The need to merge Islam and Somalinimo into ethnoreligious identity

[AIOPZ]

. We never had people wearing ninja tents, or telling people are gonna go to hell for certain haircuts, or that celebrating things like marriage in non-Salafi fashion is haram - as far as I know non-Salafi marriage celebrations, i.e. with music, are banned right now in Burco by self-appointed Salafi police.

So please educate yourself about what you're preaching before you start preaching nonsense. This version of Islam was created in the 18th century. It has neither historical nor scriptural basis.

My grandmother told me that her family never allowed for Somali dances and songs in her nomadic village. This was back in the '50s, way before Saudi Arabia had as much influence as it does now. Just because we were secularized in the 70s' by Siad Barre doesn't mean that music became suddenly halal. Music is haram, period.

“Anas ibn Malik related from the Prophet (SAW) that, “two cursed sounds are that of the musical instrument(mizmaar) played on the occasion of joy and grace, and the woeful wailing upon the occasion of adversity.”

“Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 69, Number 494: Narrated Abu ‘Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash’ari: that he heard the Prophet saying, “From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, ‘Return to us tomorrow.’ Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection.”

The Prophet (PBUH) was reported saying: “ Verily Allah Ta’ala has sent me as a guidance and as a mercy to the Believers and He has commanded me to destroy musical instruments” (Musnad Ahmad)."

 

[Samaalic Era]

Do you still not understand what this leads to ? It leads to negating the credibility and authenticity of Hadith itself, most importantly you'll be lying against the Prophet by accusing him of meeting people he has never interacted with. The Sahaba sacrificed alot for this deen and you want to negate their status all for what ? yaab

Your hatred of arabs is forcing you to change the deen of Allah to suit your own agendas.

You've also not answered my question regarding the position of Hadith since you replaced it by xeer.

That is just speculation. How will changing or somalifying arab names cause problems
Also with Xeer, it will serve as political constitution after it is modified and then Islamified. It will be massively different to its current form

 

[Samaalic Era]

@Apollo
With this idea, we can be Muslim but yet separate from Arabs by bypassing Arab history and focus on Somali contribution to Islam

 

[Samaalic Era]

@CaliTedesse
You are both Muslim and Somali at the same time
They come hand in hand

 

[Eisenstein]

Sxb go and read about somali history and the conflicts between different groups like qaadiriya, ahmediyya salixiyyah and you will come to understand that bulshada soomaliyeed was always divided among qabil and sect lines. It's not a modern phenomena as you are trying to portray it to be.


Are you implying that except for salafi's music is allowed in the other madhabs? How does accepting islam negate the status of the Sahaba ? Do you understand the significance they have in Islam ?

I find it strange that you don't complain about how somali culture and society has been affected by gaalo dhaqan ever since we became colonised ? why is that you show indifference to this ? Had your concern for somali dhaqan been noble you would've protected from any outside interference and not be biased towards one over another.

Salafism has somewhat become synonymous with anything one doesn't like the about the deen and on this website it's been used as a pretext to launch attacks against the deen. Do you belong to that group ? if yes then why don't you man up and state what you truly believe in ?

One of the very mosques I've been talking about is qaadiriya. People didn't have any reservation praying there before the Salafi propaganda came in. Now people have a phobia even going to the entrance because they constantly preach you will go to hell if you go to that mosque. It's absolutely laughable that you're trying to imply religious divisions like that existed beforehand. Also this has nothing to do with tribalism. You're now conflating two completely different issues. The rest of your post is irrelevant whataboutism and a laughable attempt to turn Salafis into victims that get blamed for everything. Your post is just full of empty sentences - I don't think you know anything about the effects and history of Salafism in Somalia.

 

[Eisenstein]

My grandmother told me that her family never allowed for Somali dances and songs in her nomadic village. This was back in the '50s, way before Saudi Arabia had as much influence as it does now. Just because we were secularized in the 70s' by Siad Barre doesn't mean that music became suddenly halal. Music is haram, period.

And just because it was illegal in your grandad's village, doesn't mean this was generally true across the country.
You appear to be saying that Music was banned or something before Siad Barre.

What kind of fake history have Salafis been teaching you. The cultural shift that happened after 1990 wasn't there in 40/50s. In fact it wasn't there in early 20th century either. It isn't just about music either. Anything in the Somali culture that fit with the Salafi ideals is shunned.

Also, use your own ideas and understanding of the religion. Stop running to Google and copying walls of texts. That's just another side effect of Salafism.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

That is just speculation. How will changing or somalifying arab names cause problems
Also with Xeer, it will serve as political constitution after it is modified and then Islamified. It will be massively different to its current form

This is what you said earlier

We take the hadith, only that we attribute it to Somali figure. This is essential. Deen is so powerful and is fatal when misused. My Solution does not change a single Law,Pillar or verse of Qur'an

The bold part implies that everything related to hadith from the chain of narrators to those who recorded it would now be somali and this change has a negative impact on the credibility of Hadith. Hadith are accurate historic records of what the Prophet SAW said and did throughout his prophethood. They give us detailed information about the Prophet's life and about all aspects of islam. Introducing changes to any part on how hadiths have been complied and passed down to us casts doubt on it's credibility and authenticity of it's content.

Are you also going to attribute to somalis how the Quran was passed down as well ? after all Sahaba were the same people who passed down both the Quran and Hadith to us.

Listen to the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Indeed, Allaah was pleased with the believers when they gave the Bay‘ah (pledge) to you (O Muhammad) under the tree, He knew what was in their hearts, and He sent down As‑Sakeenah (calmness and tranquillity) upon them, and He rewarded them with a near victory” [al-Fath 48:18]

Narrated `Imran bin Husain:

"Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, 'The best of my followers are those living in my generation (i.e. my contemporaries). and then those who will follow the latter" `Imran added, "I do not remember whether he mentioned two or three generations after his generation, then the Prophet (ﷺ) added, 'There will come after you, people who will bear witness without being asked to do so, and will be treacherous and untrustworthy, and they will vow and never fulfill their vows, and fatness will appear among them."

The companions of Muhammad SAW were the best of this ummah, the most righteous of heart and the deepest in knowledge, people whom Allaah chose to accompany His Prophet and establish His religion. They were both praised by Allah and the Prophet SAW yet you have issues with them ?what does that tell us about you ?


If you were willing to prioritise xeer over hadith ? where does that leave you ?


Walaal i sincerely hope that you reflect over what are you are doing as it'll only lead you to path that only deviates from the path towards Allah. Do not let hatred dictate your actions

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

One of the very mosques I've been talking about is qaadiriya. People didn't have any reservation praying there before the Salafi propaganda came in. Now people have a phobia even going to the entrance because they constantly preach you will go to hell if you go to that mosque. It's absolutely laughable that you're trying to imply religious divisions like that existed beforehand. Also this has nothing to do with tribalism. You're now conflating two completely different issues. The rest of your post is irrelevant whataboutism and a laughable attempt to turn Salafis into victims that get blamed for everything. Your post is just full of empty sentences - I don't think you know anything about the effects and history of Salafism in Somalia.

They did exist it's just that you are not willing to accept it as this goes against what you are convinced of just read about the issues between the Qadiriyyah and Salixihiyyah orders during the times of sh aweys baraawe and maxamed cabdille xasan. I only mentioned the point about qabil to indicate the types of divisions among bulshada soomaliyeed nothing else.

It's quite evident that you have issues with salafism as a whole and unlike you i'm not biased nor blinded to the point i ignore factual evidence that lies in front me. People who are a part of groups differ in their acceptance of the groups core teachings but most importantly in islam being a part of a group doesn't mean that one is in accordance with the teachings of islam.

In every group you will undoubtedly meet people who have varying beliefs and act in a certain way that may either be consistent or opposed to the core teachings of said group. As such it's better to judge people individually when you come across them. Islam dictates that we be just when judging people and this is a principle that i try to follow according to the best of my abilities.

Take me for instance, since childhood i only attended sufi dugsi's and my teachers despite following the sufi orders were different in their mannerisms and beliefs. From a young age i learnt to take whatever that was good and left what wasn't and this has been my approach ever since, granted it took time and effort to put it into practise but i did manage it through Allah's rahma.


What you stated above may or may not be the reality on the ground but this does not excuse you of blame shifting religious divisions among somalis to modern day salafi groups, it has always been there. This matter is a complex one and one needs to study it thoroughly before any conclusion is drawn.

 

[Samaalic Era]

This is what you said earlier



The bold part implies that everything related to hadith from the chain of narrators to those who recorded it would now be somali and this change has a negative impact on the credibility of Hadith. Hadith are accurate historic records of what the Prophet SAW said and did throughout his prophethood. They give us detailed information about the Prophet's life and about all aspects of islam. Introducing changes to any part on how hadiths have been complied and passed down to us casts doubt on it's credibility and authenticity of it's content.

Are you also going to attribute to somalis how the Quran was passed down as well ? after all Sahaba were the same people who passed down both the Quran and Hadith to us.

Listen to the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Indeed, Allaah was pleased with the believers when they gave the Bay‘ah (pledge) to you (O Muhammad) under the tree, He knew what was in their hearts, and He sent down As‑Sakeenah (calmness and tranquillity) upon them, and He rewarded them with a near victory” [al-Fath 48:18]

Narrated `Imran bin Husain:

"Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, 'The best of my followers are those living in my generation (i.e. my contemporaries). and then those who will follow the latter" `Imran added, "I do not remember whether he mentioned two or three generations after his generation, then the Prophet (ﷺ) added, 'There will come after you, people who will bear witness without being asked to do so, and will be treacherous and untrustworthy, and they will vow and never fulfill their vows, and fatness will appear among them."

The companions of Muhammad SAW were the best of this ummah, the most righteous of heart and the deepest in knowledge, people whom Allaah chose to accompany His Prophet and establish His religion. They were both praised by Allah and the Prophet SAW yet you have issues with them ?what does that tell us about you ?


If you were willing to prioritise xeer over hadith ? where does that leave you ?


Walaal i sincerely hope that you reflect over what are you are doing as it'll only lead you to path that only deviates from the path towards Allah. Do not let hatred dictate your actions

Your digging your own grave and failing to realise the serious threat we face. Our existence is at stake. The Arabs and Bantus will wipe us out if we do not get our act together.

As things stand, that is impossible when we are under the religious control of Arabs which has made us we and incompetent.

You are unable to see the reality on the ground. The Arabs mass raped persia after they conquered and sold their women in markets as far south as Aden and some to Somalia.

If you have any intellect and honor, you would see the importance of independancen in Deen and Leadership. The salafis believe only a Qurayshi can lead the Ummah.

I will oppose the enemies of people with whatever i can. May the day come In'sha'Allah that Muslim Somali army invades and enslaves the middle east

 

[AIOPZ]

And just because it was illegal in your grandad's village, doesn't mean this was generally true across the country.
You appear to be saying that Music was banned or something before Siad Barre.

What kind of fake history have Salafis been teaching you. The cultural shift that happened after 1990 wasn't there in 40/50s. In fact it wasn't there in early 20th century either. It isn't just about music either. Anything in the Somali culture that fit with the Salafi ideals is shunned.

Also, use your own ideas and understanding of the religion. Stop running to Google and copying walls of texts. That's just another side effect of Salafism.

1. I know that that wasn't the case for the rest of Somalia; I was just trying to point out that Islamic norms weren't completely foreign to Somalia before the '90s. Like thievery and prostitution, there's no doubt that it did exist and played a role in society--doesn't make it okay. Which brings me to my next point.

2. Music is haram. Those "walls of text" that I got are authentic hadiths narrated by the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) himself condemning music. Next time I'll make sure not to publish so many at once they don't overwhelm you.

 

[AIOPZ]

May the day come In'sha'Allah that Muslim Somali army invades and enslaves the middle east

That escalated quickly.

 

[Samaalic Era]

That escalated quickly.

It's either that or they come for us. It's like being between a rock and a hard place

 

[911]

Whats your beef with arabs? @Samaalic Era

 

[Samaalic Era]

Whats your beef with arabs? @Samaalic Era

Im in Somalia atm and compared to the last i was in the area, i didnt notice the predicament we face.

We are unable to amount to anything due to the influence and monoploy the Arabs have over us but that is just the start. We Somalis are by nature willingly to adopt foreign cultures and languages esp after 1991. The dangers that i speak of will not happen in a year or 2 but within an approximate timespan of 40 years.

Our weakness is made evident by the fact that Somalis in the diaspora(not all) have adopted either liberal or ghetto culture. This stems from a lack of identity and understanding of their history.

My problem is that our enemies are plotting and scheming while we remain ignorant of them. Our young ones are cannon fodder for UN in Somalia.

We need a religious revolution which will propel a revival. We then need to send preachers to other non-Arab muslim countries and make them adopt our school of thought

War with Arabs and Bantus is not a matter of if but when. We need to be ready to fight with a unified front

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Your digging your own grave and failing to realise the serious threat we face. Our existence is at stake. The Arabs and Bantus will wipe us out if we do not get our act together.

As things stand, that is impossible when we are under the religious control of Arabs which has made us we and incompetent.

You are unable to see the reality on the ground. The Arabs mass raped persia after they conquered and sold their women in markets as far south as Aden and some to Somalia.

If you have any intellect and honor, you would see the importance of independancen in Deen and Leadership. The salafis believe only a Qurayshi can lead the Ummah.

I will oppose the enemies of people with whatever i can. May the day come In'sha'Allah that Muslim Somali army invades and enslaves the middle east

What threat ??? how is it that when the arab caliphates who used to be more powerful than they're today day never invaded and tried to wipe us out ? Furthermore given the current predicament of bulshada soomaliyeed you're more at risk to be wiped out by a fellow somali from a different qabil more so than an arab or bantu and yet here you are telling us that we should be concerned with arabs iyo bantu. War riyada aad ku jirtid ka kac


War persia waxba igama qusaya ileen waagas gaalo bay ahayeen, aniguba dhowr dumark baan kaso adoonsan laha :siilaanyolaugh:


You speak of enemies yet adopt & suggest beliefs contrary to what qoomiyada soomaliyeed believe in , what do you think that makes you ?

I don't know what makes you believe that you're entitled to save and speak on behalf of somalis when you're promoting absurd beliefs that are contrary to our way of life.


War anaga ba waxaa aragnay !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Cigaal]

This merger will preserve Somalinimo while routing out the Arab scourge erroding our identity and language. We must even lie and alter early Islamic history and make sure that our conversion story is directly from the Prophet pbuh and not through the Sahaba. We must invent a story about the Somali language and its purity as well as establish,modify and Islamify Xeer to be Second after the Qur'an.
also we must invent Somali saints dating back to the Prophet pbuh and teach about them instead of the Caliphate as the true heirs of the Prophet and thus establish a new school of thought that is separate from Arabia and is Somali and then spread it to the world.

This is the only path left. Every nation has its own dirty secrets that must remain hidden

You want us to make up new Somali saints, make a new madhab and make up a false story of how we converted to Islam? I will have to disagree it's best for us to remain sunni, shafi'I, ashari and sufi (preferably qadiri).

 

[Samaalic Era]

You want us to make up new Somali saints, make a new madhab and make up a false story of how we converted to Islam? I will have to disagree it's best for us to remain sunni, shafi'I, ashari and sufi (preferably qadiri).

Tell me what part of my proposition that is kufr sxb. What im advocating is a necessity. Once a upon time, people claimed descent from Dawud pbuh then it was switched to Quraysh.

By not putting an emphasis on Somali history ,culture and lineage(not qabyalaad) , then expect our decline to continue

 

[Cigaal]

Tell me what part of my proposition that is kufr sxb. What im advocating is a necessity. Once a upon time, people claimed descent from Dawud pbuh then it was switched to Quraysh.

By not putting an emphasis on Somali history ,culture and lineage(not qabyalaad) , then expect our decline to continue

Not kufr but I just disagree. Why make a new madhab? Making up random saints is not a good thing. We have plenty of Somali sheikh in the past who could have been part of the awliya. We should talk about their life. You can put an emphasis on Somali culture and also remain sunni/shafi'is. The shafi'I madhab has proved itself to easily integrate to different cultures whether that's east Africa or south east Asia.

 

[HalimaJ]

After the death of the Prophet pbuh, Arabia apostated.
This period is known as the Ridda wars aka as the wars of apostasy

Walal, answer these questions

Is lying halal?

What does the deen say about making takfeer?

 

[Samaalic Era]

Walal, answer these questions

Is lying halal?

What does the deen say about making takfeer?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridda_wars
You don't even know that Arabia apostated after the Prophet pbuh.

Abu Bakr ra fought the Arab tribes in a bitter war