The importance of having a wali

[Kane]

Stay Away From This Sin ⚠️

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[Angelina]

What’s sad is that if her father was careless and didn’t get suspicious, redpillers like @Kane would blame a Muslim sister for marrying him since according to them it’s her fault for marrying him despite everyone in her family accept her wise father thinking it was a blessing.

It takes a father (a wise older man) to do background checks and do his due diligence. The biggest issue in the Somali community is that many fathers are careless and will give their daughters away just because he’s from the same qabil and or because he’s so and so’s son.

In order for many men to be on their best behavior and rise to be responsible men, they need to see that a girl has men in her family that will hold them accountable and will do background checks even going as far as seeing payslips, degrees you name it. Many men are liars and will lie to get what they want.

I know of a case of a girl that got engaged to a guy who lied about his whole profession, dad didn’t even do a background check and it only came out when the girl herself got suspicious and had to actively ask around since the man was from a completely different city. I know of many cases of men hiding other wives ect. Let’s be real, if the girl was naive and younger, the thought probably wouldn’t have occurred to her.

Somali fathers need to do better. I’ve not seen a lot that would try and get a man to bring in pay slips, ask him for health records. What’s sad is that If a Somali father was like this, young Somali men and their families would think he was mad and extreme and they would get angry since they’re so used to just marrying easily. In fact, I haven’t even seen a lot of Somali fathers properly assess the personality of the man tbh. They’re more interested in Qabil and the man’s parents rather than the actual man himself at times. They’ll go above and beyond to find out if he’s ‘Nasab’ but not to see if he has narc tendencies.

We are incredibly lacking in this department as a community.

 

[Rayaale]

What’s sad is that if her father was careless and didn’t get suspicious, redpillers like @Kane would blame a Muslim sister for marrying him since according to them it’s her fault for marrying him despite everyone in her family accept her wise father thinking it was a blessing.

It takes a father (a wise older man) to do background checks and do his due diligence. The biggest issue in the Somali community is that many fathers are careless and will give their daughters away just because he’s from the same qabil and or because he’s so and so’s son.

In order for many men to be on their best behavior and rise to be responsible men, they need to see that a girl has men in her family that will hold them accountable and will do background checks even going as far as seeing payslips, degrees you name it. Many men are liars and will lie to get what they want.

I know of a case of a girl that got engaged to a guy who lied about his whole profession, dad didn’t even do a background check and it only came out when the girl herself got suspicious and had to actively ask around since the man was from a completely different city. I know of many cases of men hiding other wives ect. Let’s be real, if the girl was naive and younger, the thought probably wouldn’t have occurred to her.

Somali fathers need to do better. I’ve not seen a lot that would try and get a man to bring in pay slips, ask him for health records. What’s sad is that If a Somali father was like this, young Somali men and their families would think he was mad and extreme and they would get angry since they’re so used to just marrying easily. In fact, I haven’t even seen a lot of Somali fathers properly assess the personality of the man tbh. They’re more interested in Qabil and the man’s parents rather than the actual man himself at times. They’ll go above and beyond to find out if he’s ‘Nasab’ but not to see if he has narc tendencies.

We are incredibly lacking in this department as a community.

You always find a way to bash Somali men

 

[Angelina]

You always find a way to bash Somali men

What I said is facts about our community. We do have an issue with Walis doing their job. If pointing this out feels like an attack then so be it. I wasn’t even seeing it as some sort of personal attack of Somali men more so just dads who are laid back and a lot of it is due to the culture and an observation I felt about how marriage outcomes in our community can be improved if we had a culture of Walis being thorough. At this point, you want me to lie or and not make a connection as to how Walis behave in our community.

Deep down you know for a fact what i said is true. When was the last time you heard about Somali abo asking for payslips and medical records? I’m sure it happens here and there but it isn’t common AT all.

So instead of taking everything personal since you’re not a Somali abo, but a young lad maybe you can take pointers as to how things can be done differently as a community.

 

[Rayaale]

What I said is facts about our community. We do have an issue with Walis doing their job. If pointing this out feels like an attack then so be it. I wasn’t even seeing it as some sort of personal attack of Somali men more so just dads who are laid back and a lot of it is due to the culture and an observation I felt about how marriage outcomes in our community can be improved if we had a culture of Walis being thorough. At this point, you want me to lie or and not make a connection as to how Walis behave in our community.

Deep down you know for a fact what i said is true. When was the last time you heard about Somali abo asking for payslips and medical records? I’m sure it happens here and there but it isn’t common AT all.

So instead of taking everything personal since you’re not a Somali abo, but a young lad maybe you can take pointers as to how things can be done differently as a community.

First of all I’m active in the Somali community in the country I live in,what you saying is just some mere lies,the Somali abos i know are all hardworking and honest people who raise their kids in a good way,most of the young Somali men are like that they all have jobs and are God fearing

 

[Angelina]

First of all I’m active in the Somali community in the country I live in,what you saying is just some mere lies,the Somali abos i know are all hardworking and honest people who raise their kids in a good way,most of the young Somali men are like that they all have jobs and are God fearing

When did I mention hard work or honesty? I’m talking about Walis asking for payslips and medical history.

This is the issue when one gets too emotional and can’t even understand the topic at hand. Show me where I said Somali fathers aren’t God fearing or hard working, show me? Unless English isn’t your first language, this is utterly embarrassing for you to be reacting this way.

I asked you a simple question, when was the last time you knew about a potential groom being asked for a payslip and medical check?

 

[Rayaale]

When did I mention hard work or honesty? I’m talking about Walis asking for payslips and medical history.

This is the issue when one gets too emotional and can’t even understand the topic at hand. Show me where I said Somali fathers aren’t God fearing or hard working, show me? Unless English isn’t your first language, this is utterly embarrassing for you to be reacting this way.

I asked you a simple question, when was the last time you knew about a potential groom being asked for a payslip and medical check?

Mental gymnastics,next you’ll say when was the last time you knew a potential groom being asked for if he can each 100 years and can go 3 months without eating food.

 

[Dooyo]

Medical reports, fertility tests, credit scores…. shouldn’t checking things like this be standard? With or without the Wali asking?

 

[Angelina]

Mental gymnastics,next you’ll say when was the last time you knew a potential groom being asked for if he can each 100 years and can go 3 months without eating food.

I asked you a simple question and you couldn’t answer. It’s a fact that asking for medical reports in the Somali community isn’t the norm and now you’re tugging at straws.

it wasn’t mental gymnastics since if you even bothered to read my post above that was literally what my original paragraph was about.

I’m sick and tired of illiterates who don’t even read but lash out. My whole original was about lack of medical reports and payslips and now you’re saying it’s mental gymnastics.

 

[Marsh]

What’s sad is that if her father was careless and didn’t get suspicious, redpillers like @Kane would blame a Muslim sister for marrying him since according to them it’s her fault for marrying him despite everyone in her family accept her wise father thinking it was a blessing.

It takes a father (a wise older man) to do background checks and do his due diligence. The biggest issue in the Somali community is that many fathers are careless and will give their daughters away just because he’s from the same qabil and or because he’s so and so’s son.

In order for many men to be on their best behavior and rise to be responsible men, they need to see that a girl has men in her family that will hold them accountable and will do background checks even going as far as seeing payslips, degrees you name it. Many men are liars and will lie to get what they want.

I know of a case of a girl that got engaged to a guy who lied about his whole profession, dad didn’t even do a background check and it only came out when the girl herself got suspicious and had to actively ask around since the man was from a completely different city. I know of many cases of men hiding other wives ect. Let’s be real, if the girl was naive and younger, the thought probably wouldn’t have occurred to her.

Somali fathers need to do better. I’ve not seen a lot that would try and get a man to bring in pay slips, ask him for health records. What’s sad is that If a Somali father was like this, young Somali men and their families would think he was mad and extreme and they would get angry since they’re so used to just marrying easily. In fact, I haven’t even seen a lot of Somali fathers properly assess the personality of the man tbh. They’re more interested in Qabil and the man’s parents rather than the actual man himself at times. They’ll go above and beyond to find out if he’s ‘Nasab’ but not to see if he has narc tendencies.

We are incredibly lacking in this department as a community.

@Kane what did you do to make her write 98 paragraphs about this video.

 

[LilBang]

@Kane what did you do to make her write 98 paragraphs about this video.

They haven’t been seeing eye to eye with each other for 2 years atp

 

[_Yusuf_]

@Kane what did you do to make her write 98 paragraphs about this video.

Her feminist gland release the “Man’s Fault” hormone into her blood stream. Then she used her brain to articulate the hormonal urge. It’s quite an impressive gland. It trigger every time the feminist brain recognizes a moment of accountability.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

What’s sad is that if her father was careless and didn’t get suspicious, redpillers like @Kane would blame a Muslim sister for marrying him since according to them it’s her fault for marrying him despite everyone in her family accept her wise father thinking it was a blessing.

It takes a father (a wise older man) to do background checks and do his due diligence. The biggest issue in the Somali community is that many fathers are careless and will give their daughters away just because he’s from the same qabil and or because he’s so and so’s son.

In order for many men to be on their best behavior and rise to be responsible men, they need to see that a girl has men in her family that will hold them accountable and will do background checks even going as far as seeing payslips, degrees you name it. Many men are liars and will lie to get what they want.

I know of a case of a girl that got engaged to a guy who lied about his whole profession, dad didn’t even do a background check and it only came out when the girl herself got suspicious and had to actively ask around since the man was from a completely different city. I know of many cases of men hiding other wives ect. Let’s be real, if the girl was naive and younger, the thought probably wouldn’t have occurred to her.

Somali fathers need to do better. I’ve not seen a lot that would try and get a man to bring in pay slips, ask him for health records. What’s sad is that If a Somali father was like this, young Somali men and their families would think he was mad and extreme and they would get angry since they’re so used to just marrying easily. In fact, I haven’t even seen a lot of Somali fathers properly assess the personality of the man tbh. They’re more interested in Qabil and the man’s parents rather than the actual man himself at times. They’ll go above and beyond to find out if he’s ‘Nasab’ but not to see if he has narc tendencies.

We are incredibly lacking in this department as a community.

You are raising critical, if very valid points, but let me see if I could hoist the knot to its rightful joint. See, our forefathers had tools to choose suitors for their daughters, or women in their families, qabiil being one of many requisites so as to vet the pool to arrive at a residual tuple, where the undesirables had been eliminated, you know using colander to siphon the whey from the curd, then begins the process of elimination from social standing to affordability to character to 'thiqah' to 'karti' to 'dadnimo' and the list goes on.

That was then. Then came urbanisation, modern times where elements of said traditions had been brought forward, more like sampled ( do bear in mind, not all 'good' elements of traditional tools had been adopted), however in modern lifestyle said traditions alone are insufficient. Check your argument to adopt new tools to buttress traditional ones to better support societal wellbeing. That is the nub of your argument, a commendable one at that. Let me further advance it a tad bit.​

​

Let us revise traditional tools to better fit our new lifestyle in the West by using 'qabiil' (less relevant now) as one of many, character, 'thiqah', 'karti', 'dadnimo', 'balwad li'i' plus other requisites incl. background checks i.e. medical, criminal, debt etc. In other words, a blend of the old with the new.

I think that is the thesis of your argument. Commendable, methinks.

Postscript:

Spoiler

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Food for thought.

 

[Angelina]

You are raising critical, if very valid points, but let me see if I could hoist the knot to its rightful joint. See, our forefathers had tools to choose suitors for their daughters, or women in their families, qabiil being one of many requisites so as to vet the pool to arrive at a residual tuple, where the undesirables had been eliminated, you know using colander to siphon the whey from the curd, then begins the process of elimination from social standing to affordability to character to 'thiqah' to 'karti' to 'dadnimo' and the list goes on.

Many Somalis of the past would marry their daughters outside of the qabil when needed to cement alliances and to decrease tribal discord. So our fathers of old didn’t use tribe in that way unless it was a tribe viewed as ‘less than’ like the Madhibaan and that’s steeped in prejudice rather than as a way to vet for daughters.

However, you’re right Karti was immensely important and some fathers would go as far as wanting 100 camels or a decent amount that could be afforded to make sure he’s a man of means. In the Meey, they had their way, in urban settings? Not so much.

As for the assessing the man’s kindness and whether he’d be a narc of abusive, I don’t historical groups cared as much. Women simply weren’t as valued or seen in such a way as we do now.

That was then. Then came urbanisation, modern times where elements of said traditions had been brought forward, more like sampled ( do bear in mind, not all 'good' elements of traditional tools had been adopted), however in modern lifestyle said traditions alone are insufficient. Check your argument to adopt new tools to buttress traditional ones to better support societal wellbeing. That is the nub of your argument, a commendable one at that. Let me further advance it a tad bit.​

​

Let us revise traditional tools to better fit our new lifestyle in the West by using 'qabiil' (less relevant now) as one of many, character, 'thiqah', 'karti', 'dadnimo', 'balwad li'i' plus other requisites incl. background checks i.e. medical, criminal, debt etc. In other words, a blend of the old with the new.

I think that is the thesis of your argument. Commendable, methinks.

Postscript:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Food for thought.

I highly doubt young educated career girls would have ‘none’ of that since they are known to stalk a potentials Instagram and Twitter account to see if he displays unusual behavior such as an inability to lower his gaze if he follows lots of women and indecent accounts and they do ask around subtlety as well . They’ll be more than happy to have a father or brother do the remaining leg work such as rep, medical and payslips. Women of this gen care about background checks and mostly call it ‘red flags’ especially the educated career ladies.

What you’re confusing is fathers actually finding husbands. Thats not part of our culture and the average Somali father including the daughter would bulk, you’re right. But fathers included since culturally, they want the man to come to them and propose to them and their daughter rather than the father having to ask men to marry his kid. It’s seen as devaluing culturally.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

Many Somalis of the past would marry their daughters outside of the qabil when needed to cement alliances and to decrease tribal discord. So our fathers of old didn’t use tribe in that way unless it was a tribe viewed as ‘less than’ like the Madhibaan and that’s steeped in prejudice rather than as a way to vet for daughters.

Actually they did, and in poetry, there are documented sagas.

However, you’re right Karti was immensely important and some fathers would go as far as wanting 100 camels or a decent amount that could be afforded to make sure he’s a man of means. In the Meey, they had their way, in urban settings? Not so much.

As for the assessing the man’s kindness and whether he’d be a narc of abusive, I don’t historical groups cared as much. Women simply weren’t as valued or seen in such a way as we do now.

We want to look at the culture and its traditions as the sum of the whole, imperfect, as it is man-made, and of course with flaws, transgressions, and gaps. Let me qualify: I am more familiar with certain parts of .So i.e. North, East, S Galbeed, and know nigh to naught about the South and its traditions, and could hardly speak of those.

As I understand it, even in cases where warring tribes would exchange women as a part of a peacekeeping treaty, it came with conditions, and was not a matter of here are the women, do as you may. To whom and what families women were to be married would be part of the agreement, and it would always be amongst the elites of clans. Case in point: Sayid and Islam Farah. Again, that might only apply to certain regions.

Postscript:
By the way, in nomadic tradition, there was no need for fathers to seek suitors for their daughters, for the families know each other and at birth would know whom their sons would marry from. Sons would then approach bride's father, mostly likely already with relations, through marriage if not by blood or geography, then groom's father and elders would approach bride's elders, and if and only after bride's father agreed, would a marriage take place. Of course, all of that changed post urbanisation.

I highly doubt young educated career girls would have ‘none’ of that since they are known to stalk a potentials Instagram and Twitter account to see if he displays unusual behavior such as an inability to lower his gaze if he follows lots of women and indecent accounts and they do ask around subtlety as well . They’ll be more than happy to have a father or brother do the remaining leg work such as rep, medical and payslips. Women of this gen care about background checks and mostly call it ‘red flags’ especially the educated career ladies.

What you’re confusing is fathers actually finding husbands. Thats not part of our culture and the average Somali father including the daughter would bulk, you’re right. But fathers included since culturally, they want the man to come to them and propose to them and their daughter rather than the father having to ask men to marry his kid. It’s seen as devaluing culturally.

Again, a conversation for another day.