The One Who Believes In Secularism Is A Kafir - Shaykh Salih Al-Fawzan

[Omar del Sur]

Sorry im feeling rather tired. What im trying to understand is do you support democracy?

If not what does that make all muslim country that are Democratic and its citizens which btw the way somalia seem to be heading.

Im honestly just trying to be realistic and understand what you are advocating för.

I don't even think it's possible to make takfir on a country. Takfir is declaring a person to be a kaffir. How can a country be a Muslim or a kaffir?

A Muslim or a kaffir is a person. A country cannot literally be a Muslim or a kaffir.

If you want to discuss what makes a country dar-ul-Islam, that's a totally different topic.

As for democracy, of course I don't believe in democracy.

And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah. They follow not except assumption, and they are not but misjudging.

-Surah Al-An'Am 6:116

If you believe that, then you'd be crazy to be in favor of democracy.

 

[bluebird]

no offense but I noticed a lot of your topics related to islam are from a political/jurisprudence stand point...which is fine, but make sure you have balance between spirituality/rules (not saying if you do or don't just a general reminder) otherwise it could lead to burn out

 

[Omar del Sur]

no offense but I noticed a lot of your topics related to islam are from a political/jurisprudence stand point...which is fine, but make sure you have balance between spirituality/rules (not saying if you do or don't just a general reminder) otherwise it could lead to burn out

I am not a liberal. I don't regard rules as oppressive. I am in favor of order and I despise what I regard as chaos and anarchy. For some, rules and things like that might seem oppressive but I don't perceive things that way. That kind of thinking is alien to me. I want rules and order.

 

[Aurelian]

So the Muslim secular countries are full of kafirs

You are a kaffir and you are a kaffir, every one of you is a kaffir

 

[Omar del Sur]

So the Muslim secular countries are full of kafirs

This is a strawman. I live in a secular country. You think I'm accusing myself of being a kaffir?

Sheikh Fawzan doesn't say "the one who lives under a secular government is therefore a kaffir". That would be a totally different statement.

 

[Giftxo]

It did read history. Infact modern countries like Saudi still implements sharia.

I mean in current times. Saudi is btw a really bad example

 

[Lord]

This is a strawman. I live in a secular country. You think I'm accusing myself of being a kaffir?

Sheikh Fawzan doesn't say "the one who lives under a secular government is therefore a kaffir". That would be a totally different statement.

Just because you say its a strawman argument does not remove that fakt you live there. So does it make a kafir or not? and why havent you left the country. I mean whats taking you so long?

 

[manosi789]

to all those disgruntled western akhi akhi teenagers who never lived under sharia, i tell u this when u find urself under shariah law even the bastardized versions in muslim countries today, you will not like it one bit. I belive in secularism and secularism is what makes muslim countries self sufficient and highly advanced whether u guys want to admit it or not.

 

[Lord]

to all those disgruntled western akhi akhi teenagers who never lived under sharia, i tell u this when u find urself under shariah law even the bastardized versions in muslim countries today, you will not like it one bit. I belive in secularism and secularism is what makes muslim countries self sufficient and highly advanced whether u guys want to admit it or not.

They are traped in their fantasy world, their is no point really. Shit is like those damn crazy trump suporter and their delusional world view.

 

[al-Mu'tamid المعتمد]

to all those disgruntled western akhi akhi teenagers who never lived under sharia, i tell u this when u find urself under shariah law even the bastardized versions in muslim countries today, you will not like it one bit. I belive in secularism and secularism is what makes muslim countries self sufficient and highly advanced whether u guys want to admit it or not.

Give me a list of what's so special about a secularist country compared to a religious one.

 

[al-Mu'tamid المعتمد]

I mean in current times. Saudi is btw a really bad example

How is that a bad example?

 

[Giftxo]

How is that a bad example?

They dont really follow sharia law

 

[al-Mu'tamid المعتمد]

They dont really follow sharia law

Didn't really change much but they are becoming more and more secular. But you can look at it from 1900 to 1950s where they implented it.

 

[Giftxo]

Didn't really change much but they are becoming more and more secular. But you can look at it from 1900 to 1950s where they implented it.

Western countries used to be the same mostly. A lot of countries had a state religion and the government was still depended on religion at that time mostly everywhere around the world

 

[al-Mu'tamid المعتمد]

Western countries used to be the same mostly. A lot of countries had a state religion and the government was still depended on religion at that time mostly everywhere around the world

That's what I'm saying a country run by religious law isn't inferior to one who isn't. If you look at modern western countries all they really have is a more advanced use of technology, healthcare, education as well as some other benefits. Are these things forbidden in religious countries? No they are not. And yet they are comparing it to eachother which is just dumb. There are countries that are secularist and are terrible like India for example.

 

[bobsburger]

to all those disgruntled western akhi akhi teenagers who never lived under sharia, i tell u this when u find urself under shariah law even the bastardized versions in muslim countries today, you will not like it one bit. I belive in secularism and secularism is what makes muslim countries self sufficient and highly advanced whether u guys want to admit it or not.

Only wrongdoers and munafiqs hate sharia. For a muslim person we love it as it promotes good and forbids evil.

 

[manosi789]

Only wrongdoers and munafiqs hate sharia. For a muslim person we love it as it promotes good and forbids evil.

im sorrry bro , iused to belive like u adamantly, but shariah can never work in this world, u would have to be increasingly controllive to make sure people follow shariah,in the past it did but today you cannot control peopl and they will end up becoming more evil under shariah

 

[Invader]

I mean in current times. Saudi is btw a really bad example

No it isn’t it has the lowest crime rates in the whole flipping world ofc they’re a good example

 

[gbrlax3]

i do belive in liberal values and im a leftist is that unislamic?

 

[bobsburger]

im sorrry bro , iused to belive like u adamantly, but shariah can never work in this world, u would have to be increasingly controllive to make sure people follow shariah,in the past it did but today you cannot control peopl and they will end up becoming more evil under shariah

The people today and the people 1400 years ago are the same. Humans have not received an update so why change the law?