cerulli puts the Imam's death later in his chronology and the Mogadishu takeover earlier, but abtirsi tells a different story.

The story of killing the Imam of Ajuuraan at Ceel Cawl is the origin story of the Hiraab Imamate under the Yacquub dynasty, where the Darandoole (the predecessor of the Hiraab) gather together and make war on the Ajuuraan. In this story they are a subject people of the Ajuuraan who are persecuted by the Ajuuuraan leadership.

The story of the takeover of Mogadishu takes place much later on, a hundred years later, as the Hiraab take Mogadishu the great prize of Banaadir. This story does not mention Ajuuraan and the Hiraab are no longer a subject people but under their own leadership.

Clearly the two stories the Mogadishu story is of an ascendant, later kingdom and the Ceel Cawl story is of an earlier, subjugated people. The chronological order should be clear.